DIY_EFI Digest Wednesday, June 9 1999 Volume 04 : Number 349 In this issue: Re: Injectors Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (Viper Sports Cars Class) Re: Injectors Re: You too can be a Blues Brother (was 10k rpm) Re: Edelbrock TBI conversion to PI Re: Injectors Re: Injectors RE: o2 price? Re: You too can be a Blues Brother (was 10k rpm) RE: o2 price? RE: Tricolor LED Re: Supercharged 440 Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (Viper Sports Cars Class) Re: Chrysler EFI Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (Viper Sports Cars Class) Re: You too can be a Blues Brother (was 10k rpm) Re: Combustion Pressure Sensor - revisited Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (Viper Sports Cars Class) Re: Injectors Re: Injectors Re: Combustion Pressure Sensor - revisited Re: New Microchip PIC processor. Re: 02 Sensors Re: Topic scan tool bin files Re: New Microchip PIC processor. Re: Chrysler EFI Re: Combustion Pressure Sensor - revisited Re: Public & Private Groups Compared See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 10:53:59 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Injectors COOL Jason!, Can't wait to see this software as well as your equations n stuff! May even make my own lil cross ref spread sheet... Buildin the lil cross reference spreadsheets usin various equations tends to help me understand the equations and effects of varying variables have in that paradign! Take er easy! LATER! Todd....!! http://www.c-com.net/~atc347/toddlnk.htm Jason Haines wrote: > > In addition to the web site someone posted, MSD sells a cheap program that > does a pretty good job of estimating fuel injector size requirements, total > fuel flow requirements and airflow requirements (the program is even nice > enough to offer suggested MSD injector part numbers 8-) ). > > You can also just create a spread sheet in Excel or something - I'll try > and post some of the equations. > > Jason > > At 04:07 PM 6/7/99 -0700, you wrote: > >WOW! Thanks a lot for that info! > > > >100 lb.hr is equivelant to how many HP? Or is that the right way to > >look at it?.... > > > >ALSO, If I plan on pushin say 1,000+ hp with a f.i.'d intercooled twin > >turbo 440 or 451 cu in engine, with a minimum of 15 lbs. boost under > >acceleration, what size injectors should I use at a minimum? > > > >What's the forumla for this, or where may I find the formulas for proper > >injector sizing for various apps? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 11:00:59 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (Viper Sports Cars Class) I hear ya there man! However, performance means more than just cubes and even more than just HP, if half or more of that hp and torque isn't applied to the ground effectively, then ya might as well not even have the additional hp. With this in mind, a factory, or other, race car, such as the Viper, any viper, has ULTRA high performance specs AS WELL AS, ultra super times in various tests and trials, such as the slalom, quarter mile accel., braking distance, lateral G-forces, etc... With this in mind a bone stock Viper GTS, GTS-R and ACR are all some of the best factory or other race cars in existance... Being PARKED next to the Viper is the ONLY time the cool Ranchero will ever be CLOSE to being next to a Viper, except maybe at the Gas stations, haha, lol.... LATER, Todd.... http://www.c-com.net/~atc347/toddlnk.htm .. wrote: > > "Todd....!!" wrote: > > > ALSO, if a "bred for performance Viper ACR, 450+ hp, producing 460 > > horsepower and 500 pound-feet of torque, and features one-piece 18-inch > > BBS wheels, Koni racing shocks, Meritor springs, K&N air filters, a > > five-point restraint system and more, including special ACR badging and > > graphics." > > AhhhHa, now we're onto something.. Let's see, the old '77 Ranchero parked > along side the garage, that we use about once a month or less for odd > errands, has a 466 cu.in. Racing Head Service motor (Memphis, Tenn) that > dynoed at 508 hp, has a sorta rusty chrome Moroso Air Cleaner, 1 piece > smoothy chrome wheels w/50 series tires, Genuine Sears air shocks, 2 old '77 > vintage seat belts, the only "badges" are the old GT stripes; will qualify > as a Hot Sports Car after all... Ooops, hold the phone, the beefed C6 won't > let you shift at 10k though. Jeez, I was just getting ready to go out and > wash the dirty 'ol beast, then cruise on down to the Jag/Porche/Ferrari > Dealer for show and tell.. Well at least the 'ol gal sets as low as a > Viper.. > > Oh, well, I'll park it next to a Viper next time i'm down at one of the > Casino's for lunch - being in like company oughto make the 'ol gal feel a > little better... > rap ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 11:40:39 -0500 From: Jason Haines Subject: Re: Injectors At 08:22 PM 6/8/99 -0600, you wrote: >>> What computer could I use for multiple(dual) port injector setup like >>> that? >> The 1990 to 1995 ZR1 Corvette computer can control 16 injectors. Jason ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 11:12:27 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: You too can be a Blues Brother (was 10k rpm) I hear ya about the auctions n stuff Shannen, however, I meant I thought the Cop car options weren't available to the public on a NEW car not an auction car... Thanks for the info anyways.... LATER! Todd.... - ----- Shannen Durphey wrote: > > Todd....!! wrote: > > > > Oh? Are the cop cars available to the general public? > > > > I didn't think they were? > > > > Are ya sure? > > > > How much and where do we order one? > > > > LATER, > > > > Todd.... > > > > ------------- > Cop auctions, search web for BC09 for some info. (Police option code > for GM) > There's mailing lists, web pages, yada yada. > Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:18:12 -0400 From: "SPECTRO COATING CORP." Subject: Re: Edelbrock TBI conversion to PI (snip) >>I was told the injectors plug into the factory harness. They are > > driven by > > the stock injector drivers. True... I suspect they are the same as the > > parts used in the Pro-flo system. I was told the Pro-flo injectors > > are Marelli units, and measure 17 ohms each. If I remember the > > formula, that should work out to around 4 1/4 ohms/bank of 4. What is > > the resistance of the TBI injectors? > > Not much - the tbi 's use a low resistance injector - res per FSM is listed as 1.95 - 2.15 ohms w/ 2.5 amps required BTW - The CPi injectors are running about 1.25 -1.5 ohms depending on size and require a _4 AMP_ supply. 4/1 peak and hold drivers required for those... This is what i was trying to say to Todd when i suggested he look at using the CPI injector config. if he really wanted to use the rat roaster intake Also - I have a list of injectors & flowrates that i have been putting together - most of it you've all seen but i've done the unit conversions and corrected some mistakes i found in other peoples stuff - does anyone wnat me to post it? (its about 14 of Word text) Later - jason ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:30:44 -0400 From: "SPECTRO COATING CORP." Subject: Re: Injectors > At 08:22 PM 6/8/99 -0600, you wrote: > >>> What computer could I use for multiple(dual) port injector setup like > >>> that? > >> > > The 1990 to 1995 ZR1 Corvette computer can control 16 injectors. > Uh - Kinda - the Zr-1 ECU sequentially fires the first 8 injectors. Control of the additional 8 is handled by a solid state relay. that is to say that once the relay is enabled, both injectors for a given cylinder are fired simultaneously. BTW - the modules (as they are referred to are about $150 at the gm dealer) the zr-1 ecus are running about $198 with no exchange (last i checked & hoping my memory is ok) so you'l need 2 of the modules and 1 of the ecu... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 13:56:12 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Injectors > If you can get 850 hp out of a 3.8, if we use the same hp/L or hp/cu. > in., 850 hp/230 cu in = 3.69 hp / cu in! Its actually 4.1L, which is 252cid plus a .030 overbore. > If we take my 452(.060 over 440) and use the same ratio of 3.69 hp/cu. > in. we'd get a WHOPPIN 3.69 * 452 = 1,670! > However, I only WANT about 1,000 hp, at least for not, that's an easily That's a very easy attainable goal - and because the journals are as large as they are, mostly forged parts, should be a survivable combination, though certainly not so friendly on the street depending how you achieve this power. With forced induction, while mroe complex to set up initially and certainly tune, you can have "mild manners" on the street because you don't want a lot of cam overlap for a boosted engine. Overlap makes more power in the higher RPMs when the fuel/air charge have a sort of flow/rhythm to it... though at the lower RPMs, the engine barely runs. > 1. So, how much is a haltech unit? Used about 600-800 bucks, new its about a grand-ish. > 2. As well as the prices of all the sensors and injectors from the > j-yard? The Haltech and Electromotive use GM sensors, so you can use junkyard GM sensors, except for the MAP sensor... unless you can find a Syclone/Typhoon GM truck in the junkyard intact - you would need a 2-bar sensor for over 14.7lbs of boost. > 3. And what all sensors are required? Map or MAF, water temp, cam or crank sensor (Theirs or MSD's is fine), and of