DIY_EFI Digest Tuesday, June 8 1999 Volume 04 : Number 345 In this issue: Re: 10,000 RPM Way off topic!!! Drawing Diagrams dummy Re: 02 Sensors Re: 10,000 RPM Re: Subject: Re: Metric essay Re: metric Re: 10,000 RPM Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) Re: metric E&M Re: 10,000 RPM Tricolor LED Re: 10,000 RPM Re: Tricolor LED Re: Cast ironvs. Steel was Prowler V6 Re: fuel pump question Re: Dangers of fuel Enrichment Re: Injectors Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (okay, one more thing) Re: 10,000 RPM RE: Tricolor LED Re: Tricolor LED Re: Dangers of fuel Enrichment Re: fuel pump question Re: Injectors Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (Viper as a F.I.'d factory race car) Re: 10,000 rpm v8 - quick note for analysis by you guys... Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) Re: Dangers of fuel Enrichment Re: Tricolor LED Re: Tricolor LED Re: 02 Sensors Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 11:13:36 +0200 (MET DST) From: "Daniel R. Henriksson" Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM Way off topic!!! Hi list members! If i'm not totally wrong this lists topic should be about making your own fuel injection system, NOT about investigating 10000RPM V8's to death... So please let's get focused on EFI's instead. BR Daniel Henriksson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 20:37:45 +1000 From: "Geffro" Subject: Drawing Diagrams just found a neat little dos program that allows you to 'draw' circuit diagrams is a simple MS-DOS schematic drawing program for electronic circuits using standard keyboard characters. http://members.tripod.com/~schematics/electro.htm under the heading Electronics Shareware & Freeware Cheers Geoff ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 20:47:10 +1000 From: "Geffro" Subject: dummy What's PIC ? TIA Geoff ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 07:28:36 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: 02 Sensors > me what the 'bar' (as marked on the pcb) is for ? > This bar is a break in the circuit on the 12v feed side of the last Th eLM3914 has the ability to display in "bar mode" and "dot mode". Dot mode means only one LED is lit at a time, and moves up and down the bargraph depending on the input. Bar mode is more like a VU meter on a stereo - where the higher the signal, the more "bars" or LEDs light up. Since I don't have the schematic of your kit this is an educated guess, but this would be my expectations based on the LM3914 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 07:16:58 -0500 From: Steve Gorkowski Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM Seen it on the reader at a Ford dealership it flagged the error and RPM was logged with it. I'm just going by the Ford code reader. The 4.6 is a high rpm engine and very well balanced engine. Steve David A. Cooley wrote: > At 08:53 PM 6/7/99 -0500, you wrote: > >Ford has a production V8 built Police cars and Mustangs to handle 7k > >over and over all over the USA and puts a warranty on it. This engine > >will go higher if you bypass EFI but then your on your own . I think in > >the price range that can be considered a high rpm engine. It puts a high > >RPM engine in the hands of the average person. The Chevy Police car must > >do the same. > > I'd like to see documentation on that... > I have driven MANY Ford and Chevy police vehicles and never saw one that > had any higher red-line than it's civilian counterpart. > Police packages typically are silicone hoses for coolant, higher capacity > cooling system, larger alternator/battery for powering the lights and > radios, extra power taps in the fuse boxes, and possibly a different > gearing. Federal law for emissions keeps law enforcement agencies to the > same calibrations in the ECM's as civilian vehicles with the exception of > top speed limiters. > =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! > =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 08:26:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Ford Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Metric essay Previously, you (Squash) wrote: > I thought water boiled at 100 C (212 F) and froze at 0 > C (32 F)??? Not alcohol??? > > Andy > > --- ken mayer wrote: > > > > > Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:52:37 -0400 (EDT) > > > From: Pat Ford > > > > > > Previously, you (ken mayer) wrote: > > [snip] > > > > > > When Mr. Fahrenheit invented the thermometer, he > > had marked some arbitrary > > > > scale on it. When