DIY_EFI Digest Thursday, June 10 1999 Volume 04 : Number 350 In this issue: Re: 10,000 RPM Re: Chrysler EFI Re: o2 sensor RE: Metric essay Re: Topic scan tool bin files Re: Tricolor LED Standards (Was: Metric essay) Re: Topic scan tool bin files Re: Edelbrock TBI conversion to PI Re: Chrysler EFI Re: Topic scan tool bin files Re: Chrysler EFI moderation and focus Re: o2 sensor speedo converter needed 61 Corvette TPI conversion Re: What mfg are GM eproms? Re: Public & Private Groups Compared--bak on topik Re: Topic scan tool bin files Converting 351C to TBI Re: speedo converter needed Re: 61 Corvette TPI conversion Re: speedo converter needed OT - IR carburetion (Mikuni) Re: speedo converter needed Re: RE: Metric essay RE: o2 price? See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 20:58:50 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: 10,000 RPM Pat Ford wrote: > > Previously, you (David Cooley) wrote: > > At 08:28 AM 6/9/99 -0400, you wrote: > > >doesn't Vermont use Saab 9000 SPGs as hiway cars, I find it hard to believe > > >that a heavy car like the Caprice would keep up to the saab ( I worked at > > >a Saab > > >dealer and got to test drive the SPGs) > > > > The caprice cop car in 96 had a 275HP LT1 that made 330 or 350 lb/ft torque > > (Can't remember which) and I believe it had a 3.42 (or close to it) rear > > gear... 0-60 was in the 7 second range... it was a bit faster than the > > Impala SS. > > cool, what was the usefull top speed ( not the tail wind, downhill > 10 mile straight speed) > Montana Highway Patrol Caprice, 140 with the patrolman driving, according to service manager. I never took it past 130. Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 21:11:45 EDT From: AL8001@xxx.com Subject: Re: Chrysler EFI In a message dated 99-06-09 12:19:34 EDT, rmjones@xxx.net writes: >Response on initial >tip-in is good, until about a quarter of a second later, when it then feels >like a lean condition sets in. It then kind of sags and surges in a minor, >but >very annoying, way throughout the acceleration regime. How about watching the ignition timeing? Shouldn't be difficult to rig up a system that: Takes a signal from a add on magnetic sensor placed at TDC ( or some known offset) Records RPM And watches when the coil is fired. Run the above information through a algorithm that takes pulse delay between the add on mag sensor and coil fireing, then factors in RPM ( really degrees per second) to give spark advance. Some '80s engines had a probe mount on the front cover (GM) or had a pipe plug in the block and a notch on the crank ( Ford 1.6 Escort ,2.3 Mustang) to set timeing at the factory. Harold 95 degrees in PA, not a good time to write coherent E mail! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 16:18:58 -0400 From: Barry Tisdale Subject: Re: o2 sensor Got a 10 segment built & I notice the same thing - when *cold*, you get a midrange reading till the sensor heats up; maybe a minute or so. Normal swings after its hot. This is normal performance - doesn't swing back & forth past stoich point till its fully heated. Barry ------------------------------ Date: 10 Jun 99 13:14:26 +1200 From: "Tom Parker" Subject: RE: Metric essay Robertson, Nigel wrote: >At last someone with a true grip on the situation. >Incidentally, I believe that people at the National Physics Lab in the UK >have been developing a replacement definition for the kilogram and is based >on forces produced by an electromagnet. This force can be related to >voltage and current which are better defined than the lump of metal platinum >under the glass dome at NPL which is slowly evaporating away This is interesting... I seem to remember that the amp was defined by the force generated by an electromagnet? Not totally sure on this one. This is the limit of my metrology knowlege. I'm going to shut up now... - -- Tom Parker - parkert@xxx.nz - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8381/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 21:20:12 +0000 From: xxalexx@xxx.com Subject: Re: Topic scan tool bin files There are programs that will disassemble Intel PC binary executable, data files, ROM, RAM and BIOS. I have never used one. You can use you rMS- DOS program DEBUG or Borland Turbo Debugger. It seems the best program is "Sourcer" fom V-Communications written by Frank Van Gilluwe were I am referencing this information in a book he wrote"The Undocumented PC" 1st edition 1994. The Sourcer program will separate code from data, locate port I/O usage, start and entry points, a interrupt synopsis, generate comments in complete assembly source code. He first wrote the program in 1988, so should be some where on internet and probably more improvements by now. I have been trying to connect to Ford OBD2 with no success. Presently I have a vehicle simulator hooked to a 96 Snap-On. I can read byte code fine, but as soon as I transmit the scan tool cuts me off. I also can get various 3 bit messages which seem to indicate impeadance mismatch or other comm. problems. I have found some references on the Ford Standard Corporate Protocol SCP Protocol Definitions and Interface Requirements part number ES-F7LC-12K529-BA and SCP Diagnostic Message and Dialouge Requirements........