course, O2 sensors. Remind me, I have the wiring diagram at home for what we did for the Electromotive. haltach is very similar, different connection order, same sensors. > As for the Haltech computer, I'd like to be able to use larger injectors > in the future, is the haltech set on a certain spec'd > injector(resistance, inductance, amps, volts, etc...?) or is it > calabratable for ANY type of injector ya can throw at it? Any high impedence injector can be throw into the mix for Haltach or Electromotive. YOu actually tell the software the rating of your injectors, and it makes calculations based on projected flow. So, get as big or small as you like. - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport CT 06606 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 10:52:51 -0700 (PDT) From: thergen@xxx.net Subject: RE: o2 price? Both the isolated ground O2 sensor and shell grounded 4 wire O2 sensors may have valid applications. For the shell grounded O2 sensor, the "floating" ground wire may be a shield as someone alluded to previously. The isolated O2 sensor would give more accurate results if it's referenced to a ground at the ecm (all grounds are not equal). They're obviously not direct replacements for each other. That wouldn't be the first error in an auto part stores cross reference list (a rather widespread error it seems). Tom On Wed, 9 Jun 1999, David Cooley wrote: > At 04:17 PM 6/9/99 +0100, you wrote: > >Can you elaborate a bit more on what the extreme problems with the ECM are. > > > The sensor, not being grounded to the outer shell, causes the inputs to the > ECM to "float"... mine went to -2.5 volts and made the ECM thing the engine > was starving for fuel... The ECM compensated by going full rich and the > engine started chugging, missing and pouring black smoke out the > exhaust. At first I thought the new O2 sensor was bad and made autozone > give me a new one... same thing... After a couple hours of playing, I > hooked a wire from ground to the wire that should have been grounded to the > shell of the O2 sensor and it ran right. Pulled it out and checked with an > ohm meter, and it was totally isolated from the shell... Checked the old > AC, and the low side of the sensor was connected directly to the > shell. Bought a new AC and all was well again. > > > >When you say they are isolated from ground do you mean the ground wire is > >not physically connected to the outer metal casing? > > Exactly! > > =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated! > =========================================================== > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:26:46 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" Subject: Re: You too can be a Blues Brother (was 10k rpm) You used to be able to order the 9C1 package from Chevy on a personal car. You did not get the black and white paint scheme or the super rugged but ugly interior. What was left was just a refined version of the F41 suspension with special hard bushings, some frame reinforcements and the extra cooling bits. Gary Derian > I hear ya about the auctions n stuff Shannen, however, I meant I thought > the Cop car options weren't available to the public on a NEW car not an > auction car... > > Thanks for the info anyways.... > > LATER! > > Todd.... > ----- > > Shannen Durphey wrote: > > > > Todd....!! wrote: > > > > > > Oh? Are the cop cars available to the general public? > > > > > > I didn't think they were? > > > > > > Are ya sure? > > > > > > How much and where do we order one? > > > > > > LATER, > > > > > > Todd.... > > > > > > ------------- > > Cop auctions, search web for BC09 for some info. (Police option code > > for GM) > > There's mailing lists, web pages, yada yada. > > Shannen > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 14:08:59 -0400 From: David Cooley Subject: RE: o2 price? At 10:52 AM 6/9/99 -0700, you wrote: >Both the isolated ground O2 sensor and shell grounded 4 wire O2 sensors >may have valid applications. For the shell grounded O2 sensor, the >"floating" ground wire may be a shield as someone alluded to previously. >The isolated O2 sensor would give more accurate results if it's referenced >to a ground at the ecm (all grounds are not equal). > >They're obviously not direct replacements for each other. That wouldn't >be the first error in an auto part stores cross reference list (a rather >widespread error it seems). According top Bosch (not the autoparts store) I had the right sensor for my application... Unfortunately, that sensor didn't work. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 14:20:36 -0400 From: "Peter D. Hipson" Subject: RE: Tricolor LED Didn't I post the web page? If so, just go there and take a look. Order online, or use their 800 number (listed on the web page). At 10:32 AM 6/9/99 -0500, you wrote: > Thanks everyone for the comments. I am trying to build the "Fuel Injector Monitor Eye" By Bowling, so I need the two wire Tricolor LED. > I have called Radio Shack and they didn't know what I was talking about and referred me to Tech America because they carry "strange components". Incidentally, they, Radio Shack, want $13.42 for the LM3914; their affiliate, Tech America is asking $2.85 and DigiKey wants $3.29. > I also called Tech America and they said they didn't have any Tricolor LED's, as did DigiKey. > Can anyone send me the 800 phone number for Mouser?? > > > > > >IZCC #3426 > 1982 280ZX Turbo GL > 1966 El Camino > 1982 Yamaha Maxim XJ-1101J Motorcycle > 1975 Honda CB750 SS (black engine) > 1986 Snapper Comet lawn mower >Clarence Wood >Software&Such... >clarencewood@xxx.net >Savannah, TN. > > Thanks, Peter Hipson (founder, NEHOG) 1995 White NA Hummer Wagon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 14:42:47 -0400 From: "SPECTRO COATING CORP." Subject: Re: Supercharged 440 Hi Simon - how are you? Sorry this reply took so long - i had set your message aside to reply and didn't seem to get to it. My Fault. anyway thanks for the advice. on your comment of using a 2 input and gate - what kind do you have to use to handle the voltages present? do you know? Take care - Jason > Hi Jason > > Sounds like a nice engine! > > > Rob at Force fuel injection told me that i better add enrichment fuel to > > the top of the blower (roots have low efficiency you know) to provide some > > additional cooling so I'm working on that now. > > I have a EFI supercharged (roots) 2L pinto engine in my Capri. > To fix the problem off charge heating I used a very simple DIY water injection > set up. It is a PWM 555 circuit controlling a windscreen washer pump > that injects in to the TB, the water injector is mounted in the air filter. > The amount of water injected is adjustable on the dash. > I just increased the water until the detonation stopped. > > The whole set up cost about US$25 > > The only hassle with water injection is all the extra hardware like the > water tank pump and plumbing. > > > I dunno how is the best way to drive the additional injectors though - any > > ideas on an inexpensive additional injector driver would be appreciated > > I forget who suggested it but the easy way is to use the pulse to the injectors, > feed the injector signal in to 1 input of a 2 input AND gate the other input is > controlled by a hobbs switch, the out put goes to an injector driver. This way > when the boost reaches the set point the extra injector comes on and it is > triggered / controlled by the ECU. > > Cheers >  > Simon > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Simon Quested > Computer Engineer, Silicon Graphics & Windows NT Support > LINCOLN UNIVERSITY OF NEW ZEALAND > Phone (64)(03) 3252811 Ext. 8087 > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > A person who smiles in the face of adversity > .....probably has a scapegoat. > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 11:54:12 -0700 From: ".." Subject: Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (Viper Sports Cars Class) Todd; You missed the point........ rap "Todd....!!" wrote: > I hear ya there man! > > However, performance means more than just cubes and even more than just > HP, if half or more of that hp and torque isn't applied to the ground > effectively, then ya might as well not even have the additional hp. > > With this in mind, a factory, or other, race car, such as the Viper, any > viper, has ULTRA high performance specs AS WELL AS, ultra super times in > various tests and trials, such as the slalom, quarter mile accel., > braking distance, lateral G-forces, etc... > > With this in mind a bone stock Viper GTS, GTS-R and ACR are all some of > the best factory or other race cars in existance... > > Being PARKED next to the Viper is the ONLY time the cool Ranchero will > ever be CLOSE to being next to a Viper, except maybe at the Gas > stations, haha, lol.... > > LATER, > > Todd.... > http://www.c-com.net/~atc347/toddlnk.htm > > .. wrote: > > > > "Todd....!!" wrote: > > > > > ALSO, if a "bred for performance Viper ACR, 450+ hp, producing 460 > > > horsepower and 500 pound-feet of torque, and features one-piece 18-inch > > > BBS wheels, Koni racing shocks, Meritor springs, K&N air filters, a > > > five-point restraint system and more, including special ACR badging and > > > graphics." > > > > AhhhHa, now we're onto something.. Let's see, the old '77 Ranchero parked > > along side the garage, that we use about