DIY_EFI Digest Wednesday, June 9 1999 Volume 04 : Number 348 In this issue: Re: Metric essay Re: 02 Sensors RE: Metric essay Re: Edelbrock TBI conversion to PI Re: 10,000 RPM Re: 10,000 RPM Re: 02 Sensors Re: o2 price? Re: 10,000 RPM Re: o2 price? Re: 10,000 RPM TECH-1 Codes Re: o2 price? Re: 02 Sensors RE: o2 price? Combustion Pressure Sensor - revisited Re: o2 price? RE: o2 price? o2 sensor stripping headers from archives Re: 10,000 RPM Re: o2 price? RE: Tricolor LED Chrysler EFI Re: Combustion Pressure Sensor - revisited Re: Injectors See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 07 Jun 99 13:13:02 +1200 From: "Tom Parker" Subject: Re: Metric essay Greg Hermann wrote: >But I think one of these definitions may have changed recently too---how >droll!! (Another droll one from the trolls at ISO!??!!) :-) >I am not the least bit xenophobic or changeophobic--I just think that a >system of weights and measures should be a constant, not a continuing work! The definitions change to take advantage of better metrology. A metre used to be defined by a bar of specially designed metal held in a french fault. Whenever it was moved, there was one person to carry it and another to catch it should the first drop it. When it became possible to use light radidation as the standard, they set up their interferometer and measured the standard metre and said that the metre will now be X number of waves of light of a certain wavelength. The wavelength was chosen because it is particularly easy to produce exactly. Very few people will ever use the interferomtery standard, but when they do, there is a standard so results can be compared. The metre hasn't changed, except perhaps they rounded to a whole number of wavelengths after measuring the old standard. The advantage of this is you can write down exactly what a metre is, and someone can, from your description, recreate an extrememly accurate standard. There is no equivilent for mass. The kilogram is another lump of metal in a french vault. You can't write x million atoms of an element makes a kilogram becuase noone can yet count the atoms. You can't write down how to make a kilogram standard, you can only say go to the french and compare your standard with theirs and adjust it to suit. (there are better ways to define the kilogram... but the primary standard is still the french lump of metal). - -- Tom Parker - parkert@xxx.nz - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8381/ ------------------------------ Date: 09 Jun 99 19:44:32 +1200 From: "Tom Parker" Subject: Re: 02 Sensors Geffro wrote: >I have built one of these from an electronics store in Australia >with the parts supplied in kit form and was wondering if the more >electrically minded in the group might be kind enough to tell >me what the 'bar' (as marked on the pcb) is for ? >This bar is a break in the circuit on the 12v feed side of the last >led before the circuit reaches the ic >It is marked on the pcb with an arrow pointing to either side of the break You'll have to be more specific. It could be a fuse, a light, who knows what. Either take a picture and put it on the net, or find another example somewhere on the web and then someone can identify it. Does anyone know of an online reference to electronic symbols? - -- Tom Parker - parkert@xxx.nz - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8381/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:04:16 +0100 From: "Robertson, Nigel" Subject: RE: Metric essay At last someone with a true grip on the situation. Incidentally, I believe that people at the National Physics Lab in the UK have been developing a replacement definition for the kilogram and is based on forces produced by an electromagnet. This force can be related to voltage and current which are better defined than the lump of metal platinum under the glass dome at NPL which is slowly evaporating away Nigel > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Parker [SMTP:parkert@xxx.com] > Sent: 07 June 1999 02:13 > To: Greg Hermann > Subject: Re: Metric essay > > > > The definitions change to take advantage of better metrology. > > A metre used to be defined by a bar of specially designed metal held in a > french fault. Whenever it was moved, there was one person to carry it and > another to catch it should the first drop it. > > When it became possible to use light radidation as the standard, they set > up > their interferometer and measured the standard metre and said that the > metre > will now be X number of waves of light of a certain wavelength. The > wavelength > was chosen because it is particularly easy to produce exactly. > > Very few people will