DIY_EFI Digest Monday, June 7 1999 Volume 04 : Number 343 In this issue: Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) Re: Injector geometry Re: 10,000 RPM Re: 10,000 RPM Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) Viper GTS ACR - (Hey, it's f.i.'d) Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) Re: Cast ironvs. Steel was Prowler V6 Re: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices Re: Metric essay Re: 10,000 RPM Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) Re: metric Re: Cast ironvs. Steel was Prowler V6 Re: Injectors Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) Re: fuel pump question Re: 10,000 RPM Re: 10,000 RPM Re: 10,000 RPM Re: Cast ironvs. Steel was Prowler V6 Dangers of fuel Enrichment Re: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices Subject: Re: Metric essay Re: Subject: Re: Metric essay Re: fuel pump question Re: Injectors Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) Re: Injectors Re: Cast ironvs. Steel was Prowler V6 Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) Re: What mfg are GM eproms? No metric essay content Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 11:13:11 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) ALSO, can't believe I almost forgot... THEN ya had the Superbird and Daytona Charger built specifically for the Nascar circuit... Then the 1970 AAR Cuda (AAR = American Auto Racing) (340 6-pac engine) And the 1970 T/A Challenger (T/A = Track and ? Don't remember)(340 6-pac engine) Both of these cars were the only factory cars which had the exhaust turned out right infront of the rear tires! The SS Hemi's had a set of headers and glass packs in the trunk(Not installed!) VERY cool cars, in my book! LATER! Todd....!! Squash wrote: > > Who needs a production V-8 to spin that fast anyways? > Production V-8s are not meant for racing, and that is > why you can't buy a production race car! > > Andy > > --- Shannen Durphey wrote: > > Bill Edgeworth wrote: > > > > > > "Frank/G.speed" wrote: > > > > > > > How about NHRA Pro Stock motors? 500 ci, 1300+ > > hp, 800+ ft-lbs, > > > > 9000+ rpm... naturally aspirated. > > > > > > > > > > The original comment was that NO AMERICAN > > PRODUCTION CAR CAME WITH A V8 > > > THAT WAS MADE TO TURN 10,000 RPM. > > > Sorry but I don't think you can go down (or ever > > could) to your local > > > Chev dealer and buy a car with a aluminum or > > titanium rodded, jessel > > > rocker geared engine with a knife edged 4340 crank > > > > You're changing what you're saying, methinks. > > Production engines > > aside, you're now implying that 10k can't be reached > > without these > > parts. Somebody's going to have to tell the little > > old V-8 guys they > > couldn't get their engines to rev. > > > > I'm not the expert. I'm just noticing a subtle > > twist. I'm thinking > > that there certainly must be engines that hit that > > rpm without the > > trick parts you mention. Maybe they're not V8s, but > > given a small > > enough bore and stroke, and small enough valves, and > > the upper rpm > > limits have to get pretty high. > > > > I wonder what was really available, depending on who > > you were and who > > your local Chevy dealer was. > > Shannen > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 12:55:02 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Injector geometry > It seems to me that most if not all of these types of > manifolds i have seen have the injectors mounted > straight up. Yes, like I did. Why? The manifold sits flat on the drill press table, and the drill press drills down. A lot easier for a home shop person to drill a straight vertical hole than to drill a 45 degree angled hole. Though, in the case of the tunnel ram, if there is room on the inside, I'd mount them towards the center under the plenum facing down against the intake valve head, and have one fuel rail. If he uses the injectors with two o-rings, one on each end, you have enough play to adjust them as they get pushed in, so the tops (fuel supply/fuel rail side) get installed first, then the injectors are pushed into the bosses on the inside of the tunnel ram, and there you have it, one fuel rail. However, if his engine is a Mopar B block, its not going to reach from side to side unfortunately. Injectors don't seem to mind not being vertical. - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport CT 06606 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 12:57:25 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM > No one that I know of... Highest factory redline I've seen on any newer V8 > is between 5500 and 6500... > Sure would sound cool to hear open