DIY_EFI Digest Monday, June 7 1999 Volume 04 : Number 342 In this issue: Re: Diff types RE: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) Re: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices Re: Injector geometry Re: metric to english conversion Re: Metric essay Re: 10,000 RPM Re: Metric essay Changing to digest? Re: 02 Sensors Re: 10,000 RPM Re: Metric essay Re: 10,000 RPM RE: Metric essay Re: 10,000 RPM Re: 10,000 RPM Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) Re: To Todd Re: Cast ironvs. Steel was Prowler V6 Re: Injectors RE: Cast ironvs. Steel was Prowler V6 Re: What mfg are GM eproms? No metric essay content Re: Cast ironvs. Steel was Prowler V6 Re: 10,000 RPM Re: Injectors Re: 10,000 RPM Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 08:00:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Ford Subject: Re: Diff types Previously, you (Frederic Breitwieser) wrote: > > it's hard to get a circle in ascii. The big problem with a hypoid gearset > > is the gears slide into mesh ( wasted friction) > > Actually, I had the same question and your ascii artwork illustrated > the point clearly. > glad to actually help some else on this list 8) > -- > > Frederic Breitwieser > Bridgeport CT 06606 > > 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental > 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy > 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos > 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) - -- Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 08:04:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Ford Subject: RE: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices this brings to mind a cool screw up I did, I reworked the suspension on a truck that is used 90% offroad. one of the side effects of the mods was that the roll center was above the cg. when you cornered the sensation was that you felt like you were in a boat. the toyota leaned in on curves. the downside was that it tipped over on road if you overcooked a corner. Previously, you (Michael Kasimirsky) wrote: > > > or straight line driving, most drivers don't call straight > > line stuff > > > real driving, corners are where the men are seperated from the boys > > > > Oh really now? So, you considering holding on for dear life at 300MPH > > behind 6000HP "boy stuff"? > > Either way, cars are for wankers. REAL men dress in leather > and drag their knees through the corners. Cars lean the wrong > way, unlike motorcycles. Anything that surrounds you with a > roll cage is "boy stuff" compared to throwing your bike into a > corner at 100+ mph, knee skimming over the pavement, while > you slide both tires at the same time. > > > > ( ducking for cover 8)) > > I'm right behind you.... :-) > > Michael Kasimirsky 1990 Yamaha FZR400 Superbike Racer > Loki Motorsports 1993 Kawasaki ZX1100D1 Streetbike Rider > FASTTRAX & WERA Expert #21 Sponsored by Loki Motorsports & Bridgestone > mtk@xxx.edu - -- Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 05:29:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Squash Subject: Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) Who needs a production V-8 to spin that fast anyways? Production V-8s are not meant for racing, and that is why you can't buy a production race car! Andy - --- Shannen Durphey wrote: > Bill Edgeworth wrote: > > > > "Frank/G.speed" wrote: > > > > > How about NHRA Pro Stock motors? 500 ci, 1300+ > hp, 800+ ft-lbs, > > > 9000+ rpm... naturally aspirated. > > > > > > > The original comment was that NO AMERICAN > PRODUCTION CAR CAME WITH A V8 > > THAT WAS MADE TO TURN 10,000 RPM. > > Sorry but I don't think you can go down (or ever > could) to your local > > Chev dealer and buy a car with a aluminum or > titanium rodded, jessel > > rocker geared engine with a knife edged 4340 crank > > You're changing what you're saying, methinks. > Production engines > aside, you're now implying that 10k can't be reached > without these > parts. Somebody's going to have to tell the little > old V-8 guys they > couldn't get their engines to rev. > > I'm not the expert. I'm just noticing a subtle > twist. I'm thinking > that there certainly must be engines that hit that > rpm without the > trick parts you mention. Maybe they're not V8s, but > given a small > enough bore and stroke, and small enough valves, and > the upper rpm > limits have to get pretty high. > > I wonder what was really available, depending on who > you were and who > your local Chevy dealer was. > Shannen > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 