DIY_EFI Digest Tuesday, June 8 1999 Volume 04 : Number 346 In this issue: Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) Re: 10,000 RPM Re: dummy Re: 02 Sensors Re: Dangers of fuel Enrichment Re: 02 Sensors Re: vipers Re: 02 Sensors Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) Re: 02 Sensors Re: New Microchip PIC processor. Pressure adjustments affecting settings Re: New Microchip PIC processor. Topic Re: 10,000 RPM Re: Injectors Re: Topic Re: Injectors Re: Dangers of fuel Enrichment Yugos...still ticking (was 10krpm thread) External Fuel Pump was [Re: Injectors] Re: 02 Sensors Re: 10,000 RPM Re: Topic scan tool bin files Re: New Microchip PIC processor. You too can be a Blues Brother (was 10k rpm) Re: What mfg are GM eproms? No metric essay content fuzzy logic fuel pump - was Re: fuel pump question Re: Injectors Re: New Microchip PIC processor. Edelbrock TBI conversion to PI Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (Viper Sports Cars Class) See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 11:24:03 -0700 From: ".." Subject: Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) Squash wrote: > --- ".." wrote: > > Todd; > > It's starting to sound like you'd be impressed by a > > Yugo with Racing > > Stripes!! > > rap > > That factory was blown up by NATO bombs, by the way. > Hmmm, maybe something good came from all that bombing after all... rap ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 11:28:32 -0700 From: ".." Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM > --- Steve Gorkowski wrote: > > Ford has a production V8 built Police cars and > > Mustangs to handle 7k > > over and over all over the USA and puts a warranty > > on it. I think Steve must be referring to the old CHP Mustangs that would spin up near 7000 with the roller cams, HD valve springs and shorty headers... Dunno if they continued that program for the 4.6 mill, though... rap ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 04:38:31 +1000 From: Peter Gargano Subject: Re: dummy Usually means a microcomputer device from Microchip See http://www.microchip.com/ Geffro wrote: > > What's PIC ? > TIA > Geoff - -- Peter Gargano ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 13:43:24 -0500 From: steve ravet Subject: Re: 02 Sensors >From the archive (search line Honda part number 395986 from 1993 Honda Civic VX * This is a UEGO exhaust sensor: * Cost $130ish * Has same wires and colors as the NTK $600 sensor.. * Same compensating resistance in the plug too... * The UEGO body markings are the same as the one from Horiba ($900+) MEXA analyzer .. * Honda wiring diags from Civic VX show same ckt. annotations as the NTK fax I received .. For heater: orange Vh+ yellow Vh- For Sensor: red Vs+ black Vs- / Ip- white Ip+ Kevin Yachimec wrote: > > I missed which Honda model/year/motor uses the Honda/NTK sensors. If anyone > one knows a Honda part number could you please post it. > > I noticed a Vout/AF graph on the ftp for a NTK should I use this graph for > the Honda sensor as well? > > Thanks in advance. > > Kevin Yachimec > Cybertech Automation Inc. > Edmonton Alberta Canada > keviny@xxx.ca > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Greg Hermann > To: > Sent: June 7, 1999 7:34 AM > Subject: Re: 02 Sensors > > > >Industrial grade uego.......thanks for letting us know! > > >Espen. > > >How is egor doin these days? > > > > I too have heard this urban legend--but would almost lay odds that it was > > started by a Horiba lawyer just as likely as whichever meter mfgr Gar is > > talking about! > > > > Greg > > > > > > > > >> But there's also a current marketing/disinformation myth that one of > the > > >> well-known US mfgs. of high end AFR meters has been promoting, which is > > >> that the stock Honda/NTK sensors are "not suitable for measuring rich > > >> AFR, and will only last a short time in this environment", > > > > > > - -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@xxx.com Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. www.arm.