exhaust on a healthy V8 at 10,000RPM! Take out the factory limitor, and mash the pedal :) The question is, how long will it last :( - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport CT 06606 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 11:33:43 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM That's cool to know, never heard the figures before... There'd ya get those figures anyways? Just a wonderinnnnnnn..... Thanks! Todd....!! - ---------- Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020 wrote: > > > > > What about all the CAMMER engines, which didn't have the pushrods, but a > > cam on top of the heads pushing directly on the rockers or valves > > themselves? > > > > Just a thought... > > factory 7-7500 > bluprinted 9000 > > bottom emds would blow over that > Clive ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 12:59:34 -0400 From: David Cooley Subject: Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) At 11:13 AM 6/7/99 -0700, you wrote: >ALSO, can't believe I almost forgot... > >THEN ya had the Superbird and Daytona Charger built specifically for the >Nascar circuit... > >Then the 1970 AAR Cuda (AAR = American Auto Racing) (340 6-pac engine) >And the 1970 T/A Challenger (T/A = Track and ? Don't remember)(340 6-pac >engine) >Both of these cars were the only factory cars which had the exhaust >turned out right infront of the rear tires! Ford does that on the new F150's... Can't see that making a car a racecar. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 11:41:56 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Viper GTS ACR - (Hey, it's f.i.'d) More tidbits bout the Viper ACR... http://www.vipercentral.com/ http://www.vipercentral.com/viperacr/viperacr.htm Look Ma, there's even a NEON ACR!! http://www.vipercentral.com/neonacr/neonacr.htm LATER TATERS! Todd.... http://www.c-com.net/~atc347/toddlnk.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 10:27:37 -0700 From: Aaron Willis Subject: Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) At 05:29 AM 6/7/99 -0700, you wrote: >Who needs a production V-8 to spin that fast anyways? >Production V-8s are not meant for racing, and that is >why you can't buy a production race car! > >Andy > I have to take exception to this...several prod. V-8s (BBC and Mopar Hemi come immediately to mind) were very much designed with competition in mind. And the reason you can't buy a production race car is because, quite simply, for any number of reasons (liability, selling potential, warranty problems, CARB, CAFE, etc) it wouldn't be a good idea, economically. Aaron Willis ICQ #27386985 AOL IM: hemiyota http://surf.to/garage-te51 Garage TE51 International ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 13:08:28 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" Subject: Re: Cast ironvs. Steel was Prowler V6 Steel is a carbon-iron alloy. The carbon is part of the structure. Cast iron is a mixture of iron and little pieces of graphite. In gray iron, the graphite is in flat flakes and seriously reduces the strength and stiffness of iron when in tension but not in compression. Nodular iron is much stronger than gray iron because the graphite is spherical and detracts much less from the strength. To make steel from iron, the carbon is burned out with oxygen. Gary Derian Subject: RE: Cast ironvs. Steel was Prowler V6 > > You have just stated the total opposite of what I believed was true > > about cast iron vs. steel... > > > > You stated: > > "the excess carbon present in cast iron compared to steel, etc." > > Yes, I did and it's true. > > > Then ya stated that: > > "It's the reason that machine tools are all made from cast iron, not > > steel." > > Yes, I did, and yes, they are. Cast iron is much better at vibration > damping > than steel. > > > The BASIC FUNDAMENTAL difference 'tween Cast IRON and STEEL is that > > Steel is merely cast iron with CARBON added to the molten > > Cast Iron.... > > No, that's not the case at all. You're thinking cast iron is just > elemental iron, which it isn't. Steel is iron and carbon (and other > stuff, depending on the steel) with a carbon content below the > eutectic point (I think that's the correct point, but I can't remember > offhand) while cast iron is iron and carbon with a carbon content > above this point. > > > You stated the opposite, hopefully it was a type-o or the like? > > Nope. > > > ALSO Steel is stronger than cast iron, period, I'll use a steel pan > > against a cast iron pan in a fight anytime.... > > Not necessarily. It sounds like you're confusing fracture resistance > with strength. > > Consult a materials science text if you want the full scoop. Mine are > at home so I don't have a reference handy, and I don't feel like typing > that > much anyway. > > Not to mention it has zero to do with DIY-EFI. > > Michael Kasimirsky 1990 Yamaha FZR400 Superbike Racer > Loki Motorsports 1993 Kawasaki ZX1100D1 Streetbike Rider > FASTTRAX & WERA Expert #21 Sponsored by Loki Motorsports & Bridgestone > mtk@xxx.