08:33:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Ford Subject: Re: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices Previously, you (Todd....!!) wrote: > OK, sounds like an all around GREAT alternative to a spool.... it is > > Better gas mileage, almost as strong, NUTHIN's stronger than a spool... > right? for road use yes ( offroad heavy equipment has a few tricks) > > Where does the air go into the rear gear area, and what creates the air > pressure? Some sorta pump, I assume? it looks like a air shock compressor, the actuator is in the diff > > What all rearends is this technology built to accomodate? > > May it be applied to an 8 3/4 or Dana 60, or even a Ford 9 incher? http://www.rockequipment.com/diff.htm > > Just wonderin..... > > Todd.... > > ------ > > Pat Ford wrote: > > > > Previously, you (C. Brooks) wrote: > > > That's a good question. I don't know but to put a little perspective on > > > this... > > > > > > One of the club members has a Toyota truck with a mild 383, TH350 tranny, > > > Dual Marlin crawler transfer case both with 4.7:1 gears, and Dana axles (60 > > > rear, 44 front) with 5.?:1 gearing, and 36" swampers. I've seen him use > > > (Abuse) this truck pretty hard. The final drive ratio in first gear low > > > range is well over 200:1. That's ALOT of torque multiplication, and he's > > > never had an ARB fail (YET!) > > > > they are strong > > > > > > > > Having the diff locked won't make any difference in mileage. > > > > it does, no road is straight enough and no 2 tires are exactly the same dia. > > if I lock the dif the top speed does down and the fuel just pours into the engine > > > > > > > > Charles Brooks > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Todd....!! > > > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > > > Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 8:20 PM > > > Subject: Re: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices > > > > > > > > > >Can ya do a W.O.T. launch with the button OFF, then turn it on in the > > > >middle of the launch, under FULL TORQUE? > > > > > > > >Just how strong is this unit? > > > > > > > >AND, would a car with one of these air posi's get better gas mileage > > > >with the posi OFF than it would with the air-posi on? > > > > > > > >Just wondrinnnnn......... > > > > > > > > > > > >LATER! > > > > > > > >Todd....!! > > > > > > > > > > > >Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > The type of posi is NOT dictated by the type of rear it's in or made > > > for. There are limited slip, Torsen and locking differentials made for the > > > Dana 60. If you want to know what type of unit is in the rear you'll have to > > > actually look at it. > > > >> > > > >> And this is not a sarcastic response, either :) > > > >> > > > >> I'd highly recommend an ARB airlocker for this rear. direct bolt in, > > > >> easy to control with a pushbutton, and totally open when needed. > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> > > > >> Frederic Breitwieser > > > >> Bridgeport CT 06606 > > > >> > > > >> 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental > > > >> 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy > > > >> 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos > > > >> 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com > > QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com > > (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews > > (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 > > - -- Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 05:41:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Squash Subject: Re: Injector geometry It seems to me that most if not all of these types of manifolds i have seen have the injectors mounted straight up. Andy - --- Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > I am ready to poke some holes for injectors in my > mopar 440 tunnel ram. > > My question is it appears that I will not be able > position the injectors > > to point directly at the back of the intake valve. > How important is > > this? The injectors are 36# Ford Motor sports > units. > > Ya, tunnel rams have very long, downward tubes. You > should try to > inject at the valve backs the best you can, but its > not mission > critical. You might consider milling the injector > boss holes on an > angle, to inject it into the airstream. I chose to > keep it real simple > and bore perpendicular to the valley plane, and > after testing the design > on the engine, its okay and I'm not really worried > about it. > > > However this will make for some difficult > machining in a tight spot. > > Machine from the intake ports upwards through the > runners on an angle... > then weld the bosses in, then grind enough of the > inside of the boss > away that the injector still seals good, yet is > slightly exposed > tip-wise. > > Honestly, Unless you are building a very high > performance engine, its > not the most critical thing in the world from what I > can tell with my > 383 stroker (431 cid). > > I used a streetmaster aluminum intake. > > http://www.xephic.dynip.com/dodge/dodge.html > > Off the left-handed menus, select "Engine" then > "383swap" then "EFI > Intake", and you can see what I ended up with. > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 08:43:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Ford Subject: Re: metric to english conversion Previously, you (Raymond C Drouillard) wrote: > Greg, > > Is your business ISO 9000 certified? :-) > > (My place of employment started going for it, but they started going for > TQM several years ago. I wonder what the next fad will be) read dilbert ( the comic) he knows 8) > > Ray > > > >Given all of the bureaucratic nonsense that ISO has come up with, I'm > just > >as glad for us to have a system of units that is insulated from idiotic > >French bureaucracy and "world" politics!! IMO , USS, SAE, and NPT > thread > >standards are generally better designs that ALL of the various DIN, JIS, > >French, and Italian metric thread junk. Also, the inch (and both > numerical > >and decimal fractions thereof) are VERY much more practical scale units > for > >machine work and tolerancing than mms. ever will be, thank you very > much. > > > >Regards, Greg > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] - -- Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 05:45:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Squash Subject: Re: Metric essay > >Every british/american conversion requires a > different factor - 16 oz to > >the pound, 12 inches to the foot, 660 feet to the > furlong, 2000 lb per ton, > >ad infinitum. The metric system converts by adding > or moving zeros - can't > >get much simpler. > > Great Mother of Pearl! I never realised how awfull > it is! Next time you need > to figure out how many furlongs per fortnight you > can do with a 50 hogshead > load let me know and I'll work it out for you. I > hate to see people suffer. > > Charlie Springer How many Rods is that? andy _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 05:54:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Squash Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM - --- xxalexx@xxx.com wrote: > Maybe Ferrari 308 and other xx8 ? but these not > pushrod. > Balance helps alot, I had Truimph with 820cc > Routt's jugs and Sifton valve > train using factory aluminium rods and ball bearing > crank. I gave all parts > that moved to a engine balancer (Shreeve Automotive > Keener,La) , did not have a > tach but ran very smooth within a very limited high > RPM range and shook to > pieces at all other speeds. > alex Why do you refuse to accept a high-revving American V-8? A friend of mine runs a small truck series in the midwest and he goes for 7500+ as optimum RPM on straights. That is with really minimal enginework, too. At least compared to your exotic, expensive ferrari engine. Andy _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:15:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Ford Subject: Re: Metric essay Previously, you (Fredrik Skog) wrote: > On Sat, 5 Jun 1999 Regnirps@xxx.com wrote: > snip > > And Fahrenheit....even the americans don't know how > it works. no? that was one of the first things covered in 1st year chemistry at Queens U. > Alot of people I have talked to on the internet don't know the > exact Fahrenheit for boiling water. varies with baro pressure >..and I don't blame them...there are > not logic whatsoever in the scale. there is if you drink or distill your own liquer > As far as precision goes you are allowed to use like 20.5 degrees, is that > too hard? > And about the kilo. You americans use that all the time. In car adds it > says 200k miles and I can buy it for 30k$. So I guess you know what it > means. > > You really have to come up with alot better arguments than this. > I do understand that it is very hard to change, and that it is expensive. > But don't start with this human body crap it is just ridiculous. > > The metric system is by far the most logic and easy to use system. the problem is that most americans don't like dividing by 10, 16 and 64 are better for them ( an excuse for needing