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 11:47:11 -0700 From: "soren" Subject: Re: Dangers of fuel Enrichment > > Certain model Oldsmobiles, say 1996 w/3.8l K engine had a calibration > revisement due to this possibility. Olds bulletin stressed that the > possibility was rare, and the conditions were complex. Nevertheless, > some intakes had blown up (Uhh... GM said "fractured") during startup > due to backfire. This problem was related to the engine and > calibration and not the vehicle, so other makes were affected also. > Bulletin no is 97-c-02 for anyone who is interested. This only applied to those vehicles with the plastic intake manifolds. I don't think the backfire was ever a concern with the metal intakes. One of the conditions required for the backfire to occur was a very short cranking cycle (a lot of people buying those BOP H and W-cars seem to think it should only take only a half-second or so of cranking to start their car, as well as thinking the interior trim should never rattle under any conditions and they shouldn't be able to feel the torque converter clutch come on). Soren ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 13:47:28 -0500 From: steve ravet Subject: Re: 02 Sensors Here's the complete reply, before I accidently hit the send button. Sorry. Here's an answer from the archives (search string honda and part and number and sensor and o2 ): Honda part number 395986 from 1993 Honda Civic VX * This is a UEGO exhaust sensor: * Cost $130ish * Has same wires and colors as the NTK $600 sensor.. * Same compensating resistance in the plug too... * The UEGO body markings are the same as the one from Horiba ($900+) MEXA analyzer .. * Honda wiring diags from Civic VX show same ckt. annotations as the NTK fax I received .. For heater: orange Vh+ yellow Vh- For Sensor: red Vs+ black Vs- / Ip- white Ip+ - ------------------------------------------------------------------ Coincidently enough, that excerpt came from a post I made, in response to the same question, earlier this year, and the information came from yet an earlier post, that I found in the archives. :-) - --steve Kevin Yachimec wrote: > > I missed which Honda model/year/motor uses the Honda/NTK sensors. If anyone > one knows a Honda part number could you please post it. > > I noticed a Vout/AF graph on the ftp for a NTK should I use this graph for > the Honda sensor as well? > > Thanks in advance. > > Kevin Yachimec > Cybertech Automation Inc. > Edmonton Alberta Canada > keviny@xxx.ca > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Greg Hermann > To: > Sent: June 7, 1999 7:34 AM > Subject: Re: 02 Sensors > > > >Industrial grade uego.......thanks for letting us know! > > >Espen. > > >How is egor doin these days? > > > > I too have heard this urban legend--but would almost lay odds that it was > > started by a Horiba lawyer just as likely as whichever meter mfgr Gar is > > talking about! > > > > Greg > > > > > > > > >> But there's also a current marketing/disinformation myth that one of > the > > >> well-known US mfgs. of high end AFR meters has been promoting, which is > > >> that the stock Honda/NTK sensors are "not suitable for measuring rich > > >> AFR, and will only last a short time in this environment", > > > > > > - -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@xxx.com Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. www.arm.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 11:53:03 -0700 From: "soren" Subject: Re: vipers > Some didn't know how to drag and just spun in every gear down the entire > quarter, others missed a shift now and again... Was VERY fun at both > ends of the track... Watchin em launch as well as watchin em cross the > line at the big end at 130+! OPEN HEADERS!!(No side pipes rather) A guy brings his Viper to our local autocrosses. I think a good driver could really turn some great times with one of those cars. We always get a smoke show: smoke from locked brakes going into a turn, smoke from spinning tires coming out. It's fun to watch the women grab their babies and run when he starts looping it coming into a hairpin headed toward the spectator's area! Soren ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 10:40:26 -0700 From: Sandy Ganz Subject: Re: 02 Sensors Gar good to see that you back by the way! Now if we could get people to stop BS'ing about traction devices and other non related topics this list might become useful again... this was the DIYEFI list or something. Sandy At 07:47 PM 6/7/99 -0700, you wrote: >On Mon, 7 Jun 1999 07:34:44 -0600, bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) wrote: > >>I too have heard this urban legend--but would almost lay odds that it was >>started by a Horiba lawyer just as likely as whichever meter mfgr Gar is >>talking about! > >Hahahaha, yeah, now THAT would be a good one! Taking "turnabout is fair >play" to a bizarre extreme. Hee. Just spose Horiba first issued this >nonsense to diss the competition, thinking that with their exclusive >agreement with NTK, nobody could fight this bullshit, NOR prove it >false;... but INSTEAD of this one competitor trying to fight the >propaganda, they EMBRACE it instead !!, claim their sensors ALSO come >directly from NTK, and therefore don't suffer from this dread "richness" >disease EITHER, whilst all the while buying them from their local Honda >dealer. Bwahahahaha. Yeah, now THAT's the