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 13:11:53 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" Subject: Re: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices Tipping over has to do with the CG height and track width. Roll center has almost no effect. That truck would have tipped over anyway. Gary Derian > this brings to mind a cool screw up I did, I reworked the suspension > on a truck that is used 90% offroad. one of the side effects of the > mods was that the roll center was above the cg. when you cornered the > sensation was that you felt like you were in a boat. the toyota leaned > in on curves. the downside was that it tipped over on road if you > overcooked a corner. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 13:17:53 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" Subject: Re: Metric essay Fahrenheit sent his thermometer to a friend in Scandinavia who marked the coldest temperature of the winter. He called that zero. He then measured his body temperature (he must have been a bit feverish that day) and called that 100. Not arbitrary but close. Not alcohol either. Gary Derian > > > > When Mr. Fahrenheit invented the thermometer, he had marked some arbitrary > > scale on it. When he placed it into icewater, it read 32. When he placed > > it in his wife's mouth, it read 98.7. > > I'm NOT saying my wife is cold but she read 37.6 8)) > > > >When he placed it into boiling > > water, it read 212. It has nothing to do with feeling hot or cold. The > > scale is entirely arbitrary. > > Close but no cigar 0 degree f is the freezing point of acohol (sp?) > 100F is the boiling point of acohol > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:53:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Squash Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM - --- Wen Yen Chan wrote: > Who does have a production V-8 that turns a zillion > RPM. > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get your free @xxx.com address at > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > How about the new Honda/Acura NSX ... What? These have v-8s? And 10,000 RPM? Prove it. Andy _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 10:58:24 -0700 From: Aaron Willis Subject: Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) At 11:03 AM 6/7/99 -0700, you wrote: >Most Motorcycles red line at close to and WAY over 10K rpm... > >The crotch rockets ALL redline at over 10,000 for sure... > >Your theory about the smaller the engine the higher the red line thus >holds true... > >Then look at the lil tiny dirt bikes with the two strokers... I bet we >could debate whether those babies hit 20K rpms! > They are usually rated at around 12K or 13K for 80cc bikes...leastthey were when I was into it with my brother a few years ago. 125s are a bit lower, etc etc..still pretty zingy. Aaron Willis ICQ #27386985 AOL IM: hemiyota http://surf.to/garage-te51 Garage TE51 International ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 14:18:33 -0400 From: Will McGonegal Subject: Re: metric For anyone interested in the origins of some temperature scales: http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF13/1317.html Fahrenheit set the zero point to be a that of a salt, water and ice mixture, 32 as the freezing point of water and 96 as the temperature of a healthy person -- this was later adjusted to the currently known value. As far as the comment that 100F is the boiling point of alcohol, which alcohol would boil at such a low temperature? And what mixture of alcohol freezes at 0F? The melting point of pure ethanol is -117.3C (-179.14F), boiling point 78.5C (173.3F). Pure methanol is -93.9C (-137.02F) and 64.96C (148.928F) according to the CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics. Myself I commonly use both metric and english units and have no problem converting between the two. I do much prefer the metric system though as it requires fewer conversion factors. The dynamometers that I develop use software that operates in metric units internally. Then they are converted to whatever units I need for display purposes. Take for instance power. To get a car of 2000 kg (approx. 