a calculator) once again ducking and running for cover > > Just my opinion > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Student at the Department of Computing Science Umeå University > > Fredrik Skog E-mail: c95fsg@xxx.se > Taffelstråket 51 WWW: http://www.acc.umu.se/~skog > 903 53 Umeå Phone: +46-(0)90-136365 > Mobile: +46-(0)70-3041729 > - -- Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:30:29 -0400 From: Darryl Snover Subject: Changing to digest? Hi All, Love the conversations here, but is there a way (I probably should know already but....) to change to digest mode? (ie. what is the majordomo address and command set?) Best Regards, Darryl Snover Senior Programmer Technologies Plus, Inc. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 07:34:44 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: 02 Sensors >Industrial grade uego.......thanks for letting us know! >Espen. >How is egor doin these days? I too have heard this urban legend--but would almost lay odds that it was started by a Horiba lawyer just as likely as whichever meter mfgr Gar is talking about! Greg > > >> But there's also a current marketing/disinformation myth that one of the >> well-known US mfgs. of high end AFR meters has been promoting, which is >> that the stock Honda/NTK sensors are "not suitable for measuring rich >> AFR, and will only last a short time in this environment", ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 09:43:19 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM At 05:54 AM 6/7/99 -0700, you wrote: >Why do you refuse to accept a high-revving American >V-8? A friend of mine runs a small truck series in >the midwest and he goes for 7500+ as optimum RPM on >straights. That is with really minimal enginework, >too. At least compared to your exotic, expensive >ferrari engine. I think the original poster stated there were no Factory production engines (Bone stock as from the dealership ) that would turn 10,000RPM. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:52:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Ford Subject: Re: Metric essay Previously, you (ken mayer) wrote: > > > Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 22:46:04 EDT > > From: Regnirps@xxx.com > > > > In a message dated 6/5/99 6:09:23 AM, c95fsg@xxx.se writes: > > [snip] > > >And Fahrenheit....even the americans don't know how > > >it works. Alot of people I have talked to on the internet don't know the > > >exact Fahrenheit for boiling water...and I don't blame them...there are > > >not logic whatsoever in the scale. > > > > You and they found Fahrenheit confusing because you are making a wrong > > assumption. Centigrade is based on freezing and boiling of WATER. Fahrenheit > > is based on extremes as felt by the human body! 100 is HOT and 0 is COLD. > > Freezing water is no big deal for a woolen clad Northern European, but 0 is > > uncomfortably cold. > > When Mr. Fahrenheit invented the thermometer, he had marked some arbitrary > scale on it. When he placed it into icewater, it read 32. When he placed > it in his wife's mouth, it read 98.7. I'm NOT saying my wife is cold but she read 37.6 8)) >When he placed it into boiling > water, it read 212. It has nothing to do with feeling hot or cold. The > scale is entirely arbitrary. Close but no cigar 0 degree f is the freezing point of acohol (sp?) 100F is the boiling point of acohol > > Ken > :-) > - -- Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 08:33:52 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM What about all the CAMMER engines, which didn't have the pushrods, but a cam on top of the heads pushing directly on the rockers or valves themselves? Just a thought... Todd.... - ------- Bill Edgeworth wrote: > > > > > > > Maybe a couple years ago. Some of the incar footage has shown over 9K in > > race conditions, and I'd wager, that in qualifing, they are close if not at > > 10K. > > Grumpy > > > > > > Yes, I have seen this too. I was just trying to make the point that if this is > the limit for a 30 thousand dollar engine do people actually think a production > engine can do the same thing? > To my knowledge the 2 highest revving factory V8's were the chev 302 produced > in the 69 Z-28 and the Ford Boss 302 Mustang (somebody correct me If I am > wrong) > And there was no way that Either could hit 10k without valve float (long before > 10k) or breaking something. > > Bill Edgeworth ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 11:19:33 -0300 From: "BUTLER, Tom" Subject: RE: Metric essay Not so...If memory serves, the zero point