usual automotive >snakeoil/diss'ing I've become all too used to, only on steroids this >time! > >Whada world, eh? The same guy that owns this well-known company was the >one that told me personally on the phone when I first started getting >interested in this whole topic (I mentioned this some time back on DIY), >that it would take someone 5yrs of engineering development to build >their own AFR meter, it was so 'difficult'. He apparently propagates all >these cute little myths to even his distributors, so he's formed a cadre >of unsuspecting dupes, all working to discourage others from hobby >investigation or entering the market, while he sucks contentedly on the >teets of his lil cash cow. Sheesh, whada shyster. > >Honest technical prowess I can respect, but a major case of muddying the >waters to make them look deep, merits the "used-car salesman" warning >label, IMO. > >Gar ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 12:06:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Squash Subject: Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (how about Pro Stock?) - --- ".." wrote: > > That factory was blown up by NATO bombs, by the > way. > > > > Hmmm, maybe something good came from all that > bombing after all... > rap Supposedly the plant was making bombs or shells or other bad things. So there go the smartbombs! Andy _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 13:23:44 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: 02 Sensors >I missed which Honda model/year/motor uses the Honda/NTK sensors. If anyone >one knows a Honda part number could you please post it. 93--95 Civic VTEC--If ya ask nice Grumpy prolly has the part # handy. I only have it "somewhere"! Greg > >I noticed a Vout/AF graph on the ftp for a NTK should I use this graph for >the Honda sensor as well? > >Thanks in advance. > >Kevin Yachimec ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 12:57:08 -0700 From: "K. Toyofuku" Subject: Re: New Microchip PIC processor. > Guys, > Microchip has just put into production an intesting fully flash processor > which might be just about right for DIY_EFI applications: > > http://www.microchip.com/10/Lit/PICmicro/16F87X/index.htm > pretty cool little processor... > > This little guy contains all sort of goodies including: > Uart > PWM > 5 or 8 channel 10bit A to D converters > 8kwords Flash for Program AND/OR data > i/o out the wazoo > > The important thing here is that uchip has finally done two things to their > flash parts: > 1) Included enough space (8K) to use useful > 2) Allowed the processor to read/write the program space at runtime. This > would be very useful for fuel maps and the like. Prior to this processor - > that sort of thing would have required addition components. > i thought that there was another chip out there that did all of that already...hmm.. i can't remember which one it was.... > > Best of all - you can do in circuit programming and breakpointing via a > 3-pin interface, via a $150 MPLAB-ICD device. Thats a nice price. > > The parts are supposed to be something like $8. Not sure if it has been in > production long enough to actually be acquireable or not. > now that's a good deal. > > Thought someone might care about this. > -Bill > i do. i'm new to this diy dfi thing, so what do you recomemd to look for in microcontrollers when building your own dfi. i've used motorola's 68hc11's (i don't think that they could hack it..) and some strong arm stuff to build dataloggers and other non-car related devices. is there an advantage to using PIC? i figured a microcontroller that had lots of I/0 lines @ 10 to 15bits of resolution, decent processor speed, lots of RAM and EEPROM, and uart. what else? thanks > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 13:00:54 -0700 From: Barry Schwartz Subject: Pressure adjustments affecting settings If I adjust the WOT throttle mixture ratio by adjusting the fuel pressure will it adversely affect the fuel range at cruise and idle or will the ECU adjust using closed loop operation? I need to make the WOT mixture leaner (black smoke, chugging) and am a little fearful that if I adjust the fuel pressure too much to low to alleviate the WOT problem, then i will be running way to lean at light throttle and cruise. Also, does anyone have the voltage or resistance I should be seeing at idle on a GM 2.8 V6 truck throttle body injection system? I need to make sure that I have the TPS set correctly. Thanks for any help Barry Schwartz (San Diego) bschwart@xxx.net 72 FI, V6 Spitfire (daily driver) 70 GT6+ (when I don't drive the Spit) 70 Spitfire (long term project) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 16:20:14 -0400 From: David Cooley Subject: Re: New Microchip PIC processor. At 12:57 PM 6/8/99 -0700, you wrote: >i do. i'm new to this diy dfi thing, so what do you recomemd to look for in >microcontrollers when building your own dfi. i've used motorola's 68hc11's (i >don't think that they could hack it..) and some strong arm stuff to build >dataloggers and other non-car related devices. is there an advantage to using >PIC? Why don't you think the HC11 could hack it? GM has been using it for quite a few years as a controller for the PCM's. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 15:25:50 -0500 From: bkibbe Subject: Topic Sorry about stepping on your topic, it seems this is the only way I can get in to respond. Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > > Isn't a dual color LED essentially a three color, when both colors are > > illuminated at the same time? Well I did find a Multi-color LED from King > > Yes. One color one with voltage one way, another color with voltage > the other way, and a third, combined color with AC. > > > Bright LED. In the Mouser catalog pg.70. RED/GREEN/BLUE/BLUE mouser stock > > number 604-lf59ebw. "This product is able to produce a wide range of > > colors... by simply varying the current to each of the LEDs." > > I saw that one a while back... it was designed for wall sized > television screens, as RGB is the same signal from computer monitors > and most newer televisions. I believe its a Sony part. > > -- > > Frederic Breitwieser > Bridgeport CT 06606 > > 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental > 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy > 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos > 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 15:11:22 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM Oh? Are the cop cars available to the general public? I didn't think they were? Are ya sure? How much and where do we order one? LATER, Todd.... - ------------- eclark@xxx.com wrote: > > >From what I understand GM only does durability mods to thier police car > engines. Like silicone hoses, oil cooler, things of that nature. Even > still last I heard the Camaro still holds the title of fastest production > police pursuit car. And the 96 Caprice still holds the title of the > fastest production four door police vehicle. Although I think that may be > in top speed only. > > On Mon, 7 Jun 1999, Steve Gorkowski wrote: > > > Ford has a production V8 built Police cars and Mustangs to handle 7k > > over and over all over the USA and puts a warranty on it. This engine > > will go higher if you bypass EFI but then your on your own . I think in > > the price range that can be considered a high rpm engine. It puts a high > > RPM engine in the hands of the average person. The Chevy Police car must > > do the same. > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 15:33:30 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Injectors What computer could I use for multiple(dual) port injector setup like that? Was just gonna use somethin like the 'speed brain' or some sorta t-bac system for my EFI, THAT'S why I'm on the DIY_EFI list, to learn about which the best most economical system I could use for this setup is! Thanks for the input/advice, sounds like a very nice alternative, if I can find an economical dual injector/cyl computer, that is... LATER! Todd....!! - -------- David Cooley wrote: > > At 10:11 AM 6/8/99 -0700, you wrote: > >WOW DAVE!, > > > >Thanks for that ULTIMATE link about injectors! > > > >Couldn't ask for more info, I don't believe... > > > >Will be printin a LOT of that web site for referencing! > > > >'Preciate it mang! > > > >100 lbs. may work great at WOT, but this is a daily driver man, must > >have SOME sorta idle quality, even if at 1,200-1,500 rpm, dont want the > >surging idle that I've heard so much about when runnin too large of > >injectors... > > > >May just use some 70-80 lb'rs to begin with and go up from > >there...depending on boost, will start out at maybe 5 lbs. boost and > >work my way up from there, will already have the heads o-ringed, of > >course... > > May want to use some 55 lb/hr injectors for good low speed idle etc, and a > second set of 55 lb/hr injectors that come in above a certain TPS% and > Boost pressure... > > =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated! > =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 17:19:22 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Topic > Sorry about stepping on your topic, it seems this is the only way I can > get in to respond. Not a problem for me :) - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport CT 06606 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 17:45:27 