he placed it into icewater, > > it read 32. When he placed > > > > it in his wife's mouth, it read 98.7. > > > > > > I'm NOT saying my wife is cold but she read 37.6 > > 8)) > > > > > > >When he placed it into boiling > > > > water, it read 212. It has nothing to do with > > feeling hot or cold. The > > > > scale is entirely arbitrary. > > > > > > Close but no cigar 0 degree f is the freezing > > point of acohol (sp?) > > > 100F is the boiling point of acohol actualy after posting this I looked it up, and I was wrong the 0 point is the approximate temp of a solution made up of equal measures ( by weight ) of snow and common salt > > > > What alcohol are you referring to? There's tens of > > thousands of what I'd heard was the kind you drink ( and don't die 8) > > "alcohol" compounds. Some of the simple ones are: > > Methanol mp= -93.9C,bp= 64.96C > > Ethanol mp= -117.3C, bp=78.5C > > 1-propanol mp= -126.5C, bp= 97.4C > > 1-butanol mp= -89.53C, bp=117.25C > > 1-pentanol mp= -79C bp= 137.3C > > None of these temperatures converts to 0F or 100F. > > The trend is that the > > larger molecules have a successively higher boiling > > point (as expected). > > > > Ken > > :-) > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @xxx.com > - -- Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 22:56:13 +1000 From: Peter Gargano Subject: Re: metric Charlie Springer wrote: > I agree completely, until you start working with E&M. > Electricity and magnetism is a mess. You want to explain what you're saying here? - -- Peter Gargano ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 09:10:43 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM > gearing. Federal law for emissions keeps law enforcement agencies to the > same calibrations in the ECM's as civilian vehicles with the exception of > top speed limiters. All of the above plus sway bars, and on Chevy vehicles, a slightly more aggressive cam. Key word is slight. Years ago, police motors were often, not always, 4-bolt mains. What I find especially interesting is the Ford 3.8L V6 police motor. Don't laugh, this exists! I found out a lot about this particular motor when I cracked my cylinder heads due to the years of boosting the engine, and pounding on the "go" pedal. Anyway, in 1993, the differences between the "Regular" FWD 3.8L motor and the "Police/Lincoln" FWD 3.8L motor are as follows, according to the local Ford dealer's parts department in Bridgeport Connecticut. I am regurgitating :) Intake valves are .2 larger in diameter. Cam lobes have an additional .02" lobe length on the exhaust side. The torque converter has a 100 RPM higher stall speed. The idle is 50 RPM higher. The struts are "Heavy Duty" on the Police Taurus, though my Lincoln has air struts. The idler pulley is mounted slightly differently (different part number) The water pump has a different part number. The radiator has a different part number, and visually, it looks "thicker". The power steering pump has a different part number. There are some suspension differences like sway bars I'd imagine, but I didn't research those, only the engine differences, because the head castings on my Lincoln match the same year police motor, and I wanted the new heads to flow the same way as the old heads. I ported them with a dremel as I did the old heads, however in both cases I used the stock "police package" valves that were already loaded. After all this research, I accidentally stumbled across a 1988 Taurus with the same casting, valve diameter, and stem length as the heads on my Lincoln, in shiny, new condition in a junkyard. The prior owner apparently swapped in a motor just before it was bashed in the rear by something significantly larger, so I yanked the heads and went on my way. $80 a piece was much better than "$795 plus a 3 month backorder" from the dealer. Sorry for the extra wind... I got on a roll. - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport CT 06606 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 06:25:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Squash Subject: Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) - --- ".." wrote: > Todd; > It's starting to sound like you'd be impressed by a > Yugo with Racing > Stripes!! > rap That factory was blown up by NATO bombs, by the way. > > "Todd....!!" wrote: > > > Oops Andy, ya pretty much put your foot in your > mouth this time... No, I never do that! > > > > Viper GTSR, Viper GTS-ACR.... > > > > These are two production built race cars, come > with full 5 point harness > > seat belts, etc etc... Kewl! > > > > They were and are Designed, Produced and Sold for > racing... There is an exception to every rule, but they don't spin 10,000 RPM, either. As a RULE, there are no production racecars. andy _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 09:25:30 -0400 From: Will McGonegal Subject: Re: metric E&M > I agree completely, until you start working with E&M. Electricity and > magnetism is a mess. > > Charlie Springer Yes, I took such a course.... many constants used in the many equations for calculations! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 06:32:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Squash Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM - --- Steve Gorkowski wrote: > Ford has a production V8 built Police cars and > Mustangs to handle 7k > over and over all over the USA and puts a warranty > on it. really... > RPM engine in the hands of the average person. The > Chevy Police car must > do the same. hardly _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 08:51:21 -0500 From: Clarence Wood Subject: Tricolor LED Can anyone direct me to a distributor of the tricolor LED? I have tried Digikey and Tech America. IZCC #3426 1982 280ZX Turbo GL 1966 El Camino 1982 Yamaha Maxim XJ-1101J Motorcycle 1975 Honda CB750 SS (black engine) 1986 Snapper Comet lawn mower Clarence Wood Software&Such... clarencewood@xxx.net Savannah, TN. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 09:44:34 -0500 (CDT) From: eclark@xxx.com Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM >From what I understand GM only does durability mods to thier police car engines. Like silicone hoses, oil cooler, things of that nature. Even still last I heard the Camaro still holds the title of fastest production police pursuit car. And the 96 Caprice still holds the title of the fastest production four door police vehicle. Although I think that may be in top speed only. On Mon, 7 Jun 1999, Steve Gorkowski wrote: > Ford has a production V8 built Police cars and Mustangs to handle 7k > over and over all over the USA and puts a warranty on it. This engine > will go higher if you bypass EFI but then your on your own . I think in > the price range that can be considered a high rpm engine. It puts a high > RPM engine in the hands of the average person. The Chevy Police car must > do the same. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 11:22:57 -0400 From: David Cooley Subject: Re: Tricolor LED At 08:51 AM 6/8/99 -0500, you wrote: > Can anyone direct me to a distributor of the tricolor LED? I have > tried Digikey and Tech America. I've seen them in both those catalogs... RadioShack even carries them. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 09:03:42 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Cast ironvs. Steel was Prowler V6 Hello Barry, I see more clearly now! Thanks for the technicals on cast vs. steel, preciate it very much! LATER! Todd.... http://www.c-com.net/~atc347/toddlnk.htm Barry Tisdale wrote: > > Steel starts out as cast iron w/ all the original carbon blown out w/ O2. THEN - measured amounts of carbon & other materials (chromium, vanadium, molybdenum, etc) are added back *in*. > > Cast iron absorbs vibration much better then steel - machine BASES are made thusly; lathe beds, etc. Not cutting tools, of course. > > "Stronger" has no technical meaning. Do you mean more ductile, malleable, higher modulus of elasticity, or what? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 09:29:34 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: fuel pump question Hi John, Please excuse the vagness of my post here... Once read about a fuzzy logic fuel pressure controller which controlled the voltage to the pump based on some signal from the engine(Vacuum maybe?) Kindof like a powervalve in a carb... But instead of limiting the fuel via a valve restriction, as most fuel pressure regulators do(which restricts the entire system and puts limits on the total amount of possible fuel delivery in time... It limits the fuel pressure via the pump power, only pushes the pump voltage to the amount needed.... Increases pump life, reduces overly pressurized overly heated fuel and can pump enough fuel for any application due to its inherent design... Can't remember the brand of the fuzzy logic system, this is why I asked to be excused due to my vagness.... Hope I shed some light, or at least re-shed it... LATER! Todd....!! John Wu wrote: > > I didn't think so. > Paxton has a product that drops the voltage to the fuel pump to 6V when the > engine isn't at WOT or on boost. They claim it prevents the pump from > "burning out." Sounded a little phoney to me. > Sorry for the dumb question. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jason Haines > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 3:04 PM > Subject: Re: fuel pump question > > >No, the pump won't burn itself out (the pump doesn't know if you are using > >the fuel in the engine or returning it to the tank). Using too big a pump > >can hurt you in terms of added and unneeded current draw, additional noise > >(bigger pumps tend to be noisier but this is probably not an issue on a > >ZX-11) and increased fuel temperature. > > > > > >Jason ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 09:20:51 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Dangers of fuel Enrichment WOW Bill, That woulda been cool to see, from a VERY FAR DISTANCE! I have pity on the dude, he IS runnin a HEMI however, so he doesn't need too much pity, except when we see him at the pumps, EVERY PUMP, on the way to wherever he's cruisin tooooo.... lol... But really, he should have some sorta popoff valve to prevent this from happenin... Ya know? Seeing that just about ALL race carbs don't have power valves, I'm sure he didn't blow any of his in that fireworks event... ya know? Isn't this one of the reasons popoff valves were invented in the first place? To prevent things such as what happened to him? Tell him about em, see if he knows what they are? Maybe he just didn't wanna mess up his Roaster, well, NOW look at it, pieces everywhere... Also, ya never DID mention whether or not he gained or lost performance between the two intakes... Did ya get a clue from him as to this or did the explodin rat roaster take over the conversation... Hope to find out which intake is better... ALSO, within the rat roaster itself a lot of the racers play around with puttin dams and ducts in all different sorts of areas in order to increase/change flow characteristics within the manifold...(A type of tuning it to their application, ya know?) Some people claim gains of up to and over 40-50 HP just from the use of a Rat roaster type intake! Most racers usin the roaster, stock lookin cast or handmade sheetmetal will tell you and even show you just about EVERY aspect of their engine, EXCEPT for the internals of their roaster!! That's where the secrets are hidden! Can't IMIAGINE what the heck they're doin inside of theose things that could be so helpful that they think they'd lose their 'edge' if they show someone the internals of their personal roaster setup... A port injection system would look really cool atop a roaster on a hemi... Where would the fuel rails go, would have to be really high in the bay if placed on top of the intake.... also, since the ports are within the inner bay of the roaster, how would the injectors be placed? The roasters bottom section is bolted straight down onto the heads, the top must be removed in order for this to be done, wheras the top portion then bolts to the bottom portion of the roaster.... Thanks for the warning about em, I DO beleive a popoff valve would've allowed him to still be runnin that roaster, what do ya think? Later! Todd.... http://www.c-com.net/~atc347/toddlnk.htm Bill Edgeworth wrote: > > This may be of interest to those of you who run extra Injectors for > enrichment that spray into the plenum. (Like on a paxton blow through > kit that has extra injectors on top side of the throttle body) > The other weekend I was at the races and saw a Hemi Cuda that was > sporting the new Mopar single 4 intake as opposed to the Rat Roaster he > previously ran. (This manifold was talked about on the list not to long > ago). > I asked him how much better the new manifold was than the Rat Roaster > and he explained that the only reason he changed was that his Rat > Roaster no longer existed. > He had a carb backfire during cranking and with the huge plenum on the > Manifold being filled with air and fuel it shattered the manifold. > Backfires of this type generally are not a problem with efi but if > anyone is running a big plenum that has enrichment during cranking > beware! > > Bill Edgeworth ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 10:11:47 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Injectors WOW DAVE!, Thanks for that ULTIMATE link about injectors! Couldn't ask for more info, I don't believe... Will be printin a LOT of that web site for referencing! 