was set by the freezing point of a saturated salt solution. Tom Butler > When Mr. Fahrenheit invented the thermometer, he had marked some arbitrary > scale on it. When he placed it into icewater, it read 32. When he placed > it in his wife's mouth, it read 98.7. When he placed it into boiling > water, it read 212. It has nothing to do with feeling hot or cold. The > scale is entirely arbitrary. > > Ken > :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:31:23 -0400 (EDT) From: "Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020" Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM > > What about all the CAMMER engines, which didn't have the pushrods, but a > cam on top of the heads pushing directly on the rockers or valves > themselves? > > Just a thought... factory 7-7500 bluprinted 9000 bottom emds would blow over that Clive ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 07:30:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Squash Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM - --- "David A. Cooley" wrote: > At 05:54 AM 6/7/99 -0700, you wrote: > I think the original poster stated there were no > Factory production engines > (Bone stock as from the dealership ) that would turn > 10,000RPM. I know that. Why is anyone complaining about this anyways? Production American V-8s are know for reliable low-end power, in mostly heavy autos. Who does have a production V-8 that turns a zillion RPM. Andy _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 07:45:42 -0700 From: Bill Edgeworth Subject: Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) Shannen Durphey wrote: > > You're changing what you're saying, methinks. Production engines > aside, you're now implying that 10k can't be reached without these > parts. Somebody's going to have to tell the little old V-8 guys they > couldn't get their engines to rev. > > I'm not the expert. I'm just noticing a subtle twist. I'm thinking > that there certainly must be engines that hit that rpm without the > trick parts you mention. Maybe they're not V8s, but given a small > enough bore and stroke, and small enough valves, and the upper rpm > limits have to get pretty high. > > I wonder what was really available, depending on who you were and who > your local Chevy dealer was. > Shannen No, I am not changing what I am saying. Maybe we are not on the same wavelength. All that I have been trying to say is that contrary to some peoples beliefs you could never go down to your Ford, Chevy or Mopar dealer and drive a production stock vehicle off the lot that would turn 10,000 rpm (with a V8). Exotics like over head cammed Ferraris yes, but not your typical push rod V8. I have seen many V8's go well over 10k however they were heavily modified usually destroked race engines not a engine made on a production line for $1000 I'm not trying to be a jerk about this. If such a vehicle existed I would have bought one! Then I would not need a broom to sweep the pieces off the road after a fun drive :) Bill Edgeworth ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 09:03:57 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: To Todd Thanks for that info! Will use, maybe when I do the VW 'Buggy' rebody in the fairly near future... Will be usin the Bass boat type of metallic! HUGE FLAKES! LATER! Todd....!! Programmer wrote: > > I've been painting since the Basecoat Clearcoat systems ever came > out...there's actually no hardener in any BCCC system "base" paint. The > hardener/catalyst is always in the clear. There's always a minimum and > maximum "open" stage to where the base will accept a clearcoat bond--without > scuffing and recoating with base. You cannot sand basecoat metallics and > then shoot "clearcoat" over them if you've gone beyond the open stage...the > finish will look pretty bad. If you ever have to go this route, you need to > sand (600-800 wet and dry or scotchbrite gray), reshoot the base to lay the > metallics down properly again-- wait your minimum hand slick time, and shoot > the clear in medium wet--or whatever the paint manufacturer suggests. I > prefer Sikkens, but that's because I've never had any delamination with > their products--unlike some others over time... > > Lyndon IPTECH (Autobody and Automotives) > -----Original Message----- > From: Shannen Durphey > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 11:18 PM > Subject: Re: To Todd > > >Gary Derian wrote: > >> > >> The basecoat/clearcoat paints I have used require the clear to be painted > >> within 24 hrs of the base. This made painting flames a 24 hr marathon. > >> Paint