once a month or less for odd > > errands, has a 466 cu.in. Racing Head Service motor (Memphis, Tenn) that > > dynoed at 508 hp, has a sorta rusty chrome Moroso Air Cleaner, 1 piece > > smoothy chrome wheels w/50 series tires, Genuine Sears air shocks, 2 old '77 > > vintage seat belts, the only "badges" are the old GT stripes; will qualify > > as a Hot Sports Car after all... Ooops, hold the phone, the beefed C6 won't > > let you shift at 10k though. Jeez, I was just getting ready to go out and > > wash the dirty 'ol beast, then cruise on down to the Jag/Porche/Ferrari > > Dealer for show and tell.. Well at least the 'ol gal sets as low as a > > Viper.. > > > > Oh, well, I'll park it next to a Viper next time i'm down at one of the > > Casino's for lunch - being in like company oughto make the 'ol gal feel a > > little better... > > rap ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 15:48:44 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Chrysler EFI > A replacement O2 sensor did not correct the symptoms, and a friend with the > same engine in his pickup reports the same behavior. > > Any ideas? Well Mike, it sounds like your computer is being "efficient". For a more accurate measurement of what it is doing, you'll need to monitor the output of the O2 sensor and the RPMs. Attach a tach if you don't already have one in the dash, and attach a simple analog VOM to the O2 sensor and ground, and have a passenger watch the gauge while you accelerate on the street (thus providing a load - revving in neutral won't give you accurate information). At about .7 - .72 volts, you are at chemically optimum a/f ratio, with acceleration being a little lower. Oh, set your VOM (Volt Ohm Meter) to the 1.5V scale. I'm not to familar with the newer chrysler EFI stuff at all, but my suggestions at least will tell you what the engine's doing under different conditions. - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport CT 06606 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 15:51:58 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (Viper Sports Cars Class) > Being PARKED next to the Viper is the ONLY time the cool Ranchero will > ever be CLOSE to being next to a Viper, except maybe at the Gas > stations, haha, lol.... Well, you have to compare apples to apples, which ya not doing! The viper's engine is set back slightly compared to the Ranchero, the 466cid bigblock sits rather high on the frame rails, and I doubt the ranchero has a CAD-designed/tested properly designed suspension specifically for high-end street and low-end racing use, like the Viper. Plus, isn't there a 1000lb weight difference? Anyway, you're comparing an banana to a watermelow with an anvil in the front :) - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport CT 06606 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 15:58:14 -0400 From: "Clare Snyder" Subject: Re: You too can be a Blues Brother (was 10k rpm) Up here in Canukland there is, or at least used to be, a heavyduty police/taxicab package. Had all the durability stuff, but I don't think the "persuit" package was part of it. This unit WAS available to the public. - ----- Original Message ----- From: Todd....!! To: Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 1999 2:12 PM Subject: Re: You too can be a Blues Brother (was 10k rpm) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 14:54:41 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Combustion Pressure Sensor - revisited >The current interest in continuous combustion pressure sensing is driven IMHO >by two conflicting needs - to improve milage for CAFE and to reduce emissions >further. > >By watching pressure in the lean region, it can also be used to run close to >lean limits. This is done by monitoring pressure turndown and if the peak >begins to decrease, slightly richen the mixture. > >Directly measuring the combustion pressure reduces the utility and criticality >of other measure measurements as it directly reads the desired result instead >of divining the entrails. > >Certain year imports are rumored to have direct cylinder pressure sensors. All EXACTLY spot on, Bob! One of the few times that I have seen anyone write down that a good, quick burning chamber design avoids the need to advance to incipient knock, but very true! You been talking to Keith Duckworth lately??? :-) (Or just reading Glassman?) Only thing that I would add is that I THINK that there is no such thing as TOO quick a burn--so long as the patterns of turbulence in the chamber are CONSISTENT. I think that the urban legend that too quick a burn leads to a rough running engine should read more along the lines that an inconsistently quick burn (as would