ever use the interferomtery standard, but when they > do, > there is a standard so results can be compared. > > The metre hasn't changed, except perhaps they rounded to a whole number of > wavelengths after measuring the old standard. The advantage of this is you > can > write down exactly what a metre is, and someone can, from your > description, > recreate an extrememly accurate standard. > > There is no equivilent for mass. The kilogram is another lump of metal in > a > french vault. You can't write x million atoms of an element makes a > kilogram > becuase noone can yet count the atoms. > > You can't write down how to make a kilogram standard, you can only say go > to > the french and compare your standard with theirs and adjust it to suit. > > (there are better ways to define the kilogram... but the primary standard > is > still the french lump of metal). > > -- > Tom Parker - parkert@xxx.nz > - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8381/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 12:14:03 +0000 From: jweir@xxx.net Subject: Re: Edelbrock TBI conversion to PI I've got a copy of the chip from Edelbrock, I called and asked and they sent me a copy, it just took a little story but anyway let me know if anyone wants a copy, I can post it to the FTP site/my web site or send it privatly Jason Weir - -- 88 Wrangler - 155K miles and counting 258 I6, 4.0 head, Cherokee header, 2 1/2 exhaust with high flow cat & Flowmaster GM TBI, Crane 260H Cam TJ Fender Flares http://home.att.net/~jweir CNC 4X4 Member - http://cnc.4x4.org/ > David Sagers wrote: > > > > Last night I was looking thru the new Jeg’s catalog and saw the Edelbrock > > kit for converting a GM TBI to a port injection system, includes manifold, > > injectors, fuel pump... > > > > The description says that it uses the TBI computer. Now Edelbrock makes > > some fine intake manifolds, but the total cost on the kit is some $1100. > > > > Since I already own most of the parts for a TPI intake, I am wondering how > > to make the TBI computer for my ‘92 SBC Suburban fire all eight injectors if > > I install the TPI. Is it as simple as a harness that plugs into the > > existing TBI harness or is there more to it? > > > > Seems that a computer designed to drive two TBI injectors would lack > > something necessary to drive eight TPI injectors, maybe that’s why the kit > > is $1,000. > > > > What else to I need to change to make the TPI conversion? Would I be better > > off buying the Painless Wiring harness and using a TPI computer instead of > > the TBI computer? > > There might be some information in the archives, I've looked into this > a little. Edelbrock uses a stock ECM, but they will send a new Eprom. > There isn't much changed in their calibration from the factory cal's > I've looked at. These were for the 91 and older 747 ecm. > I was told the injectors plug into the factory harness. They are > driven by > the stock injector drivers. I suspect they are the same as the > parts used in the Pro-flo system. I was told the Pro-flo injectors > are Marelli units, and measure 17 ohms each. If I remember the > formula, that should work out to around 4 1/4 ohms/bank of 4. What is > the resistance of the TBI injectors? > > Fuel pump from a pfi vehicle should be sufficient for the conversion. > Edelbrock tech help has been somewhat friendly to a couple of people > I've spoken with, so you might give them a call. > > I'd use a complete TPI setup, including the ECM. I really think the > long runner TPI manifold should be used in the trucks. If it were > combined with a Crane Compucam designed for torque, that would make a > really strong tow vehicle. > Shannen > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 08:28:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Ford Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM Previously, you (Todd....!!) wrote: > Oh? Are the cop cars available to the general public? > > I didn't think they were? > > Are ya sure? > > How much and where do we order one? > > LATER, > > Todd.... > > ------------- > eclark@xxx.com wrote: > > > > >From what I understand GM only does durability mods to thier police car > > engines. Like silicone hoses, oil cooler, things of that nature. Even > > still last I heard the Camaro still holds the title of fastest production > > police pursuit car. And the 96 Caprice still holds the title of the > > fastest production four door police vehicle. Although I think that may be > > in top speed only. doesn't Vermont use Saab 9000 SPGs as hiway cars, I find it hard to believe that a heavy car like the Caprice would keep up to the saab ( I worked at a Saab