yellow base, wait 4 hrs, mask flames for 8 hrs, paint red base, > >> unmask, paint clear. > > > >> > >> The base and clear coats chemically bond together. If you wait a week, > you > >> have to sand the whole thing and reapply some more base. If you are just > >> painting some clear on top of regular paint, you still have to sand it > >> before the clear otherwise the clear won't stick. > >> > >> The solvents in paint should flash off between coats but the paint should > >> not cure. > > > >Might want to look into Standox paints. There's no hardener in the > >base coat. The base dries, but doesn't harden in the booth. > >Shannen > >> > >> Gary Derian > >> > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 09:01:24 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Cast ironvs. Steel was Prowler V6 Hello Michael, You have just stated the total opposite of what I believed was true about cast iron vs. steel... You stated: "the excess carbon present in cast iron compared to steel, etc." Then ya stated that: "It's the reason that machine tools are all made from cast iron, not steel." The BASIC FUNDAMENTAL difference 'tween Cast IRON and STEEL is that Steel is merely cast iron with CARBON added to the molten Cast Iron.... You stated the opposite, hopefully it was a type-o or the like? ALSO Steel is stronger than cast iron, period, I'll use a steel pan against a cast iron pan in a fight anytime.... But BE FOREWARNED - Don't EVER use one of those $1 Store fryin pans against ANY sorta cast iron pan, you WILL most DEFINITELY LOSE! LOL... LATER! Todd.... - ------------ Michael Kasimirsky wrote: > > > All points well taken but a few contradictions. If the > > steel part is so > > much stiffer why does it have a harder time tampening tortional vibes. > > Ductile essentially means "bendable without breaking." It is > > for this reason > > It's a difference between steel and cast iron and the physical > properties of the materials themselves. It has to do with the > grain structures of the materials, the excess carbon present > in cast iron compared to steel, etc. It's the reason that machine > tools are all made from cast iron, not steel. If you want a better > explanation than that, consult a materials science textbook. :-) > > Michael Kasimirsky 1990 Yamaha FZR400 Superbike Racer > Loki Motorsports 1993 Kawasaki ZX1100D1 Streetbike Rider > FASTTRAX & WERA Expert #21 Sponsored by Loki Motorsports & Bridgestone > mtk@xxx.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 09:45:59 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Injectors Hi Bruce, Just ran across this e-mail again and just wanted to ask ya what the BIGGEST injector flow you've ever heard of is? My buddy said he tried runnin like 7X. lb/hr injectors in his OVER souped up Shelby Charger Turbo, but he couldn't get it to idle without MAJOR jolting of the car(And his neck).. So he put in some 5X. lb/hr injectors which gave him good idle and pretty good top end wihtout goin too lean... Will post some of what he's done to his turbo, f.i. shelby charger... He's a Jet Mac here at Hobby Airport and he's been dinkin with his lil blown 4 banger's for over 10 years... And he has come a LONG way baby! He used to have a volume switch to adjust his peak boost, NOW he says it all done by the computer... Lemme know! LATER! Todd... - --------- Bruce Plecan wrote: > > | > > Try these guys: > | > > Linder Technical Services (317-487-1868 or www.lindertech.com) > > I've talked to Jim, and bothered his staff with questions from time to time, > and they seem to be nice folks. I bought a scanner from him, and it was as > advertised. > I've used reconditioned injectors (thou not his), and have had good > results. > Grumpy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 11:25:41 -0400 From: Michael Kasimirsky Subject: RE: Cast ironvs. Steel was Prowler V6 > You have just stated the total opposite of what I believed was true > about cast iron vs. steel... > > You stated: > "the excess carbon present in cast iron compared to steel, etc." Yes, I did and it's true. > Then ya stated that: > "It's the reason that machine tools are all made from cast iron, not > steel." Yes, I did, and yes, they are. Cast iron is much better at vibration damping than steel. > The BASIC FUNDAMENTAL difference 'tween Cast IRON and STEEL is that > Steel is merely cast iron with CARBON added to the molten > Cast Iron.... No, that's not the case at all. You're thinking cast iron is just elemental iron, which it isn't. Steel is iron and carbon (and other stuff, depending on the steel) with a