-CA Can these be ordered by parts dept.? also" Hosted Bus Controller Chip User Guide" by Ford Alex > Hello group, > I am currently using a Hickok NGS New Generation Star Tester for my EEC IV > and EEC V work. Since I work for Ford, I am using the Ford specific version of > software. Since Ford announced this month that NGS is now no longer the "Ford > Specific" scan tool starting with the new LS 2000 Lincoln introduced this month. > So Ford will no longer support the NGS tool starting July 1st. That means no more > software updates will be provided on a monthly basis on the SBTS update disk. > Instead Ford will be introducing the WDS (World Diagnostic System) next month. > Here is my problem, I would like to make a couple of backup PCMCIA program > cards for my NGS in case my personal cards get lost or damaged. So far I have > been > able to copy the bin files from the program card to a floppy disk. However I run > into problems when i try to load these files on to a generic PCMCIA flash card.I > get a JEDIA-OP error. I am using the same CardTalk software that the SBST uses to > upgrade > the Hickok cards. What I would like to find out is if anyone knows if there is > software available to decode bin files so I can identify the programs on the > card. Or any other suggestions that may enable me to transfer these files. > > > > bkibbe wrote: > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 22:29:26 -0400 From: Raymond C Drouillard Subject: Re: Tricolor LED Lesson #1: The guys at Radio Shack have the same IQ as the guys behind the parts counter at your local auto parts store. I walked downstairs and located a new (in the box) two-lead bicolor LED. It'll glow yellow if fed an AC signal. Otherwise, it's red or green - depending on the polarity. Anyhow, the Cat no. is 276-012. Now that you have a part number, the minimum-wage employees will be able to find the part for you. Ray Drouillard On Wed, 09 Jun 1999 10:32:40 -0500 Clarence Wood writes: > Thanks everyone for the comments. I am trying to build the "Fuel >Injector Monitor Eye" By Bowling, so I need the two wire Tricolor LED. > I have called Radio Shack and they didn't know what I was talking >about and referred me to Tech America because they carry "strange >components". Incidentally, they, Radio Shack, want $13.42 for the >LM3914; their affiliate, Tech America is asking $2.85 and DigiKey >wants $3.29. > I also called Tech America and they said they didn't have any >Tricolor LED's, as did DigiKey. > Can anyone send me the 800 phone number for Mouser?? > > > > > >IZCC #3426 > 1982 280ZX Turbo GL > 1966 El Camino > 1982 Yamaha Maxim XJ-1101J Motorcycle > 1975 Honda CB750 SS (black engine) > 1986 Snapper Comet lawn mower >Clarence Wood >Software&Such... >clarencewood@xxx.net >Savannah, TN. ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 22:05:50 -0400 From: Raymond C Drouillard Subject: Standards (Was: Metric essay) >>But I think one of these definitions may have changed recently too---how >>droll!! (Another droll one from the trolls at ISO!??!!) :-) >The definitions change to take advantage of better metrology. >Very few people will ever use the interferomtery standard, but when they do, >there is a standard so results can be compared. >You can't write down how to make a kilogram standard, you can only say go to >the french and compare your standard with theirs and adjust it to suit. > >(there are better ways to define the kilogram... but the primary standard is >still the french lump of metal). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Of the Definition of Standards ... The US Standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4 feet, 8.5 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number. Why was that gauge used? Because that's the way they built them in England, and the US railroads were built by English expatriates. Why did the English people build them like that? Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who built the pre-railroad tramways, and that's the gauge they used. Why did "they" use that gauge then? Because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and tools that they used for building wagons, which used that wheel spacing. Okay! Why did the wagons use that odd wheel spacing? Well, if they tried to use any other spacing the wagons would break on some of the old, long distance roads, because that's the spacing of the old wheel ruts. So who built these old rutted roads? The first long distance roads in Europe were built by Imperial Rome for the benefit of their legions. The roads have been used ever since. And the ruts? The initial ruts, which everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their wagons, were first made by Roman war chariots. Since the chariots were made for or by Imperial Rome they were all alike in the matter of wheel spacing. Thus, we have the answer to the original questions. The United States standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches derives from the original specification (Military Spec) for an Imperial Roman army war chariot. MilSpecs and Bureaucracies live forever. So, the next time you are handed a specification and wonder what horse's ass came up with it, you may be exactly right. Because the Imperial Roman chariots were made to be just wide enough to accommodate the back-ends of two war horses. Yet this standard may be even older. 