dealer and got to test drive the SPGs) > > > > On Mon, 7 Jun 1999, Steve Gorkowski wrote: > > > > > Ford has a production V8 built Police cars and Mustangs to handle 7k > > > over and over all over the USA and puts a warranty on it. This engine > > > will go higher if you bypass EFI but then your on your own . I think in > > > the price range that can be considered a high rpm engine. It puts a high > > > RPM engine in the hands of the average person. The Chevy Police car must > > > do the same. > > > > > - -- Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 09:02:53 -0400 From: David Cooley Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM At 08:28 AM 6/9/99 -0400, you wrote: >doesn't Vermont use Saab 9000 SPGs as hiway cars, I find it hard to believe >that a heavy car like the Caprice would keep up to the saab ( I worked at >a Saab >dealer and got to test drive the SPGs) The caprice cop car in 96 had a 275HP LT1 that made 330 or 350 lb/ft torque (Can't remember which) and I believe it had a 3.42 (or close to it) rear gear... 0-60 was in the 7 second range... it was a bit faster than the Impala SS. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 09:12:44 -0400 From: Ken Kelly Subject: Re: 02 Sensors I'm not one of the In Crowd, but I was trading email with Bruce, off list. Last email was last Wednesday. He was having trouble setting up the transportation for Sunday 6/6 so was moving his plans to Monday, That would be 6/7 to travel to the hospital. First was some more tests. He is taking a laptop with him, but hadn't been able to confirm that he would have ISP access. Ken Gar Willis wrote: > > On Tue, 8 Jun 1999 13:23:44 -0600, bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) wrote: > > >93--95 Civic VTEC--If ya ask nice Grumpy prolly has the part # handy. I > >only have it "somewhere"! > > Speakin of the Ole Grump, I haven't seen anything posted, so I was > wondering if the persons Dr. Pelican mentioned as keeping track and > letting us know how he's doing, would let us know if he's in hospital. > > When I don't hear any emissions from CSH, HQ I get to wondering how the > transplantee is doin. > > Gar ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 06:37:11 -0700 From: neilaura@xxx.com Subject: Re: o2 price? At 06:49 PM 6/8/99 -0700, you wrote: >What's a reasonable price for a typical O2 sensor (one-wire)? > >Mike > Just bought a Bosch one for my 87 S10 Chevy P/U. Retail cost $32 from Checker. Neil ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 09:54:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Ford Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM Previously, you (David Cooley) wrote: > At 08:28 AM 6/9/99 -0400, you wrote: > >doesn't Vermont use Saab 9000 SPGs as hiway cars, I find it hard to believe > >that a heavy car like the Caprice would keep up to the saab ( I worked at > >a Saab > >dealer and got to test drive the SPGs) > > The caprice cop car in 96 had a 275HP LT1 that made 330 or 350 lb/ft torque > (Can't remember which) and I believe it had a 3.42 (or close to it) rear > gear... 0-60 was in the 7 second range... it was a bit faster than the > Impala SS. cool, what was the usefull top speed ( not the tail wind, downhill 10 mile straight speed) > =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated! > =========================================================== > - -- Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 10:02:19 -0400 From: David Cooley Subject: Re: o2 price? At 06:37 AM 6/9/99 -0700, you wrote: >At 06:49 PM 6/8/99 -0700, you wrote: > >What's a reasonable price for a typical O2 sensor (one-wire)? > > > >Mike > > >Just bought a Bosch one for my 87 S10 Chevy P/U. >Retail cost $32 from Checker. That price is reasonable... The AC is a bit cheaper though... I think they are $26 or so from the dealer... If you have a 4 wire sensor in a GM vehicle, stay away from the Bosch sensor... It's not grounded properly internally (In fact, it's isolated from ground) and it causes EXTREME problems with the ECM... Bosch admitted the problem to me, but said they weren't changing their manufacturing nor would they refund my money. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 10:04:30 -0400 From: David Cooley Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM At 09:54 AM 6/9/99 -0400, you wrote: >Previously, you (David Cooley) wrote: > > At 08:28 AM 6/9/99 -0400, you wrote: > > >doesn't Vermont use Saab 9000 SPGs as hiway cars, I find it hard to > believe > > >that a heavy car like the Caprice would keep up to the saab ( I worked at > > >a Saab > > >dealer and got to test drive the SPGs) > > > > The caprice cop car in 96 had a 275HP LT1 that made 330 or 350 lb/ft > torque > > (Can't remember which) and I believe it had a 3.42 (or close to it) rear > > gear... 0-60 was in the 7 second range... it was a bit faster than the > > Impala SS. > >cool, what was the usefull top speed ( not the tail wind, downhill >10 mile straight speed) I believe (And could be wrong...) it was somewhere between 135 and 140. (Speed limiter was set to 255). I drove a 96 caprice for a month and it only had the 4300 V8... I had it up to 125 and it was still pulling on flat ground, so the LT1 would have been a bit higher. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 11:26:29 -0300 From: Aron Lopes Petrucci Subject: TECH-1 Codes Hi, I'm trying to develop an ALDL-PC link to GM cars made in Brazil (they are Opel like). So I'm now seraching for the codes to "talk" with this cars. They are TECH-1 compatibles, so, I'd like to know where can I find that codes wich TECH-1 send to ECM and tell it: reset the idle control, turn on the fan, give me the engine parameters, etc... and how to translate the parameters got from car. I built an interface (Serial - ALDL) from Dave's page at http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Shop/1624/DL-RS232.JPG In that site Dave shows a many codes and some software, but I don't know if it is TECH-1 like. I'm affraid about send the wrong codes to ECM and make it crazy! Can anybody help me? Thanx in Advance. Aron L. Petrucci aron@xxx.br Londrina - Pr Brazil ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 07:36:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Squash Subject: Re: o2 price? - --- David Cooley wrote: > If you have a 4 wire sensor in a GM vehicle, stay > away from the Bosch > sensor... It's not grounded properly internally (In > fact, it's isolated > from ground) and it causes EXTREME problems with the Does this apply to the 3-wire Bosch, too? Andy _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 08:53:43 -0600 From: "Kevin Yachimec" Subject: Re: 02 Sensors - ----- Original Message ----- From: Gar Willis To: Sent: June 8, 1999 8:17 PM Subject: Re: 02 Sensors > On Tue, 8 Jun 1999 11:34:53 -0600, "Kevin Yachimec" > wrote: > > >I noticed a Vout/AF graph on the ftp for a NTK should I use this graph for > >the Honda sensor as well? > > Steve's got the particulars nailed down, just one thing I'd like to > reiterate. The Vout/AFR graph in the dropbox is a graph for the TOTAL > combo of NTK sensor AND their proprietary NTK interface box/circuitry. I'm new to the group and I didn't realize that NTK put a special inferace after the sensor. Thanks for pointing that out. > > It is NOT, I repeat once more with *feeling*, it is NOT a graph of the > Vout/AFR curve of the SENSOR all by itself. > > Gar > > I'm going search the archives first before I ask any more questions. Kevin Yachimec Cybertech Automation Inc. Edmonton Alberta Canada keviny@xxx.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 16:17:23 +0100 From: "Robertson, Nigel" Subject: RE: o2 price? Can you elaborate a bit more on what the extreme problems with the ECM are. When you say they are isolated from ground do you mean the ground wire is not physically connected to the outer metal casing? Nigel R > -----Original Message----- > From: David Cooley [SMTP:n5xmt@xxx.net] > Sent: 09 June 1999 15:02 > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: Re: o2 price? > > At 06:37 AM 6/9/99 -0700, you wrote: > >At 06:49 PM 6/8/99 -0700, you wrote: > > >What's a reasonable price for a typical O2 sensor (one-wire)? > > > > > >Mike > > > > >Just bought a Bosch one for my 87 S10 Chevy P/U. > >Retail cost $32 from Checker. > > > That price is reasonable... The AC is a bit cheaper though... I think they > > are $26 or so from the dealer... > If you have a 4 wire sensor in a GM vehicle, stay away from the Bosch > sensor... It's not grounded properly internally (In fact, it's isolated > from ground) and it causes EXTREME problems with the ECM... Bosch > admitted > the problem to me, but said they weren't changing their manufacturing nor > would they refund my money. > > > =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated! > =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 15:38:34 GMT From: bob@xxx.com (Robert Harris) Subject: Combustion Pressure Sensor - revisited The current interest in continuous combustion pressure sensing is driven IMHO by two conflicting needs - to improve milage for CAFE and to reduce emissions further. As far as I understand it, there is a combustion "sweet spot" about 15 ATDC ( varies from 10 to 20 ) where depending on bore, stroke, pin offset, combustion chamber design, fuel etc, placing