be produced by randomly inconsistent patterns of turbulence in the chamber) is directly analogous to varying the timing randomly, and therefore the engine runs rough! But--I gotta be the owl now--WHO?? WHO?? I have heard rumors of fiber optic based im chamber pressure transducers that have the potential to be production type reasonable in cost, and also warranty type robust--but haven't ever seen anything.!! Does anybody know of any of this kind of stuff that is out there, particularly if it is in production?? If in production, what is the application?? >Wouldn't it be sweet to instead of compensating for to optimize changes on the >fly. Conceive of each cylinder having optimum timing independent of all >others, each cylinders power exactly matching the others etc. It will happen >as the combustion pressure sensor ( Trionic or otherwise ) moves mainstream. Enough to make a guy drool!! BTW--whaz been happening with your plasma - jet ignition experiments?? We want DETAILS, and part #'s!! Regards, Greg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 23:09:12 +0200 From: "Espen Hilde" Subject: Re: 10,000 rpm v8 (Viper Sports Cars Class) I have tryed the Viper on a sony playstation ....wasnt wery impressed of the handling....;-) But the 4 wheeldrive japaneese cars handles great....... Sony is from Japan....................................hm Espen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 16:03:04 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Injectors COOL DEAL! Thanks for that info... Wonder how much a ZR1 'puter is? Todd.... - -------- Jason Haines wrote: > > At 08:22 PM 6/8/99 -0600, you wrote: > >>> What computer could I use for multiple(dual) port injector setup like > >>> that? > >> > > The 1990 to 1995 ZR1 Corvette computer can control 16 injectors. > > Jason ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 17:39:52 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: Injectors At 04:03 PM 6/9/99 -0700, you wrote: >COOL DEAL! > >Thanks for that info... > >Wonder how much a ZR1 'puter is? > There was a post earlier that said the driver modules for the 2nd bank of injectors was 150 each (2 required for a V8) and the computer was 190.00. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 23:53:20 +0200 From: "Espen Hilde" Subject: Re: Combustion Pressure Sensor - revisited Here is some food for toughts: http://www.ca.sandia.gov/CRF/Research/Applied/94-8546/94-8546.old.html#4 Toyota used or uses cyl pressure sensor on the turbo rally car ,if i remember right....I dont remember where I got that from ....maybe its in the arcives? Espen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 14:47:59 PDT From: Bill the arcstarter Subject: Re: New Microchip PIC processor. Ludis Langens wrote: >>http://www.microchip.com/10/Lit/PICmicro/16F87X/index.htm > >These chips are proposed for the PIC based EPROM emulator over on gmecm. >(BTW, drawing my proposed schematic for the emulator is bubbling up to the >top of my priority queue.) Do you have a url for that project? >>i/o out the wazoo >33 I/O lines maximum isn't a lot, especially with the way that Microchip >scatters the built-in peripherals onto these pins. I suppose "wazoo" is a relative term. :) Of course you can get as many as you need via the old shift register technique... >>2) Allowed the processor to read/write the program space at runtime. This >>would be very useful for fuel maps and the like. Prior to this processor >>- >>that sort of thing would have required addition components. >AFAIK, every PIC has been able to have data tables in the built-in "ROM" - >- using the "return and load W" opcode. True - but this new family allows you to (on the fly) WRITE to program space! This would (could?) be used for modding maps on the fly w/o a separate programming module, EPROM emulator, etc... You also can directly access the program space via the Flash SFR registers - don't have to use that awkward "computed goto" return-W cludge! :) Looks like there is some form of half-bank memory protection. This would prevent a software glitch from overwriting the executable portion of the program space. You could put the r/w maps up in the less protected area and leave the area containing the program protected. Write time to the code space is 4-10 msec per byte. No page mode available :( Spoke to a microchip rep today who claims that shipments of ALL of those families (16F873,4,6,7) starts June 11th. Several specific parts (probably the smaller die parts with less memory?) have been in production for several months, and have shipped in excess of 10K parts. Looks like this thing is for real - no more "vapor". - -Bill _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 