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Injectors > What computer could I use for multiple(dual) port injector setup like > that? Well, I wouldn't want to design or build a system based on one or two big-ass 100lb injectors. If one gets stuck closed, you'd lose 1/2 your fuel and lean out. Underboost, you'd detonate something fierce. If the reverse happened, where one injector got stuck open, you'd have a flood, possibly a fire if the engine even runs at all. This is one of the things I do like about multiple injectors, spread around the intake runners, i.e. one injector per cylinder. Fire 'em sequentially, batch, a combination of the two, whatever, however if one injector goes bad, on a V8 engine you could in theory limp home with crappy performance. But, you more than likely could get home. Also, if you calculated out that you need two (see dual above) 100lb injectors, that's 200lbs worth of injector performance at an 80% duty cycle, divided by "banks" or "cylinders" depending how you want to fire them, and you have smaller, less costly injectors. An 18lb injector is cheaper than a 36lb injector which is cheaper than a 100lb injector, typically, assuming the same vendor/manufacturer. And of course, if you test them and determine the approximate flow, you can get junkyard injectors for practically nothing, and put together a nearly matched set. > which the best most economical system I could use for this setup is! The least aggrevating method of EFI for your needs based on what we discussed would be the Electromotive Unit. Buy the unit "naked" and get all the GM sensors, injectors, etc, from the local you-pull-it junkyard and wire it up. Cut the wires long to all the sensors/injectors so you have wires to play with as well as the proper connectors. Makes life easy down the road. > can find an economical dual injector/cyl computer, that is... Well, if you want dual injectors per cylinder, lets talk about this :) My 849HP Buick V6 ran three injectors per cylinder... all junkyard injectors. Stage I - managed by the Haltach ECM. Stage II - logical "and" between the Pulsewidth of Stage I and the boost pressure. Meaning, that the Stage II injectors don't fire unless the same injector in Stage I fires "AND" the boost is over 9-10lbs of pressure. Stage III - local "and" between the Pulsewidth of Stage I and the boost pressure (higher), meaning that the Stage III injectors (Isopropol/distilled water mixture) doesn't fire unless the same injector in Stage I fires "AND" the boost was over 15lbs of pressure. We did this using mosfets and op-amps, probably violating most of the "rules" associated with electronics engineering, however it worked. LM324's are a generic op-amp and we used it to measure the boost in the plenum, which fed an "ordinary" cmos buffer gate which then fed a CMOS AND gate, which the other leg of said AND gate was fed by a 2n2222 transistor attached to the injector fire lead on the injector. wasn't all that complex, though being an analog/digital mix with the programmable Haltach unit thinking something else was happening, adjusting this setup was an absolute nasty bitch. However, 849 HP out of a Buick V6 with three injectors per cylinder is nothing to laugh at. It worked, it worked well, and I should grab my notebook from the shop and post some more of the details in the wiring. Though, if I can do it, so can you. Just because I used the Haltach unit, doesn't mean you're locked into it. The key is controlling the maps in the ECM, whichever one you choose, to ensure that over a certain boost level, when stage II and stage III kicks in, the tables for injector pulsewidth LEVEL OFF, thus not increasing the time the injectors are open. As stage two started firing... performance dipped because the mixture was slightly rich, until the RPMs and boost kept going up, in which case it leveled off. This indicates to me that we didn't have the threshold just right, and some of the pulsewidth settings in the Haltach might also have been off. Stage III wasn't a problem as its isopropol, and it cooled off the cylinders a bit yet still burned. It was a mess. Two fuel tanks (one gas, one alky/water) and three in-tank fuel pumps. Two in the gas, one in the alky, all wired on for constant pressure, which varied at the rails between 45-50 depending on the engine RPMs and load. More load, less pressure, as the fuel(s) were disappearing faster, and stock pumps are... well... mediocre. If you can, use Ford F150 pumps from the 89-93 model years... they are external, don't seemed to be bothered by isopropol, and did I say external and easily replacible? . Hope that helped. - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport CT 06606 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 18:18:37 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Dangers of fuel Enrichment soren wrote: > > > (a lot of people buying those BOP H and W-cars seem to think it > should only take only a half-second or so of cranking to start their car, > as well as thinking the interior trim should never rattle under any > conditions > > Soren Bad memories here. I don't even want to think about some of the stuff I had to go through with interior noises. Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 18:28:09 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Yugos...still ticking (was 10krpm thread) Squash wrote: > > --- ".." wrote: > > > That factory was blown up by NATO bombs, by the > > way. > > > > > > > Hmmm, maybe something good came from all that > > bombing after all... > > rap > > Supposedly the plant was making bombs or shells or > other bad things. So there go the smartbombs! > > Andy > The timer on a Yugo was set at 2 yrs. But like everything else on the car, it often failed to work correctly. This allowed the car to run for years, going off at random times with no prior warning. Detonate a Yugo: the life you save may be your own. Ok, thread's dead to me. Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 15:31:08 -0700 (PDT) From: pjb@xxx.com (Pete Boggini) Subject: External Fuel Pump was [Re: Injectors] Frederic Breitwieser said: > > If you can, use Ford F150 pumps from the 89-93 model years... they are > external, don't seemed to be bothered by isopropol, and did I say > external and easily replacible? . > This is the Airtex E2000 that I mentioned a while back on this list. Its the one I'm using in my '65 Mustang with '87 5.0 EFI. Its also around $100.00 which is pretty cheap when you start pricing some of the external pumps. Other specs are 80-100 PSI, 35-40 GPH. Pretty healthy pump for what you pay. peterb - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Boggini Systems Administrator/Corporate Operations E-mail: pjb@xxx.com Phone: (650)933-6858 - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 15:50:39 -0700 From: garfield@xxx.com (Gar Willis) Subject: Re: 02 Sensors On Tue, 8 Jun 1999 13:23:44 -0600, bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) wrote: >93--95 Civic VTEC--If ya ask nice Grumpy prolly has the part # handy. I >only have it "somewhere"! Speakin of the Ole Grump, I haven't seen anything posted, so I was wondering if the persons Dr. Pelican mentioned as keeping track and letting us know how he's doing, would let us know if he's in hospital. When I don't hear any emissions from CSH, HQ I get to wondering how the transplantee is doin. Gar ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 18:56:35 -0300 From: "Ord Millar" Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM Factory redline on mine is 7000. (Acutally, the red line is painted at 6800, but fuel cutoff doesn't happen till 7000). I know some who have moved their rev limiters up to 7400 or so, but that's mostly just for "head room", they still need to be shifted at 7K, because power is dropping off. - -----Original Message----- From: Frederic Breitwieser To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 3:29 PM Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM >> No one that I know of... Highest factory redline I've seen on any newer V8 >> is between 5500 and 6500... >> Sure would sound cool to hear open exhaust on a healthy V8 at 10,000RPM! > >Take out the factory limitor, and mash the pedal :) The question is, >how long will it last :( > > >-- > >Frederic Breitwieser >Bridgeport CT 06606 > >1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental >1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy >1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos >2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 18:01:25 -0500 From: Bill Kibbe Subject: Re: Topic scan tool bin files Hello group, I am currently using a Hickok NGS New Generation Star Tester for my EEC IV and EEC V work. Since I work for Ford, I am using the Ford specific version of software. Since Ford announced this month that NGS is now no longer the "Ford Specific" scan tool starting with the new LS 2000 Lincoln introduced this month. So Ford will no longer support the NGS tool starting July 1st. That means no more software updates will be provided on a monthly basis on the SBTS update disk. Instead Ford will be introducing the WDS (World Diagnostic System) next month. Here is my problem, I would like to make a couple of backup PCMCIA program cards for my NGS in case my personal cards get lost or damaged. So far I have been able to copy the bin files from the program card to a floppy