the maximum pressure at will result in maximum torque. This is probably empirically determined by the manufacturer after extensive dyno testing. Combustion speed varies by load, temperature, rpm, mixture and other factors. The purpose of all spark advance schemes is to quite simply - place the maximum combustion pressure as close to this sweet spot as possible to maximize both power and efficiency. This is done by starting combustion early "advance" such that as the pressure peaks some time later, its at the optimum point. All spark advance schemes work to compensate for change and bring the advance to the point where peak pressure is over the sweet spot - some better than others. Vacuum advance adds a lot of advance to compensate for the radically reduced part throttle flame speed. Centrifugal advance compensates for the reduced time available for combustion as rpm increases. Static advance sets up for idle baseline. Boost retard takes advance out as pressure goes up because higher pressure mixtures burn faster. And the beat goes on. Advancing to knock and retarding works well only when the knock advance is near the optimum point for peak pressure. At any point less than knock limit, it will result in excess spark advance leading to higher than needed combustion temperature, pressure and emissions. Knock detection is however critical to prevent engine destruction - and that is a MAJOR good thing. All of these methods are still approximations - albeit getting much better with the aid of electronic engine management. Close but no emissions cigar. If on the other hand, you control spark advance by directly measuring peak combustion pressure, you are always tuned for maximum power ( torque ) from a given amount of fuel. This matching of pressure to sweet spot results in the minimum pressure possible to maintain the required output. This reduces the heat produced, fuel consumed and minimizes the total emissions. Think of hit like pushing a swing. Increasing the effort at the wrong place results in less movement than properly timing when to push. Additional analysis of the combustion pressure can reveal impending knock prior to occurrence by the presence of certain characteristics of the pressure rise. If these sharply rising peaks are present, then knock is imminent. By watching pressure in the lean region, it can also be used to run close to lean limits. This is done by monitoring pressure turndown and if the peak begins to decrease, slightly richen the mixture. Directly measuring the combustion pressure reduces the utility and criticality of other measure measurements as it directly reads the desired result instead of divining the entrails. Certain year imports are rumored to have direct cylinder pressure sensors. Wouldn't it be sweet to instead of compensating for to optimize changes on the fly. Conceive of each cylinder having optimum timing independent of all others, each cylinders power exactly matching the others etc. It will happen as the combustion pressure sensor ( Trionic or otherwise ) moves mainstream. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 11:39:49 -0400 From: David Cooley Subject: Re: o2 price? At 07:36 AM 6/9/99 -0700, you wrote: >--- David Cooley wrote: > > If you have a 4 wire sensor in a GM vehicle, stay > > away from the Bosch > > sensor... It's not grounded properly internally (In > > fact, it's isolated > > from ground) and it causes EXTREME problems with the > >Does this apply to the 3-wire Bosch, too? Just the 4... on the 3 wire, the sensor is grounded to the shell... the 4 they isolate it. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 11:49:15 -0400 From: David Cooley Subject: RE: o2 price? At 04:17 PM 6/9/99 +0100, you wrote: >Can you elaborate a bit more on what the extreme problems with the ECM are. The sensor, not being grounded to the outer shell, causes the inputs to the ECM to "float"... mine went to -2.5 volts and made the ECM thing the engine was starving for fuel... The ECM compensated by going full rich and the engine started chugging, missing and pouring black smoke out the exhaust. At first I thought the new O2 sensor was bad and made autozone give me a new one... same thing... After a couple hours of playing, I hooked a wire from ground to the wire that should have been grounded to the shell of the O2 sensor and it ran right. Pulled it out and checked with an ohm meter, and it was totally isolated from the shell... Checked the old AC, and the low side of the sensor was connected directly to the shell. Bought a new AC and all was well again. >When you say they are isolated from ground do you mean the ground wire is >not physically