4400 lbs) to accelerate at 4 meters per second squared (8.95 mph/s) at a speed (on level ground) of 25 meters/second (55.9 mph) takes 2000 * 4 * 25 = 200000 Watts (200 Kw, or 268.2 Hp). Much simpler math (less conversion factors) with metric for engineering calculations. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 12:46:47 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Cast ironvs. Steel was Prowler V6 > >The BASIC FUNDAMENTAL difference 'tween Cast IRON and STEEL is that >Steel is merely cast iron with CARBON added to the molten Cast Iron.... > >You stated the opposite, hopefully it was a type-o or the like? > Nope-- Steel has from 0.02% carbon up maybe 1.00% Cast iron has usually between 2.50% and 4.00% carbon. The original (Bessemer) process for making steel out of pig iron actually BUR?NED the carbon out of the iron. Greg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 12:48:14 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Injectors >Hi Bruce, > >Just ran across this e-mail again and just wanted to ask ya what the >BIGGEST injector flow you've ever heard of is? > Bosch makes some 160 #/hr. injectors. Greg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 12:09:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Squash Subject: Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) - --- Aaron Willis wrote: > At 05:29 AM 6/7/99 -0700, you wrote: > V-8s (BBC and Mopar Hemi > come immediately to mind) were very much designed > with competition in mind. Past tense. And they still didn't spin 10000 rpm from the factory. > And the reason you can't buy a production race car > is because, quite > simply, for any number of reasons (liability, > selling potential, warranty > problems, CARB, CAFE, etc) it wouldn't be a good > idea, economically. Of course not, all of these are good reasons. Andy _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 12:15:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Squash Subject: Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) - --- Aaron Willis wrote: > At 11:03 AM 6/7/99 -0700, you wrote: > >Most Motorcycles red line at close to and WAY over > 10K rpm... > > > >The crotch rockets ALL redline at over 10,000 for > sure... > > > >Your theory about the smaller the engine the higher > the red line thus > >holds true... > > > >Then look at the lil tiny dirt bikes with the two > strokers... I bet we > >could debate whether those babies hit 20K rpms! > > > They are usually rated at around 12K or 13K for > 80cc bikes...leastthey > were when I was into it with my brother a few years > ago. 125s are a bit > lower, etc etc..still pretty zingy. > > > > Aaron Willis > ICQ #27386985 > AOL IM: hemiyota > http://surf.to/garage-te51 Garage TE51 > International > Hmmm... I've got a great weed-eater. It must spin around 10,000 rpm easy. Its a 2-cycle with 28cc displacement. Does this mean that it works better than a 3600 rpm lawn mower? Ha!!! Squash _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 09:46:50 -0500 From: Jason Haines Subject: Re: fuel pump question No, the pump won't burn itself out (the pump doesn't know if you are using the fuel in the engine or returning it to the tank). Using too big a pump can hurt you in terms of added and unneeded current draw, additional noise (bigger pumps tend to be noisier but this is probably not an issue on a ZX-11) and increased fuel temperature. Jason At 09:27 PM 6/6/99 -0500, you wrote: >I'm converting a zx-11 to fuel injection and had a bosch fuel pump from a >different application. The pump supplies way more fuel than the system needs >(est 170hp). Will the pump "burn itself out" if too much fuel is returned to >the tank through the regulator? > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:33:19 -0400 (EDT) From: William T Wilson Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM On Mon, 7 Jun 1999, Wen Yen Chan wrote: > How about the new Honda/Acura NSX ... How about them Cleveland Indians. The Acura NSX is neither American, nor a V8, nor does it rev 10,000 RPM. I think it has a 2.8 or 3.0L V6, and the redline is around 8000. As far as I know it's made in Japan, and it was certainly designed there... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:52:44 -0400 From: Wen Yen Chan Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM My mistake.... I was thinking of a pre-production prototype of the NSX's engine I read about a while back. On Mon, 7 Jun 1999, William T Wilson wrote: > On Mon, 7 Jun 1999, Wen Yen Chan wrote: > > > How about the new Honda/Acura NSX ... > > How about them Cleveland Indians. > > The Acura NSX is neither American, nor a V8, nor does it rev 10,000 RPM. I > think it has a 2.8 or 3.0L V6, and the redline is around 8000. As far as > I know it's made in Japan, and it was certainly designed there... > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 16:02:12 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM > I know it's made in Japan, and it was certainly designed there... 