'Preciate it mang! 100 lbs. may work great at WOT, but this is a daily driver man, must have SOME sorta idle quality, even if at 1,200-1,500 rpm, dont want the surging idle that I've heard so much about when runnin too large of injectors... May just use some 70-80 lb'rs to begin with and go up from there...depending on boost, will start out at maybe 5 lbs. boost and work my way up from there, will already have the heads o-ringed, of course... LATER! Todd....!! - -------- David A. Cooley wrote: > > At 04:07 PM 6/7/99 -0700, you wrote: > >WOW! Thanks a lot for that info! > > > >100 lb.hr is equivelant to how many HP? Or is that the right way to > >look at it?.... > > > > a V8 running 100 lb/hr injectors will have enough injector to fuel up to > 1280HP at 80% duty cycle on the injectors... > > >ALSO, If I plan on pushin say 1,000+ hp with a f.i.'d intercooled twin > >turbo 440 or 451 cu in engine, with a minimum of 15 lbs. boost under > >acceleration, what size injectors should I use at a minimum? > > > > probably 100lb/hr > > >What's the forumla for this, or where may I find the formulas for proper > >injector sizing for various apps? > > > > http://www.rceng.com/ > > Later, > Dave > > =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! > =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 10:18:28 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (okay, one more thing) THAT would be SO COOL! I DID have the opportunity to make it to the Hennessey Viper Shootout this past year(Right after Christmas, I believe) 26 Vipers showed up and one VERY slick lookin red Vette on a trailer... Vipers ranged from BONE Stock daily driven RT/10's to VERY low (10.1X) second VERY sprayed(400+hp shot) GTS's with lil rear slicks and tiny lil front runners... the fast one's went 135+ mph while the slowest were in the 12's... Some didn't know how to drag and just spun in every gear down the entire quarter, others missed a shift now and again... Was VERY fun at both ends of the track... Watchin em launch as well as watchin em cross the line at the big end at 130+! OPEN HEADERS!!(No side pipes rather) I got my fill of Vipers for the day on that day anyways, don't think I'd ever get sick of em no matter how much I was around em... They're are a very cool car! and I hop eto have one some day, even if I have to make one myself! LATER! Todd....!! http://www.c-com.net/~atc347/toddlnk.htm David A. Cooley wrote: > > At 07:14 PM 6/7/99 -0400, you wrote: > > It may not hit even 7000 RPM, but the sweetest sound I have heard was last > year in Munich... About 7:30-8pm every night, a pair of Vipers would race > down the main street in the section I was staying at... Export vipers have > no catalytic converters etc... As they flew past at an estimated 70-80MPH, > they were at or near redline in 2nd gear and were Music to my ears! > =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! > =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 10:45:50 -0500 From: steve ravet Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > > gearing. Federal law for emissions keeps law enforcement agencies to the > > same calibrations in the ECM's as civilian vehicles with the exception of > > top speed limiters. > > All of the above plus sway bars, and on Chevy vehicles, a slightly > more aggressive cam. Key word is slight. Years ago, police motors > were often, not always, 4-bolt mains. Chevy cop V8 (350) is what I put in my S-10 (from '91 Caprice cruiser). It's strong but doesn't pull anywhere near 7000 rpm. Not a 4 bolt either.... :-( - --steve - -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@xxx.com Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. www.arm.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:00:28 -0400 From: "Falb, John" Subject: RE: Tricolor LED Isn't a dual color LED essentially a three color, when both colors are illuminated at the same time? Well I did find a Multi-color LED from King Bright LED. In the Mouser catalog pg.70. RED/GREEN/BLUE/BLUE mouser stock number 604-lf59ebw. "This product is able to produce a wide range of colors... by simply varying the current to each of the LEDs." John Falb Can anyone direct me to a distributor of the tricolor LED? I have tried Digikey and Tech America. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 11:04:59 -0500 From: steve ravet Subject: Re: Tricolor LED Clarence Wood wrote: > > Can anyone direct me to a distributor of the tricolor LED? I have tried Digikey and Tech America. Digikey has bicolor LEDs on the last page of the catalog from Panasonic. You can turn on both colors at the same time to get a third color. Is that what you meant? - --steve > > IZCC #3426 > 1982 280ZX Turbo GL > 1966 El Camino > 1982 Yamaha Maxim XJ-1101J Motorcycle > 1975 Honda CB750 SS (black engine) > 1986 Snapper Comet lawn mower > Clarence Wood > Software&Such... > clarencewood@xxx.net > Savannah, TN. - -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@xxx.com Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. www.arm.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 12:11:56 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Dangers of fuel Enrichment Bill Edgeworth wrote: > He had a carb backfire during cranking and with the huge plenum on the > Manifold being filled with air and fuel it shattered the manifold. > Backfires of this type generally are not a problem with efi but if > anyone is running a big plenum that has enrichment during cranking > beware! > > Bill Edgeworth Certain model Oldsmobiles, say 1996 w/3.8l K engine had a calibration revisement due to this possibility. Olds bulletin stressed that the possibility was rare, and the conditions were complex. Nevertheless, some intakes had blown up (Uhh... GM said "fractured") during startup due to backfire. This problem was related to the engine and calibration and not the vehicle, so other makes were affected also. Bulletin no is 97-c-02 for anyone who is interested. Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 12:15:22 -0400 From: David Cooley Subject: Re: fuel pump question At 09:29 AM 6/8/99 -0700, you wrote: >Hi John, > >Please excuse the vagness of my post here... > >Once read about a fuzzy logic fuel pressure controller which controlled >the voltage to the pump based on some signal from the engine(Vacuum >maybe?) Kindof like a powervalve in a carb... > >But instead of limiting the fuel via a valve restriction, as most fuel >pressure regulators do(which restricts the entire system and puts limits >on the total amount of possible fuel delivery in time... It limits the >fuel pressure via the pump power, only pushes the pump voltage to the >amount needed.... Increases pump life, reduces overly pressurized overly >heated fuel and can pump enough fuel for any application due to its >inherent design... I think Ford and Chrysler do this with some of their "returnless" EFI systems... it really doesn't vary the voltage to the pump, but uses PWM to control the pressure. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 12:16:57 -0400 From: David Cooley Subject: Re: Injectors At 10:11 AM 6/8/99 -0700, you wrote: >WOW DAVE!, > >Thanks for that ULTIMATE link about injectors! > >Couldn't ask for more info, I don't believe... > >Will be printin a LOT of that web site for referencing! > >'Preciate it mang! > >100 lbs. may work great at WOT, but this is a daily driver man, must >have SOME sorta idle quality, even if at 1,200-1,500 rpm, dont want the >surging idle that I've heard so much about when runnin too large of >injectors... > >May just use some 70-80 lb'rs to begin with and go up from >there...depending on boost, will start out at maybe 5 lbs. boost and >work my way up from there, will already have the heads o-ringed, of >course... May want to use some 55 lb/hr injectors for good low speed idle etc, and a second set of 55 lb/hr injectors that come in above a certain TPS% and Boost pressure... =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 11:17:53 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (Viper as a F.I.'d factory race car) The Viper details: http://www.4adodge.com/viper/frameset_viper.html?features/power_perform&features&power_perform "The block is cast aluminum with cylinder liners of cast iron. You'll also find aluminum as the material of choice for Viper's pistons, cylinder heads, oil pan, intake manifold, water pump and transmission housing. Where maximum strength is important, you'll find steel. Forged steel for connecting rods and crankshaft and stainless steel for exhaust mani- folds. Magnesium is used for the rocker covers. This artfully crafted mass of metal is designed to do just one thing: generate huge quantities of raw power unmatched by any other American production automobile. This output of 450 horsepower at 5,200 rpm and 490 pound-feet of torque at 3,700 rpm seems mind-numbing, until you consider that the world-beating Viper GTS-R racing team has been able to extract upwards of 700 horsepower from the 8.0-liter engine." VIPER GTS COUPE MSRP........US $71925 VIPER RT/10 ROADSTER MSRP........US $69425 OUCH! LATER! Todd....!