connected to the outer metal casing? Exactly! =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 00:00:01 +0800 From: Goi Sihao Subject: o2 sensor hi, i've built a 20 segment o2 meter using the lm3914 and have some problems with it. i hope this is the right place to ask. anyways, i tested it on a 92 honda (1.6 sohc vtec) and encountered a problem. the honda has a heated o2 sensor (4 wires), so i hooked up signal wire to the signal input and signal ground to Ref(lo). Ref(hi) is set 1V higher than Ref(lo). V+ is shorted to battery positive terminal and V- is 0v battery. i have a 4uf cap to smooth the power supply. when i start the car, i can get a reading of the o2 sensor with a dmm, but _not_ with the sensor! i do not read an voltage between Ref(lo) and Ref(hi)!! the lower bank of led's r all lit but not the top bank. i believe commercial o2 meters from the likes of cyberdyne have power supply, power supply ground and the signal input only. however, i didnt not get any likely readings when i connected Ref(lo) to power supply ground too! i'd appreciate any help i can get here. thanks! sihao ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 10:56:57 -0500 From: steve ravet Subject: stripping headers from archives > QUESTION: Someone mentioned that you could strip the extraneous > B.S. out of the archive files by bringing it into an email software, and then > saving/exporting to a text file.. There are several ways to do this. You can create a new netscape mail folder, then copy an archive file on top of the folder file that netscape creates, then netscape will see it as a folder, and thread the messages, etc. Or you can download the archives as text files, load them into your word processor or text editor and search as you like. Or, you can use an awk file that Chris Lucas sent to me that strips most of the headers out of the archive. Look on the ftp site for gmecm.awk, diy_efi.awk, efi332.awk. Download an archive and use a command like this: awk -f gmecm.awk archive_num_2.txt | more This is unix only, unless you have awk for nt/95. I'm trying to set up the archives so that this command is invoked when you click on an archive but it's not there yet. - --steve - -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@xxx.com Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. www.arm.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 11:05:59 -0500 (CDT) From: eclark@xxx.com Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM On Wed, 9 Jun 1999, David Cooley wrote: > At 09:54 AM 6/9/99 -0400, you wrote: > >Previously, you (David Cooley) wrote: > > > At 08:28 AM 6/9/99 -0400, you wrote: > > > >doesn't Vermont use Saab 9000 SPGs as hiway cars, I find it hard to > > believe > > > >that a heavy car like the Caprice would keep up to the saab ( I worked at > > > >a Saab > > > >dealer and got to test drive the SPGs) > > > > > > The caprice cop car in 96 had a 275HP LT1 that made 330 or 350 lb/ft > > torque > > > (Can't remember which) and I believe it had a 3.42 (or close to it) rear > > > gear... 0-60 was in the 7 second range... it was a bit faster than the > > > Impala SS. > > > >cool, what was the usefull top speed ( not the tail wind, downhill > >10 mile straight speed) > > > I believe (And could be wrong...) it was somewhere between 135 and 140. > (Speed limiter was set to 255). > I drove a 96 caprice for a month and it only had the 4300 V8... I had it up > to 125 and it was still pulling on flat ground, so the LT1 would have been > a bit higher. > Here is a webpage I found through Altavista: http://members.tripod.com/~rbc2097/cap9196.htm They claim 139mph as the top speed for the 96. I dont know if all the information is accurate but he lists a couple references. - -Eric ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 11:13:25 -0500 From: Clarence Wood Subject: Re: o2 price? Contact Sherco (1-800-548-6229 ask to talk to Mark Sherman). He has universal 02 Sensors for around $18.00. He buys from businesses that are going out of business. I have purchased from him in the past and am very satisfied with the quality and price of his parts. I purchased two of the sensors and have been running one on my 280zx for over a year; they are not inferior quality units rather what you would buy from the manufacturer at a much higher price. After all this, he may not have them any more, but give him a call anyway. At 06:37 AM 6/9/99 -0700, you wrote: >At 06:49 PM 6/8/99 -0700, you wrote: >>What's a reasonable price for a typical O2 sensor (one-wire)? >> >>Mike >> >Just bought a Bosch one for my 87 S10 Chevy P/U. >Retail cost $32 from Checker. > >Neil > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 