disk. However I run into problems when i try to load these files on to a generic PCMCIA flash card.I get a JEDIA-OP error. I am using the same CardTalk software that the SBST uses to upgrade the Hickok cards. What I would like to find out is if anyone knows if there is software available to decode bin files so I can identify the programs on the card. Or any other suggestions that may enable me to transfer these files. bkibbe wrote: > Sorry about stepping on your topic, it seems this is the only way I can > get in to respond. > > Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > > > > Isn't a dual color LED essentially a three color, when both colors are > > > illuminated at the same time? Well I did find a Multi-color LED from King > > > > Yes. One color one with voltage one way, another color with voltage > > the other way, and a third, combined color with AC. > > > > > Bright LED. In the Mouser catalog pg.70. RED/GREEN/BLUE/BLUE mouser stock > > > number 604-lf59ebw. "This product is able to produce a wide range of > > > colors... by simply varying the current to each of the LEDs." > > > > I saw that one a while back... it was designed for wall sized > > television screens, as RGB is the same signal from computer monitors > > and most newer televisions. I believe its a Sony part. > > > > -- > > > > Frederic Breitwieser > > Bridgeport CT 06606 > > > > 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental > > 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy > > 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos > > 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 19:29:05 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: New Microchip PIC processor. K. Toyofuku wrote: > i'm new to this diy dfi thing, so what do you recomemd to look for in > microcontrollers when building your own dfi. i've used motorola's 68hc11's (i > don't think that they could hack it..) This is ironic. I'm learning about 68hc11's because that's what GM uses in their ECMs Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 20:01:14 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: You too can be a Blues Brother (was 10k rpm) Todd....!! wrote: > > Oh? Are the cop cars available to the general public? > > I didn't think they were? > > Are ya sure? > > How much and where do we order one? > > LATER, > > Todd.... > > ------------- Cop auctions, search web for BC09 for some info. (Police option code for GM) There's mailing lists, web pages, yada yada. Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 18:44:03 -0500 From: Jason Haines Subject: Re: What mfg are GM eproms? No metric essay content At 04:44 PM 6/7/99 -0600, you wrote: > >>Some of the proms (TI is good about this) have the part number and >>manufacturer's name etched on the substrate. Use a 50 power microscope >>to look through the window and look around. >> Many/most of the GM PROMs I have checked have the silicon signature information on the chip so with a PROM reader/programmer like a Dataman S4 you should be able to use the silicon signature command to get the chip type. Hope this helps, Jason ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 18:52:27 -0500 From: Jason Haines Subject: fuzzy logic fuel pump - was Re: fuel pump question Lucus was developing such a system a few years ago - I don't know if it has gone to production yet. I think the newest Mustang Cobra uses a "smart pump" that does this as well - a feedback system with a fuel pressure sensor on the rail. Fuel pump noise, packaging size, higher fuel pressures and higher horsepower levels are "fueling" 8-) the need for these devices. Kenne Bell sells an aftermarket system ("Boost-A-Pump") that does a similar thing through the use of a pressure sensor - when the manifold pressure (or vacuum for naturally aspirated engines) gets to a certain level, the voltage to the pump is increased to a set voltage which increases the pumps flow capability. Jason At 09:29 AM 6/8/99 -0700, you wrote: >Hi John, > >Please excuse the vagness of my post here... > >Once read about a fuzzy logic fuel pressure controller which controlled >the voltage to the pump based on some signal from the engine(Vacuum >maybe?) Kindof like a powervalve in a carb... > >But instead of limiting the fuel via a valve restriction, as most fuel >pressure regulators do(which restricts the entire system and puts limits >on the total amount of possible fuel delivery in time... It limits the >fuel pressure via the pump power, only pushes the pump voltage to the >amount needed.... Increases pump life, reduces overly pressurized overly >heated fuel and can pump enough fuel for any application due to its >inherent design... > >Can't remember the brand of the fuzzy