3.0L V6, 10.2:1 c/r, and really needs a turbo :) - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport CT 06606 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 16:08:41 -0400 From: Barry Tisdale Subject: Re: Cast ironvs. Steel was Prowler V6 Steel starts out as cast iron w/ all the original carbon blown out w/ O2. THEN - measured amounts of carbon & other materials (chromium, vanadium, molybdenum, etc) are added back *in*. Cast iron absorbs vibration much better then steel - machine BASES are made thusly; lathe beds, etc. Not cutting tools, of course. "Stronger" has no technical meaning. Do you mean more ductile, malleable, higher modulus of elasticity, or what? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 13:19:17 -0700 From: Bill Edgeworth Subject: Dangers of fuel Enrichment This may be of interest to those of you who run extra Injectors for enrichment that spray into the plenum. (Like on a paxton blow through kit that has extra injectors on top side of the throttle body) The other weekend I was at the races and saw a Hemi Cuda that was sporting the new Mopar single 4 intake as opposed to the Rat Roaster he previously ran. (This manifold was talked about on the list not to long ago). I asked him how much better the new manifold was than the Rat Roaster and he explained that the only reason he changed was that his Rat Roaster no longer existed. He had a carb backfire during cranking and with the huge plenum on the Manifold being filled with air and fuel it shattered the manifold. Backfires of this type generally are not a problem with efi but if anyone is running a big plenum that has enrichment during cranking beware! Bill Edgeworth ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 16:26:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Ford Subject: Re: Types of differentials/Traction aiding devices Previously, you (Gary Derian) wrote: > Tipping over has to do with the CG height and track width. Roll center has > almost no effect. That truck would have tipped over anyway. true but body roll would have warned us before it happened, if your head is stuck against the side window you have fair warning, if the horizon tilts the wrong way there is no warning ( we leaned in then boom we were upsidedown) it was a fun ride though > > Gary Derian > > > > this brings to mind a cool screw up I did, I reworked the suspension > > on a truck that is used 90% offroad. one of the side effects of the > > mods was that the roll center was above the cg. when you cornered the > > sensation was that you felt like you were in a boat. the toyota leaned > > in on curves. the downside was that it tipped over on road if you > > overcooked a corner. > > > > - -- Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 16:35:53 -0400 (EDT) From: ken mayer Subject: Subject: Re: Metric essay > Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:52:37 -0400 (EDT) > From: Pat Ford > > Previously, you (ken mayer) wrote: [snip] > > When Mr. Fahrenheit invented the thermometer, he had marked some arbitrary > > scale on it. When he placed it into icewater, it read 32. When he placed > > it in his wife's mouth, it read 98.7. > > I'm NOT saying my wife is cold but she read 37.6 8)) > > >When he placed it into boiling > > water, it read 212. It has nothing to do with feeling hot or cold. The > > scale is entirely arbitrary. > > Close but no cigar 0 degree f is the freezing point of acohol (sp?) > 100F is the boiling point of acohol What alcohol are you referring to? There's tens of thousands of "alcohol" compounds. Some of the simple ones are: Methanol mp= -93.9C,bp= 64.96C Ethanol mp= -117.3C, bp=78.5C 1-propanol mp= -126.5C, bp= 97.4C 1-butanol mp= -89.53C, bp=117.25C 1-pentanol mp= -79C bp= 137.3C None of these temperatures converts to 0F or 100F. The trend is that the larger molecules have a successively higher boiling point (as expected). Ken :-) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:40:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Squash Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Metric essay I thought water boiled at 100 C (212 F) and froze at 0 C (32 F)??? Not alcohol??? Andy - --- ken mayer wrote: > > > Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:52:37 -0400 (EDT) > > From: Pat Ford > > > > Previously, you (ken mayer) wrote: > [snip] > > > > When Mr. Fahrenheit invented the thermometer, he > had marked some arbitrary > > > scale