4'8.5" in English measure is 5 pes in Roman measure; the pes "foot" of 12 unciae "inches" was only about 11.3 inches in the later calibration. The reason that the English foot is longer than the Roman is that copies of copies of the standard measuring stick had become discrepant, so England restandardized by the royal appendage of King Edward I "Longshanks" (who apparently had some real clodhoppers at the end of his long shanks). So the specification was based on a simple integer approximation, 2 equine rears = 5 human feet. Now, the two-horse war chariot was already a very obsolete style by Imperial times. Julius Caesar was amazed to find the Britons still fighting in these things (which they called "essed", a favorite word for some crossword-puzzle constructors). Both the Romans and the Britons had originally learned this style of war from Trojan War refugees: the losing side fled west to Italy (as romanticized in the Aeneid), Spain, and even out the Gibraltar straits to the British Isles (the Danaans, from Argolis in Greece but on the "wrong" side of the war, are well documented in Ireland; and Britain is supposedly named for a Trojan leader). Thus, it is possible that the standard chariot with 5-foot wheel spacing goes back to Troy. We are of course beyond the reach of reliable records, but it may well be that US Standard Gauge is backward compatible all the way to Trojan Milspec. Part 2: All true. And perhaps instructive ... Roman war chariots were set to 4'8.5" wheel spacing for a good reason, and that reason, for the most part, still applied to horse-drawn vehicles right up until mechanisation did away with horses. Up to that point, there was good reason not to change the standard, and no good reason to change it. Even on the early plateways, even with mechanical locomotion, there was still good reason to keep the old gauge -- the jigs were already available to make the wagons (and the wagons were originally horse-drawn models anyway), and no really good reason to change it. (One should note that these early plateways had the flange on the rail rather than the wheel, so the wagons could run both on roads and on the plateways.) Up until railways were invented, wagons were mounted between their wheels, partly for stability but mostly because large wheels are better able to negotiate bumps in roads. Early railway wagons, although given smaller wheels, were still mounted between the wheels. Steam locomotion however meant that larger loads could be pulled, and increasing the capacity of wagons became important. For a while no-one wanted to build rolling stock that was too wide for fear of having it overbalance. Instead, broaded gauges were used, up to 7'. Broad gauges soon proved to have limitations in cornering at any kind of speed, so the problem of overbalancing carriages was revisited, and it was found that the narrower "standard" gauge could be used, with a decently wide carriage, and it still didn't matter if everyone sat on the same side of the carriage because the centre of gravity didn't move outside the wheels. Narrower gauges still could be used, at the expense of less stable rolling stock -- this was frequently done in hilly places where bends needed to be tight to negotiate tricky country. In the end, standard gauge -- 4'8.5" -- prevailed, simply because the alternatives, all the way down the ages, have not provided sufficient reason to change. ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 22:02:32 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: Topic scan tool bin files At 05:53 PM 6/9/99 -0500, you wrote: >David , I somehow lost the post you sent outlining what type of EEC V info >you were >interested in so I will have to respond to this one. From what I can gather, >you >are interested in pretty much any EEC V stuff I can provide. That's O.K. but >I have >much more than anyone would care to read or I could type in one post, so >what do >you say to >starting a series of posts? I could start with the basics, diagrams, pinouts >and >such, then try to get a little deeper as we go. Until I get as deep as I can >go, >which I'm sure will not >be near far enough for the advanced Techies that frequent this group. But I >will do >the best I can. Some of the stuff I may have to send to you directly for >reasons >you can figure out, but then if you decide to "share" , it will be coming from >someone else besides me. If you guys agree, I will start gathering stuff up >tomorrow and try to start the postings as soon as I can. Hi Bill, No Problem! Best to start with the basics and work up from there... Basically I'm looking for anything and everything on the EEC-V... I was really moving with the GM ECM's and was re-programming my 95 lesabre sometimes 2-3 