logic system, this is why I asked >to be excused due to my vagness.... > >Hope I shed some light, or at least re-shed it... > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 18:56:33 -0500 From: Jason Haines Subject: Re: Injectors In addition to the web site someone posted, MSD sells a cheap program that does a pretty good job of estimating fuel injector size requirements, total fuel flow requirements and airflow requirements (the program is even nice enough to offer suggested MSD injector part numbers 8-) ). You can also just create a spread sheet in Excel or something - I'll try and post some of the equations. Jason At 04:07 PM 6/7/99 -0700, you wrote: >WOW! Thanks a lot for that info! > >100 lb.hr is equivelant to how many HP? Or is that the right way to >look at it?.... > >ALSO, If I plan on pushin say 1,000+ hp with a f.i.'d intercooled twin >turbo 440 or 451 cu in engine, with a minimum of 15 lbs. boost under >acceleration, what size injectors should I use at a minimum? > >What's the forumla for this, or where may I find the formulas for proper >injector sizing for various apps? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 17:16:49 -0700 From: "K. Toyofuku" Subject: Re: New Microchip PIC processor. > t 12:57 PM 6/8/99 -0700, you wrote: > > >i do. i'm new to this diy dfi thing, so what do you recomemd to look for in > >microcontrollers when building your own dfi. i've used motorola's 68hc11's (i > >don't think that they could hack it..) and some strong arm stuff to build > >dataloggers and other non-car related devices. is there an advantage to using > >PIC? > > Why don't you think the HC11 could hack it? > GM has been using it for quite a few years as a controller for the PCM's. > really? that's interesting. i guess i didn't think that they could hack it b/c they run at about 2MHz, don't have a lot of I/0 lines (unless you get the 52 pin), and were generally pretty old. i guess that's my fault. i figured that there were better out there. so, let me rephrase that, HC11's could hack it, but they can be improved upon. > > =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated! > =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 17:16:47 PDT From: David Sagers Subject: Edelbrock TBI conversion to PI Last night I was looking thru the new Jeg’s catalog and saw the Edelbrock kit for converting a GM TBI to a port injection system, includes manifold, injectors, fuel pump... The description says that it uses the TBI computer. Now Edelbrock makes some fine intake manifolds, but the total cost on the kit is some $1100. Since I already own most of the parts for a TPI intake, I am wondering how to make the TBI computer for my ‘92 SBC Suburban fire all eight injectors if I install the TPI. Is it as simple as a harness that plugs into the existing TBI harness or is there more to it? Seems that a computer designed to drive two TBI injectors would lack something necessary to drive eight TPI injectors, maybe that’s why the kit is $1,000. What else to I need to change to make the TPI conversion? Would I be better off buying the Painless Wiring harness and using a TPI computer instead of the TBI computer? _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 17:15:56 -0700 From: ".." Subject: Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (Viper Sports Cars Class) "Todd....!!" wrote: > ALSO, if a "bred for performance Viper ACR, 450+ hp, producing 460 > horsepower and 500 pound-feet of torque, and features one-piece 18-inch > BBS wheels, Koni racing shocks, Meritor springs, K&N air filters, a > five-point restraint system and more, including special ACR badging and > graphics." AhhhHa, now we're onto something.. Let's see, the old '77 Ranchero parked along side the garage, that we use about once a month or less for odd errands, has a 466 cu.in. Racing Head Service motor (Memphis, Tenn) that dynoed at 508 hp, has a sorta rusty chrome Moroso Air Cleaner, 1 piece smoothy chrome wheels w/50 series tires, Genuine Sears air shocks, 2 old '77 vintage seat belts, the only "badges" are the old GT stripes; will qualify as a Hot Sports Car after all... Ooops, hold the phone, the beefed C6 won't let you shift at 10k though. Jeez, I was just getting ready to go out and wash the dirty 'ol beast, then cruise on down to the Jag/Porche/Ferrari Dealer for show and tell.. Well at least the 'ol gal sets as low as a Viper.. Oh, well, I'll park it next to a Viper next time i'm down at one of the Casino's for lunch - being in like company oughto make the 'ol gal feel a little better... rap ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #346 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. 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