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 10:54:07 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: 10,000 rpm v8 - quick note for analysis by you guys... Quick note/info/question/poser?: If we took a 454(4.25 bore X 4 stroke) reduced/destroked it down to about 3.38 inch stroke(almost 3/4 inch, a 327's stroke is 3.25, a 350's stroke is 3.5, so this stroke is less than a 350!) would it be more capable of runnin 10K rpm? What if we took the same 'destroked' engine and bored it out, oh, say by .090, to 4.34 making an engine with a 4.34 bore and a 3.38 inch stroke! Would that be one awesome rapping engine or what? Another comparison of this monster motor would be taking a 350 and boring out it's stock 4.00 in. bore by .340 thousandths! They're normally only over bored by .060 thousandths MAX. .340 over is about 5.6 TIMES more overbored than a 350 is normally overbored.... If you calculate the cubes of such an engine they come out to about 400 cu inches.... this is the EXACT same dimensions of a 400 b-block mopar, found in a LOT of Mopars, mostly big ones! Mopar: 400 - 4.34 X 3.38 383 - 4.25 X 3.38 426 - 4.25 X 3.75 440 - 4.32 X 3.75 528 Hemi - 4.34? X 4.25? not sure... ANYWHO, all of these are REALLY powerful from the factory, from 325 hp to 600 hp, with F.I. and maybe a bit of boost, they can be double and even TRIPLE as powerful! My 440 will be pump in out at least double it's stock rating of 375 hp in the not too distant future due to f.i. and a bit of boost... It's already in the mid to upper 400 hp without the F.I. or Boost! PLUS I'll be gettin OVER 10 mpg with the f.i. alone! Up from a puny gas guzzlin' 6-7 mpg on the hiway now! YUK! Take er eazy! Todd....!! http://www.c-com.net/~atc347/toddlnk.htm Aaron Willis wrote: > > At 07:43 PM 6/7/99 -0700, you wrote: > >BUT - the race Hemi's (and race Wedges) were not available to the general > public. > > No. Sorry, I only meant to say that their DESIGN, not state of tune, was > competition-oriented. > > None of these engines would even start to > >approach 10 grand on your tach, anyway. > > Sure, I bet not. For the record, i doubt very much that anybody's street > V8 is gonna ever see 10K...just hitting the thread where I can here!! > > > >The street Hemi's were OK for Grandma to drive, and were a dime a dozen (in > >comparison), but could hardly be considered quick; same for the run of the > mill 427 > >and 454 BBC's. > >rap > > > > > With so many different 427s and 454s available, the doggier ones were I'm > sure NOT quick. But the hot ones...makes me wish I was alive back then! > Ah well... > > Aaron Willis > ICQ #27386985 > AOL IM: hemiyota > http://surf.to/garage-te51 Garage TE51 International ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 11:19:40 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) Howdy Squash... I'm NOT the all show no go type... You should see some of my vehicles, I don't think many are very 'show'y, some of them are VERY 'GO'ey though! The Bee and the Jag are both a bit rusty in the quarters n such...but they do tend to BOOK! But I DO surely belive in that if it DON'T go then SURE AS HECK make it LOOK like it does at least! ALSO, if a "bred for performance Viper ACR, 450+ hp, producing 460 horsepower and 500 pound-feet of torque, and features one-piece 18-inch BBS wheels, Koni racing shocks, Meritor springs, K&N air filters, a five-point restraint system and more, including special ACR badging and graphics." >From the factory ain't nuff HP to get ya thinkin that a car ain't a racer, I dunno what will? Maybe the 700+ hp from the Viper ACR? VIPER GTS COUPE MSRP........US $71925 VIPER RT/10 ROADSTER MSRP........US $69425 LATER! Todd....!! Guess it depends Squash wrote: > > --- ".." wrote: > > Todd; > > It's starting to sound like you'd be impressed by a > > Yugo with Racing > > Stripes!! > > rap > > That factory was blown up by NATO bombs, by the way. > > > > > "Todd....!!" wrote: > > > > > Oops Andy, ya pretty much put your foot in your > > mouth this time... > > No, I never do that! > > > > > > > Viper GTSR, Viper GTS-ACR.... > > > > > > These are two production built race cars, come > > with full 5 point harness > > > seat belts, etc etc... > > Kewl! > > > > > > > They were and are Designed, Produced and Sold for > > racing... > > There is an exception to every rule, but they don't > spin 10,000 RPM, either. As a RULE, there are no > production racecars. > > andy > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 12:56:40 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Dangers of fuel Enrichment > Thanks