10:32:40 -0500 From: Clarence Wood Subject: RE: Tricolor LED Thanks everyone for the comments. I am trying to build the "Fuel Injector Monitor Eye" By Bowling, so I need the two wire Tricolor LED. I have called Radio Shack and they didn't know what I was talking about and referred me to Tech America because they carry "strange components". Incidentally, they, Radio Shack, want $13.42 for the LM3914; their affiliate, Tech America is asking $2.85 and DigiKey wants $3.29. I also called Tech America and they said they didn't have any Tricolor LED's, as did DigiKey. Can anyone send me the 800 phone number for Mouser?? IZCC #3426 1982 280ZX Turbo GL 1966 El Camino 1982 Yamaha Maxim XJ-1101J Motorcycle 1975 Honda CB750 SS (black engine) 1986 Snapper Comet lawn mower Clarence Wood Software&Such... clarencewood@xxx.net Savannah, TN. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:16:25 -0600 From: "M. Jones" Subject: Chrysler EFI Hello-- Anybody out there doing anything with Chrysler systems? The 5.2L in my Durango is probably the worst 'modern' engine control scheme I've yet driven. It's lifeless and unresponsive below 2800 rpms, when it suddenly wakes up. (It's so sudden that I don't believe it's cam specs causing it.) Response on initial tip-in is good, until about a quarter of a second later, when it then feels like a lean condition sets in. It then kind of sags and surges in a minor, but very annoying, way throughout the acceleration regime. A replacement O2 sensor did not correct the symptoms, and a friend with the same engine in his pickup reports the same behavior. Any ideas? Mike J. rmjones@xxx.net '97 Expedition 5.4L '98 Durango 5.2L '86 Malibu Skier TBI'd 351W ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 09:23:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Squash Subject: Re: Combustion Pressure Sensor - revisited > Wouldn't it be sweet to instead of compensating for > to optimize changes on the > fly. Conceive of each cylinder having optimum > timing independent of all > others, each cylinders power exactly matching the > others etc. This sounds like an awesome concept, but if each cylinder is independent, won't then engine run roughly and unbalanced? I suppose cooling on each cylinder would be different, so that would make each cylinder unique... I suppose A/F flow to each cylinder would be a tad different, also... Neat idea! Andy _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @xxx.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 10:29:31 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Injectors Cool deal Fred! If you can get 850 hp out of a 3.8, if we use the same hp/L or hp/cu. in., 850 hp/230 cu in = 3.69 hp / cu in! If we take my 452(.060 over 440) and use the same ratio of 3.69 hp/cu. in. we'd get a WHOPPIN 3.69 * 452 = 1,670! However, I only WANT about 1,000 hp, at least for not, that's an easily attainable goal, with using from 5 - 15 lbs. of boost, maybe turn er up higher at a later date.... ALSO, ya may have misunderstood me when I posted that I wanted DUAL injector setup for idle quality as well as safety. I meant I may want to use smaller dual injectors PER Cylinder not just two 100+ lb. injectors TOTAL for the whole system, that WOULD be rather silly as well as potentially SERIOUSLY dangerous, as ya stated! 1. So, how much is a haltech unit? 2. As well as the prices of all the sensors and injectors from the j-yard? 3. And what all sensors are required? 4. What kind of car (Make, model, engine, etc.) car would 'good' injectors to use for my app come from? As for the Haltech computer, I'd like to be able to use larger injectors in the future, is the haltech set on a certain spec'd injector(resistance, inductance, amps, volts, etc...?) or is it calabratable for ANY type of injector ya can throw at it? Thanks for all the help! Things are begninnin to fall into place with all of the info I'm gettin outa this e-mail thread! REALLY 'preciate all the help from everyone... And I'm glad to see that there are other people 'doin' the same type projects I am! Very cool indeed! Sincerely! Todd....!! http://www.c-com.net/~atc347/toddlnk.htm Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > > What computer could I use for multiple(dual) port injector setup like > > that? > > Well, I wouldn't want to design or build a system based on one or two > big-ass 100lb injectors. If one gets stuck closed, you'd lose 1/2 > your fuel and lean out. Underboost, you'd detonate something fierce. > If the reverse happened, where one injector got stuck open, you'd have > a flood, possibly a fire if the engine even runs at all. > > This is one