on it. When he placed it into icewater, > it read 32. When he placed > > > it in his wife's mouth, it read 98.7. > > > > I'm NOT saying my wife is cold but she read 37.6 > 8)) > > > > >When he placed it into boiling > > > water, it read 212. It has nothing to do with > feeling hot or cold. The > > > scale is entirely arbitrary. > > > > Close but no cigar 0 degree f is the freezing > point of acohol (sp?) > > 100F is the boiling point of acohol > > What alcohol are you referring to? There's tens of > thousands of > "alcohol" compounds. Some of the simple ones are: > Methanol mp= -93.9C,bp= 64.96C > Ethanol mp= -117.3C, bp=78.5C > 1-propanol mp= -126.5C, bp= 97.4C > 1-butanol mp= -89.53C, bp=117.25C > 1-pentanol mp= -79C bp= 137.3C > None of these temperatures converts to 0F or 100F. > The trend is that the > larger molecules have a successively higher boiling > point (as expected). > > Ken > :-) > > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 17:11:43 -0500 From: "John Wu" Subject: Re: fuel pump question I didn't think so. Paxton has a product that drops the voltage to the fuel pump to 6V when the engine isn't at WOT or on boost. They claim it prevents the pump from "burning out." Sounded a little phoney to me. Sorry for the dumb question. - -----Original Message----- From: Jason Haines To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 3:04 PM Subject: Re: fuel pump question >No, the pump won't burn itself out (the pump doesn't know if you are using >the fuel in the engine or returning it to the tank). Using too big a pump >can hurt you in terms of added and unneeded current draw, additional noise >(bigger pumps tend to be noisier but this is probably not an issue on a >ZX-11) and increased fuel temperature. > > >Jason ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 16:07:22 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Injectors WOW! Thanks a lot for that info! 100 lb.hr is equivelant to how many HP? Or is that the right way to look at it?.... ALSO, If I plan on pushin say 1,000+ hp with a f.i.'d intercooled twin turbo 440 or 451 cu in engine, with a minimum of 15 lbs. boost under acceleration, what size injectors should I use at a minimum? What's the forumla for this, or where may I find the formulas for proper injector sizing for various apps? Fred B is doin a similar engine, VERY similar and I hope he sees this post as well, would like his input as well.... LATER! Thanks again! Todd....!! David A. Cooley wrote: > > >Hi Bruce, > > > >Just ran across this e-mail again and just wanted to ask ya what the > >BIGGEST injector flow you've ever heard of is? > > > >My buddy said he tried runnin like 7X. lb/hr injectors in his OVER > >souped up Shelby Charger Turbo, but he couldn't get it to idle without > >MAJOR jolting of the car(And his neck).. So he put in some 5X. lb/hr > >injectors which gave him good idle and pretty good top end wihtout goin > >too lean... > > I have heard of 100 lb/hr injectors, but never known anyone to use them... > there are some people in the Buick GN area that have run 82 lb/hr injectors > with minimal degradation in Idle quality... but by the time they run an > injector that big, they have a heavily modified motor that idles at 1200 or > so RPM anyway... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 16:51:02 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) Didn't know that about the turnouts on the ford truck, never seen it, will keep a closer eye out for it in the future...would that be on the SPLASH or what? You can get from 0 to up to 50 hp with exhaust system mods alone, depending on the app... ALSO, I know that truck exhaust laws are WAY more lenient than they are for cars... With this in mind, what production CARS have ya seen with the turn outs in front of the rear tires? American or not? Any? I can't think of any? Would be cool if there were, maybe someone will remember/know of some??? Just wonderin.... As for the exhaust makin a car a race car, I dunno, would have to be opn for interpretation (as most things are) however, if I ran my Superbee's 440 with open headers, a LOT(MOST) people would think it's a race car just due to that lil mod... But as far as the: AAR Cuda ('American Auto Racing')(340 6-pac(3-2-barrels!)) So it has a SUPER hi-po induction as wel las a SUPER free flowing exhaust, with solid lifters, race paint job, etc, etc.. It's a BORN racer, Designed and builst to be a racer, I'd say that makes it a race car, in every sense of the word) T/A Challenger (Track and ...) About the same package as the AAR... and then the 1968 Race Hemi Cudas and Darts (The factory called em RACE hemi's vs. the regular ol hemi's