15:23:21 -0700 From: garfield@xxx.com (Gar Willis) Subject: Re: 02 Sensors On Wed, 9 Jun 1999 08:53:43 -0600, "Kevin Yachimec" wrote: >I'm new to the group and I didn't realize that NTK put a special inferace >after the sensor. Thanks for pointing that out. >I'm going search the archives first before I ask any more questions. Always good to intro yerself, so's we know you've just come onboard, and have not simply unlurked. The reason why I'm keen to strenuously emphasize the nature/derivation of that Vout/AFR curve, is I don't wanna see someone go plunk down $100US+ on some sensor, and THEN find out about the nature of the sensor not giving a direct output of that curve. When something is that spendy, ya don't wanna see anyone making a false move. B) Gar ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 17:53:24 -0500 From: Bill Kibbe Subject: Re: Topic scan tool bin files David , I somehow lost the post you sent outlining what type of EEC V info you were interested in so I will have to respond to this one. From what I can gather, you are interested in pretty much any EEC V stuff I can provide. That's O.K. but I have much more than anyone would care to read or I could type in one post, so what do you say to starting a series of posts? I could start with the basics, diagrams, pinouts and such, then try to get a little deeper as we go. Until I get as deep as I can go, which I'm sure will not be near far enough for the advanced Techies that frequent this group. But I will do the best I can. Some of the stuff I may have to send to you directly for reasons you can figure out, but then if you decide to "share" , it will be coming from someone else besides me. If you guys agree, I will start gathering stuff up tomorrow and try to start the postings as soon as I can. David A. Cooley wrote: > Hmm... > Got any info on the EEC-V in the 97 Explorer 4.0L OHV? > Wanting to play with mine... Finding a lot on the EEC-IV, but coming up dry > on the EEC-V > > At 06:01 PM 6/8/99 -0500, you wrote: > >Hello group, > > I am currently using a Hickok NGS New Generation Star Tester for my > EEC IV > >and EEC V work. Since I work for Ford, I am using the Ford specific version of > >software. Since Ford announced this month that NGS is now no longer the "Ford > >Specific" scan tool starting with the new LS 2000 Lincoln introduced this > >month. > >So Ford will no longer support the NGS tool starting July 1st. That means no > >more > >software updates will be provided on a monthly basis on the SBTS update disk. > >Instead Ford will be introducing the WDS (World Diagnostic System) next month. > > Here is my problem, I would like to make a couple of backup PCMCIA program > >cards for my NGS in case my personal cards get lost or damaged. So far I have > >been > >able to copy the bin files from the program card to a floppy disk. However I > >run > >into problems when i try to load these files on to a generic PCMCIA flash > >card.I > >get a JEDIA-OP error. I am using the same CardTalk software that the SBST > >uses to > >upgrade > >the Hickok cards. What I would like to find out is if anyone knows if > there is > >software available to decode bin files so I can identify the programs on the > >card. Or any other suggestions that may enable me to transfer these files. > > =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! > =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 19:09:07 -0700 From: rr Subject: Re: New Microchip PIC processor. David A. Cooley wrote: > > At 05:16 PM 6/8/99 -0700, you wrote: > > > > >really? that's interesting. i guess i didn't think that they could hack it > >b/c > >they run at about 2MHz, don't have a lot of I/0 lines (unless you get the 52 > >pin), > >and were generally pretty old. i guess that's my fault. i figured that > >there were > >better out there. > >so, let me rephrase that, HC11's could hack it, but they can be improved upon. > > GM's use in 93 and up is the HC11F1... Lots of A/D, IO, address space > etc... they run the external clock and 12.something MHZ... internal is 4MHz > at that external rate... Up until OBD_II, data I/O from the HC11 based > PCM's was 8192 baud... OBD_II is 10.4KBPS VPW. > Most of the later PCM's have 2 CPU's (Both HC11F1's).. I believe one is > dedicated to nothing but spark control. This doesn't surprise me (a cpu dedicated to ign ctrl). From what I've seen, spark takes a lot of table space and code space. It's easily half of the available system. GM finally went and just split the task per cpu in half. BobR. > =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! > =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 19:13:58 -0500 From: Thomas McCabe Subject: Re: Chrysler EFI "M. Jones" wrote: > > Hello-- > > Anybody out there doing anything with Chrysler systems? The 5.2L in my Durango > is probably the worst 'modern' engine control scheme I've yet driven. It's > lifeless and unresponsive below 2800 rpms, when it suddenly wakes up. (It's so > sudden that I don't believe it's cam specs causing it.) Response on initial > tip-in is good, until about a quarter of a second later, when it then feels > like a lean condition sets in. It then kind of sags and surges in a minor, but > very annoying, way throughout the acceleration regime. > > A replacement O2 sensor did not correct the symptoms, and a friend with the > same engine in his pickup reports the same behavior. > > Any ideas? Yes, Sell it and buy a Chevy! I'm tired of fighting Chryco over the problems with my '96 Dakota and the usual response : That's Normal, or you have to live with it. Good Luck! Chryco just lost a dedicated customer! I think I'll stick to my FWD mopars. At least I understand their computers! L8r - -- Thomas McCabe - -mccabet@xxx.net '85 D250, 340 on Propane, Auto '89 Lebaron GTC, 2.2L Turbo II, A-555 5 Speed, MPSBEC '91 Spirit R/T, 2.2L DOHC 16 Valve T3, A568 5 Speed, Anti-lock Brakes, Power Windows, Locks, Drivers Seat. '96 Dakota SLT Club Cab, Brilliant Blue, 5.2L, Auto, 3.55 SG, Gibson Cat-Back Exhaust, ARE A-234 15x7 rims w/ Dunlop GT Qualifiers 255R60-15, Molded running boards and flares, Lund bug shield, Cool Fronts, Ventvisors, and Extang Saber Tonnue cover. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 18:33:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@xxx.us (Dave Williams) Subject: Re: Combustion Pressure Sensor - revisited - -> Duckworth lately??? :-) (Or just reading Glassman?) Only thing that I - -> would add is that I THINK that there is no such thing as TOO quick a - -> burn--so long as the patterns of turbulence in the chamber are - -> CONSISTENT. I think that the urban legend that too quick a burn leads - -> to a rough running engine GM discusses this in some of their engineering papers - the one for the 2.0 SOHC in the J-Car is a good example. The 2.0 used a quick burn chamber, offset ports, and swirl vanes in the ports to give a very high amount of turbulence in the chamber. Worked great for fuel economy and emissions, but it took a lot of fiddling before the NVH guys would sign off on it. When the cars reached the dealers there were further problems, not just with customer complaints, but with experienced GM line mechanics diagnosing idle/low speed combustion noise as ping. GM wound up issuing a number of service bulletins on the subject. Note the fast burn posed no mechanical problems; the only problems were in noise, vibration, and harshness, which are always troublesome for 2.0 sized fours to start with. ==dave.williams@xxx.us====================================== I've got a secret / I've been hiding / under my skin / | Who are you? my heart is human / my blood is boiling / my brain IBM | who, who? =================================== http://home1.gte.net/42/index.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 20:28:14 -0400 From: Scot Sealander Subject: Re: Public & Private Groups Compared Gar Willis wrote: Some good words that really need to be read.... > So if you're discontented, Sandy, consider testing the waters for a > private/governed newslist. Sounds like a great idea! I am tired of 10k RPM posts, ANY post thatcomes from Todd.... whoever he is. And hemi this or that, IRS whatever in something, hypoid gear angle advantages, prowler V-6's, metric essays.... Did I miss anyone? Oh yes I did... ;-) The ones who reply to a post and re-send the ENTIRE post that you responded to (which was probably a complete re-post also..) and then add a one liner that really doesn't matter anyway. It's no wonder that Mike said a little EFI list was so many pages. So. Please keep to the list topic of EFI. Please change the subject line if you change the subject, please edit the posts you are reponding to! Be considerate! Thanks, Scot Sealander Sealand@xxx.com > You'll find as we have, that although the > numbers of "members" diminishes dramatically, the productivity also > increases pretty astoundingly. Not saying there shouldn't be a DIY_EFI > as presently constituted, so don't let's hear THAT accusation, please; > but just tryna answer Sandy's laments about the inevitable lack of focus > in a totally pubic group. Whoops, I meant public, of course. :) > > Gar > > P.S. As a vendor, I'm now more sensitive to the need to maintain a > diplomatic profile, as you can see from the above. Heh. ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #349 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".