of the things I do like about multiple injectors, spread > around the intake runners, i.e. one injector per cylinder. Fire 'em > sequentially, batch, a combination of the two, whatever, however if > one injector goes bad, on a V8 engine you could in theory limp home > with crappy performance. But, you more than likely could get home. > > Also, if you calculated out that you need two (see dual above) 100lb > injectors, that's 200lbs worth of injector performance at an 80% duty > cycle, divided by "banks" or "cylinders" depending how you want to > fire them, and you have smaller, less costly injectors. > > An 18lb injector is cheaper than a 36lb injector which is cheaper than > a 100lb injector, typically, assuming the same vendor/manufacturer. > > And of course, if you test them and determine the approximate flow, > you can get junkyard injectors for practically nothing, and put > together a nearly matched set. > > > which the best most economical system I could use for this setup is! > > The least aggrevating method of EFI for your needs based on what we > discussed would be the Electromotive Unit. Buy the unit "naked" and > get all the GM sensors, injectors, etc, from the local you-pull-it > junkyard and wire it up. Cut the wires long to all the > sensors/injectors so you have wires to play with as well as the proper > connectors. Makes life easy down the road. > > > can find an economical dual injector/cyl computer, that is... > > Well, if you want dual injectors per cylinder, lets talk about this > :) My 849HP Buick V6 ran three injectors per cylinder... all junkyard > injectors. > > Stage I - managed by the Haltach ECM. > Stage II - logical "and" between the Pulsewidth of Stage I and the > boost pressure. Meaning, that the Stage II injectors don't fire > unless the same injector in Stage I fires "AND" the boost is over > 9-10lbs of pressure. > Stage III - local "and" between the Pulsewidth of Stage I and the > boost pressure (higher), meaning that the Stage III injectors > (Isopropol/distilled water mixture) doesn't fire unless the same > injector in Stage I fires "AND" the boost was over 15lbs of pressure. > > We did this using mosfets and op-amps, probably violating most of the > "rules" associated with electronics engineering, however it worked. > LM324's are a generic op-amp and we used it to measure the boost in > the plenum, which fed an "ordinary" cmos buffer gate which then fed a > CMOS AND gate, which the other leg of said AND gate was fed by a > 2n2222 transistor attached to the injector fire lead on the injector. > wasn't all that complex, though being an analog/digital mix with the > programmable Haltach unit thinking something else was happening, > adjusting this setup was an absolute nasty bitch. However, 849 HP out > of a Buick V6 with three injectors per cylinder is nothing to laugh > at. It worked, it worked well, and I should grab my notebook from > the shop and post some more of the details in the wiring. > > Though, if I can do it, so can you. Just because I used the Haltach > unit, doesn't mean you're locked into it. The key is controlling the > maps in the ECM, whichever one you choose, to ensure that over a > certain boost level, when stage II and stage III kicks in, the tables > for injector pulsewidth LEVEL OFF, thus not increasing the time the > injectors are open. As stage two started firing... performance dipped > because the mixture was slightly rich, until the RPMs and boost kept > going up, in which case it leveled off. This indicates to me that we > didn't have the threshold just right, and some of the pulsewidth > settings in the Haltach might also have been off. Stage III wasn't a > problem as its isopropol, and it cooled off the cylinders a bit yet > still burned. > > It was a mess. Two fuel tanks (one gas, one alky/water) and three > in-tank fuel pumps. Two in the gas, one in the alky, all wired on for > constant pressure, which varied at the rails between 45-50 depending > on the engine RPMs and load. More load, less pressure, as the fuel(s) > were disappearing faster, and stock pumps are... well... mediocre. > > If you can, use Ford F150 pumps from the 89-93 model years... they are > external, don't seemed to be bothered by isopropol, and did I say > external and easily replacible? . > > Hope that helped. > > -- > > Frederic Breitwieser > Bridgeport CT 06606 > > 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental > 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy > 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos > 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #348 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".