of the day for a reason... They put the sticker not for 'public hiway use' for a reason as well, I don't think these behemoths were even insurable and NON of the Race Hemi's came with any sort of warranties, because the factory KNEW what these cars were going to be used for, the purpose they were DESIGNED and BUILT for, to RACE! Then there's the Superbird and Daytona Chargers, SPECIAL nose cones as well as a 5+ ft. HUMONGOUS rear spoiler were part of the NASCAR circuit package... Built SPECIFICALLY to be RACED on the NASCAR circuit, these were DEFINITE race cars, built from the factory and good for 200+ mph on the big oval.... DEFINITE race car's in every sense of the word.... the 1969 DZ302 Camaro, and some of the yenko's etc could be considered a kindof race car, but some of these were aftermarket(Not produced at the factory, but at the dealer or outsourced at some custom shop, like hurst maybe?) so some of those are open to debate as being FACTORY racers or not... The Viper GTS-R and Viper ACR are two factory race cars as well... ALSO noticed that the General Motors Group has a new Racer Vette to try n spank the Racer Viper GTS-R(The 'R' is for RACE!) The Vette's called the C5-R Link to the Viper racers and the Vette racers: http://members.tripod.com/NickSmith18/viper.htm Take er easy mang! Just so I'll know, what exactly IS your definition of a factory race car? LATER! Todd.... - -------- David Cooley wrote: > > At 11:13 AM 6/7/99 -0700, you wrote: > >ALSO, can't believe I almost forgot... > > > >THEN ya had the Superbird and Daytona Charger built specifically for the > >Nascar circuit... > > > >Then the 1970 AAR Cuda (AAR = American Auto Racing) (340 6-pac engine) > >And the 1970 T/A Challenger (T/A = Track and ? Don't remember)(340 6-pac > >engine) > >Both of these cars were the only factory cars which had the exhaust > >turned out right infront of the rear tires! > > Ford does that on the new F150's... Can't see that making a car a racecar. > > =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated! > =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 16:58:45 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Injectors HOLY COW! Is it safe to assume that these injectors are for high output throttle body injection systems? Can't imagine what kinda power an engine with that size injector must be doin!! Any clues? WOW again! LATER! Todd.... - ---------- Greg Hermann wrote: > > >Hi Bruce, > > > >Just ran across this e-mail again and just wanted to ask ya what the > >BIGGEST injector flow you've ever heard of is? > > > Bosch makes some 160 #/hr. injectors. > > Greg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 17:00:56 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Cast ironvs. Steel was Prowler V6 WOW, I'm 30 yrs old and always thought of it back a$$wards... Must have somethin to do with growin up in a few small hick towns in texas maybe? Dunno! Now I DO, thanks to ya'll... Thanks for the correction and info! NOW I know how ta make steel! LATER! Todd.... Greg Hermann wrote: > > > > >The BASIC FUNDAMENTAL difference 'tween Cast IRON and STEEL is that > >Steel is merely cast iron with CARBON added to the molten Cast Iron.... > > > >You stated the opposite, hopefully it was a type-o or the like? > > > > Nope-- > > Steel has from 0.02% carbon up maybe 1.00% > > Cast iron has usually between 2.50% and 4.00% carbon. > > The original (Bessemer) process for making steel out of pig iron actually > BUR?NED the carbon out of the iron. > > Greg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 16:57:37 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) WOW, wonder what the piston speed of those 10,000+ rpm engine's pistons are? Gimme the stroke and I'll tell ya the speed? LATER!! Todd....!! - ------------ Aaron Willis wrote: > > At 11:03 AM 6/7/99 -0700, you wrote: > >Most Motorcycles red line at close to and WAY over 10K rpm... > > > >The crotch rockets ALL redline at over 10,000 for sure... > > > >Your theory about the smaller the engine the higher the red line thus > >holds true... > > > >Then look at the lil tiny dirt bikes with the two strokers... I bet we > >could debate whether those babies hit 20K rpms! > > > They are usually rated at around 12K or 13K for 80cc bikes...leastthey > were when I was into it with my brother a few years ago. 125s are a bit > lower, etc etc..still pretty zingy. > > Aaron Willis > ICQ #27386985 > AOL IM: hemiyota > http://surf.to/garage-te51 Garage TE51 International ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 17:02:25 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) GOOD'n! But I bet ya don't get them hard to reach