carbon content below the eutectic point (I think that's the correct point, but I can't remember offhand) while cast iron is iron and carbon with a carbon content above this point. > You stated the opposite, hopefully it was a type-o or the like? Nope. > ALSO Steel is stronger than cast iron, period, I'll use a steel pan > against a cast iron pan in a fight anytime.... Not necessarily. It sounds like you're confusing fracture resistance with strength. Consult a materials science text if you want the full scoop. Mine are at home so I don't have a reference handy, and I don't feel like typing that much anyway. Not to mention it has zero to do with DIY-EFI. Michael Kasimirsky 1990 Yamaha FZR400 Superbike Racer Loki Motorsports 1993 Kawasaki ZX1100D1 Streetbike Rider FASTTRAX & WERA Expert #21 Sponsored by Loki Motorsports & Bridgestone mtk@xxx.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 10:35:27 -0500 From: "Robert W. Hughes" Subject: Re: What mfg are GM eproms? No metric essay content Some of the proms (TI is good about this) have the part number and manufacturer's name etched on the substrate. Use a 50 power microscope to look through the window and look around. Otherwise, to read the prom I just select generic 27512 and read it in. If the data at $8000 is a repeat of the data at $0000 then it is a 27256. If the data at $4000 is a repeat of the data at $0000 then it is a 27128. If the data at $2000 is a repeat of the data at $0000 then it is a 2764. If the data at $1000 is a repeat of the data at $0000 then it is a 2732. Use the generic correct length chip selection at 12.5v to program. If there are a lot of errors, then use a higher voltage. Incidentally, plugging the prom into anything upside down will get you one little bright white flash in the window. - -- Robert W. Hughes (Bob) BackYard Engineering Houston, Texas rwhughe@xxx.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 12:12:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Ford Subject: Re: Cast ironvs. Steel was Prowler V6 Previously, you (Todd....!!) wrote: > Hello Michael, > > > ALSO Steel is stronger than cast iron, period, I'll use a steel pan > against a cast iron pan in a fight anytime.... I'll take the cast iron one, it's heavier and hurts more when it hits you 8)) > > But BE FOREWARNED - Don't EVER use one of those $1 Store fryin pans > against ANY sorta cast iron pan, you WILL most DEFINITELY LOSE! LOL... > > LATER! > > Todd.... > > - -- Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 12:28:24 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM > >I know that. Why is anyone complaining about this >anyways? Production American V-8s are know for Have no clue... >reliable low-end power, in mostly heavy autos. Who >does have a production V-8 that turns a zillion RPM. No one that I know of... Highest factory redline I've seen on any newer V8 is between 5500 and 6500... Sure would sound cool to hear open exhaust on a healthy V8 at 10,000RPM! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 12:32:14 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: Injectors >Hi Bruce, > >Just ran across this e-mail again and just wanted to ask ya what the >BIGGEST injector flow you've ever heard of is? > >My buddy said he tried runnin like 7X. lb/hr injectors in his OVER >souped up Shelby Charger Turbo, but he couldn't get it to idle without >MAJOR jolting of the car(And his neck).. So he put in some 5X. lb/hr >injectors which gave him good idle and pretty good top end wihtout goin >too lean... I have heard of 100 lb/hr injectors, but never known anyone to use them... there are some people in the Buick GN area that have run 82 lb/hr injectors with minimal degradation in Idle quality... but by the time they run an injector that big, they have a heavily modified motor that idles at 1200 or so RPM anyway... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 12:47:49 -0400 From: Wen Yen Chan Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM On Mon, 7 Jun 1999, Squash wrote: > --- "David A. Cooley" wrote: > > At 05:54 AM 6/7/99 -0700, you wrote: > > > I think the original poster stated there were no > > Factory production engines > > (Bone stock as from the dealership ) that would turn > > 10,000RPM. > > I know that. Why is anyone complaining about this > anyways? Production American V-8s are know for > reliable low-end power, in mostly heavy autos. Who > does have a production V-8 that turns a zillion RPM. > > Andy > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @xxx.com > > How about the new Honda/Acura NSX ... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 11:03:58 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) Most Motorcycles red line at close to and WAY over 10K rpm... The crotch rockets ALL redline at over 10,000 for sure... Your theory about the smaller the engine the higher the red line thus holds true... Then look at the lil tiny dirt bikes with the two strokers... I bet we could debate whether those babies hit 20K rpms! Or the lil Cox engines in the lil hand wire controlled model airplanes, those babies wind up pretty tight when ya lean em out enough, then right before they run totally outa gas they REALLY spin up due to the over leanness n all... Take er easy! LATER! Todd.... Shannen Durphey wrote: > > Bill Edgeworth wrote: > > > > "Frank/G.speed" wrote: > > > > > How about NHRA Pro Stock motors? 500 ci, 1300+ hp, 800+ ft-lbs, > > > 9000+ rpm... naturally aspirated. > > > > > > > The original comment was that NO AMERICAN PRODUCTION CAR CAME WITH A V8 > > THAT WAS MADE TO TURN 10,000 RPM. > > Sorry but I don't think you can go down (or ever could) to your local > > Chev dealer and buy a car with a aluminum or titanium rodded, jessel > > rocker geared engine with a knife edged 4340 crank > > You're changing what you're saying, methinks. Production engines > aside, you're now implying that 10k can't be reached without these > parts. Somebody's going to have to tell the little old V-8 guys they > couldn't get their engines to rev. > > I'm not the expert. I'm just noticing a subtle twist. I'm thinking > that there certainly must be engines that hit that rpm without the > trick parts you mention. Maybe they're not V8s, but given a small > enough bore and stroke, and small enough valves, and the upper rpm > limits have to get pretty high. > > I wonder what was really available, depending on who you were and who > your local Chevy dealer was. > Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 11:09:33 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) Oops Andy, ya pretty much put your foot in your mouth this time... Viper GTSR, Viper GTS-ACR.... These are two production built race cars, come with full 5 point harness seat belts, etc etc... They were and are Designed, Produced and Sold for racing... Kinda like the Super Stock Hemi cars of the late 60's, 68 Race Hemi Cuda's and Darts... Even had a sticker on em that said "Not for use on public hiways" or somethin like that, have a friend who drives an original 68 Race Hemi Cuda on the Streets of Houston, he can do it, he's rich, it's not all original any more anyways, has strange axles and aftermarket front and read disc brakes n stuff like that.... for safety n all... Matter of fact Greenspoint Dodge in north Houston has a VERY cool lookin ALL Silver(No stripes) Viper GTS-ACR on their showroom floor if ya wanna take a gander at a REAL production all race vehicle... Take er easy mang... LATER! Todd.... http://www.c-com.net/~atc347/toddlnk.htm Squash wrote: > > Who needs a production V-8 to spin that fast anyways? > Production V-8s are not meant for racing, and that is > why you can't buy a production race car! > > Andy > > --- Shannen Durphey wrote: > > Bill Edgeworth wrote: > > > > > > "Frank/G.speed" wrote: > > > > > > > How about NHRA Pro Stock motors? 500 ci, 1300+ > > hp, 800+ ft-lbs, > > > > 9000+ rpm... naturally aspirated. > > > > > > > > > > The original comment was that NO AMERICAN > > PRODUCTION CAR CAME WITH A V8 > > > THAT WAS MADE TO TURN 10,000 RPM. > > > Sorry but I don't think you can go down (or ever > > could) to your local > > > Chev dealer and buy a car with a aluminum or > > titanium rodded, jessel > > > rocker geared engine with a knife edged 4340 crank > > > > You're changing what you're saying, methinks. > > Production engines > > aside, you're now implying that 10k can't be reached > > without these > > parts. Somebody's going to have to tell the little > > old V-8 guys they > > couldn't get their engines to rev. > > > > I'm not the expert. I'm just noticing a subtle > > twist. I'm thinking > > that there certainly must be engines that hit that > > rpm without the > > trick parts you mention. Maybe they're not V8s, but > > given a small > > enough bore and stroke, and small enough valves, and > > the upper rpm > > limits have to get pretty high. > > > > I wonder what was really available, depending on who > > you were and who > > your local Chevy dealer was. > > Shannen > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #342 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. 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