for the warning about em, I DO beleive a popoff valve would've > allowed him to still be runnin that roaster, what do ya think? This is why nitromethane funny cars, top fuel dragsters, and prolly prostock (not sure however) REQUIRE chains from the blower to the frame, the heads to the frame, and the intake to the frame, and solid motor mounts. This ensures as you push the limits, the flying parts remain in the vicinity of the vehicle, and not flying into the stands. Never broken a chain yet! Though, many, many arp fasteners have disappeared entirely. - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport CT 06606 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 13:01:11 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Tricolor LED > Isn't a dual color LED essentially a three color, when both colors are > illuminated at the same time? Well I did find a Multi-color LED from King Yes. One color one with voltage one way, another color with voltage the other way, and a third, combined color with AC. > Bright LED. In the Mouser catalog pg.70. RED/GREEN/BLUE/BLUE mouser stock > number 604-lf59ebw. "This product is able to produce a wide range of > colors... by simply varying the current to each of the LEDs." I saw that one a while back... it was designed for wall sized television screens, as RGB is the same signal from computer monitors and most newer televisions. I believe its a Sony part. - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport CT 06606 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 12:59:27 -0400 From: "Peter D. Hipson" Subject: Re: Tricolor LED Try Radio Sludge, they should have them. Tri-color led's are common, not too difficult to find. Mouser also carries them. Any Red/Green bi-color led should do yellow when both red and green are on at the same time. At 08:51 AM 6/8/99 -0500, you wrote: > Can anyone direct me to a distributor of the tricolor LED? I have tried Digikey and Tech America. > >IZCC #3426 > 1982 280ZX Turbo GL > 1966 El Camino > 1982 Yamaha Maxim XJ-1101J Motorcycle > 1975 Honda CB750 SS (black engine) > 1986 Snapper Comet lawn mower >Clarence Wood >Software&Such... >clarencewood@xxx.net >Savannah, TN. > > Thanks, Peter Hipson (founder, NEHOG) 1995 White NA Hummer Wagon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 11:34:53 -0600 From: "Kevin Yachimec" Subject: Re: 02 Sensors I missed which Honda model/year/motor uses the Honda/NTK sensors. If anyone one knows a Honda part number could you please post it. I noticed a Vout/AF graph on the ftp for a NTK should I use this graph for the Honda sensor as well? Thanks in advance. Kevin Yachimec Cybertech Automation Inc. Edmonton Alberta Canada keviny@xxx.ca - ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Hermann To: Sent: June 7, 1999 7:34 AM Subject: Re: 02 Sensors > >Industrial grade uego.......thanks for letting us know! > >Espen. > >How is egor doin these days? > > I too have heard this urban legend--but would almost lay odds that it was > started by a Horiba lawyer just as likely as whichever meter mfgr Gar is > talking about! > > Greg > > > > > >> But there's also a current marketing/disinformation myth that one of the > >> well-known US mfgs. of high end AFR meters has been promoting, which is > >> that the stock Honda/NTK sensors are "not suitable for measuring rich > >> AFR, and will only last a short time in this environment", > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 10:58:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Squash Subject: Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) - --- "Todd....!!" wrote: > But I DO surely belive in that if it DON'T go then > SURE AS HECK make it > LOOK like it does at least! I agree. > ALSO, if a "bred for performance Viper ACR, 450+ hp, > producing 460 > horsepower and 500 pound-feet of torque, and > features one-piece 18-inch > BBS wheels, Koni racing shocks, Meritor springs, K&N > air filters, a > five-point restraint system and more, including > special ACR badging and > graphics." > > >From the factory ain't nuff HP to get ya thinkin > that a car ain't a > racer, I dunno what will? Maybe the 700+ hp from > the Viper ACR? Well I really don't think of the vipers as race cars, just very good street machines. They do end right where racecars start, tho! The same with the factory corvettes. Its all opinion, and like I said, there are exceptions to every rule. Over and Out, Squash _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #345 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".