corners with that lawnmower, ey? haha.. Later, Todd....!! Squash wrote: > > --- Aaron Willis wrote: > > At 11:03 AM 6/7/99 -0700, you wrote: > > >Most Motorcycles red line at close to and WAY over > > 10K rpm... > > > > > >The crotch rockets ALL redline at over 10,000 for > > sure... > > > > > >Your theory about the smaller the engine the higher > > the red line thus > > >holds true... > > > > > >Then look at the lil tiny dirt bikes with the two > > strokers... I bet we > > >could debate whether those babies hit 20K rpms! > > > > > They are usually rated at around 12K or 13K for > > 80cc bikes...leastthey > > were when I was into it with my brother a few years > > ago. 125s are a bit > > lower, etc etc..still pretty zingy. > > > > > > > > Aaron Willis > > ICQ #27386985 > > AOL IM: hemiyota > > http://surf.to/garage-te51 Garage TE51 > > International > > > > Hmmm... > > I've got a great weed-eater. It must spin around > 10,000 rpm easy. Its a 2-cycle with 28cc > displacement. Does this mean that it works better > than a 3600 rpm lawn mower? Ha!!! > > Squash > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 16:44:03 -0600 From: "Programmer" Subject: Re: What mfg are GM eproms? No metric essay content Heck of an idea--thanks for that one !! Lyndon - -----Original Message----- From: Robert W. Hughes To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 11:31 AM Subject: Re: What mfg are GM eproms? No metric essay content >Some of the proms (TI is good about this) have the part number and >manufacturer's name etched on the substrate. Use a 50 power microscope >to look through the window and look around. > >Otherwise, to read the prom I just select generic 27512 and read it in. >If the data at $8000 is a repeat of the data at $0000 then it is a >27256. >If the data at $4000 is a repeat of the data at $0000 then it is a >27128. >If the data at $2000 is a repeat of the data at $0000 then it is a 2764. >If the data at $1000 is a repeat of the data at $0000 then it is a 2732. > >Use the generic correct length chip selection at 12.5v to program. If >there are a lot of errors, then use a higher voltage. > >Incidentally, plugging the prom into anything upside down will get you >one little bright white flash in the window. >-- >Robert W. Hughes (Bob) >BackYard Engineering >Houston, Texas >rwhughe@xxx.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 10:33:11 +1200 From: Steve Spiers Subject: Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) > > They are usually rated at around 12K or 13K for 80cc bikes...leastthey > were when I was into it with my brother a few years ago. 125s are a bit > lower, etc etc..still pretty zingy. > Heh - A friends 1973 Fiat 128, with standard 1300cc, with 40mm dcoe's pulls strong to 9500rpm! Steve > > Aaron Willis > ICQ #27386985 > AOL IM: hemiyota > http://surf.to/garage-te51 Garage TE51 International ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 18:29:41 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) At 04:51 PM 6/7/99 -0700, you wrote: >Didn't know that about the turnouts on the ford truck, never seen it, >will keep a closer eye out for it in the future...would that be on the >SPLASH or what? > All new F150's >You can get from 0 to up to 50 hp with exhaust system mods alone, >depending on the app... > I've seen those numbers claimed before, but without tuning the rest of the combo, Fuel, Ignition timing etc to take advantage of the improved breathing, opening the exhaust and making it freer flowing can actually hurt performance. >ALSO, I know that truck exhaust laws are WAY more lenient than they are >for cars... > >With this in mind, what production CARS have ya seen with the turn outs >in front of the rear tires? American or not? Any? I can't think of >any? Would be cool if there were, maybe someone will remember/know of >some??? Just wonderin.... > I believe AMC had one, can't remember the model or year. >Just so I'll know, what exactly IS your definition of a factory race >car? Any car sold through a factory showroom/dealership that is entered into any class of professional racing without any mods added to the factory configuration. Even the Dodge Neon ACR is considered a factory race car, but it was for ACR class SCCA racing... they accelerate well for a 2.0L 4 cyl, but it also depends on what class of racing... I personally think anyone can drive in circles all day, and NASCAR bores the hell out of me. Strap me into a 2000 pound missile with 6000HP and point me in a straight line for 1/4 mile and that's what I call racing! =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #343 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".