times a day to try new things... using the laptop to monitor it all while doing it... When I traded it in 2 weeks ago for the Explorer, I had upgraded from 19lb/hr injectors to 30 lb/hr, gotten timing optimized, fuel optimized, and had knocked over a second off the 0-60 times.... Looking to be able to play with the EEC-V as much or more than the GM. Thanks in advance, Dave =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 22:10:49 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Edelbrock TBI conversion to PI SPECTRO COATING CORP. wrote: > > Also - I have a list of injectors & flowrates that i have been putting > together - most of it you've all seen but i've done the unit conversions and > corrected some mistakes i found in other peoples stuff - does anyone wnat me > to post it? (its about 14 of Word text) > > Later - jason Can you put it on the FTP site? Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 19:10:42 -0700 From: neilaura@xxx.com Subject: Re: Chrysler EFI At 10:16 AM 6/9/99 -0600, you wrote: >Hello-- > >Anybody out there doing anything with Chrysler systems? The 5.2L in my Durango >is probably the worst 'modern' engine control scheme I've yet driven. It's >lifeless and unresponsive below 2800 rpms, when it suddenly wakes up. (It's so >sudden that I don't believe it's cam specs causing it.) Response on initial >tip-in is good, until about a quarter of a second later, when it then feels >like a lean condition sets in. It then kind of sags and surges in a minor, but >very annoying, way throughout the acceleration regime. > >A replacement O2 sensor did not correct the symptoms, and a friend with the >same engine in his pickup reports the same behavior. > >Any ideas? > >Mike J. >rmjones@xxx.net > >'97 Expedition 5.4L >'98 Durango 5.2L >'86 Malibu Skier TBI'd 351W > As it's a 98 Mike, the best idea is to take it back to the dealer and tell them to fix it. That's what factory warranties are for!. Neil ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 22:15:06 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: Topic scan tool bin files At 09:20 PM 6/9/99 +0000, you wrote: >There are programs that will disassemble Intel PC binary executable, data >files, ROM, RAM and BIOS. I have never used one. >You can use you rMS- DOS program DEBUG or Borland Turbo Debugger. >It seems the best program is "Sourcer" fom V-Communications written by >Frank Van Gilluwe were I am referencing this information in a book >he wrote"The Undocumented PC" 1st edition 1994. The Sourcer program >will separate code from data, locate port I/O usage, start and entry points, >a interrupt synopsis, generate comments in complete assembly source code. >He first wrote the program in 1988, so should be some where on internet >and probably more improvements by now. > I found a great disassembler that supports 57 different CPU's... you tell it what CPU it's for after it loads the BIN and it disassembles like mad. It's called Interactive Disassembler Pro. >I have been trying to connect to Ford OBD2 with no success. >Presently I have a vehicle simulator hooked to a 96 Snap-On. >I can read byte code fine, but as soon as I transmit the scan tool >cuts me off. I also can get various 3 bit messages which seem to >indicate impeadance mismatch or other comm. problems. >I have found some references on the Ford Standard Corporate Protocol >SCP Protocol Definitions and Interface Requirements >part number ES-F7LC-12K529-BA and >SCP Diagnostic Message and Dialouge Requirements........-CA >Can these be ordered by parts dept.? >also" Hosted Bus Controller Chip User Guide" by Ford Might also check the SAE HS3000... pretty definitive spec's for the comms, especially the 41.6KBPS VPW the Fords use. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 22:17:58 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: Chrysler EFI At 07:10 PM 6/9/99 -0700, you wrote: >As it's a 98 Mike, the best idea is to take it back to the dealer and tell >them to fix it. That's what factory warranties are for!. And if the selling dealer won't fix it, take it to another dealer... Some are really great for service, others are real pieces of work... Keep the Chrysler customer 1 number handy as well, as they will ding dealerships badly if they aren't taking care of the customers. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 12:25:44 +1000 From: Wayne Blair Subject: moderation and focus To conserve bandwidth imagine what Scot said just a little cooler. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< bye >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wayne [Brisbane Australia] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 22:18:45 +0000 From: xxalexx@xxx.com Subject: Re: o2 sensor This is a low current bias voltage. When the sensor warms up it will produce more current and over ride it. Provides a indication to computer on 02 status and if can go closed loop. Typical bias voltage slightly under 0.5 volts. You can check by disconnecting from O2 sensor and read voltage from wire. Could be helpful for a meter cal. check alex > Got a 10 segment built & I notice the same thing - when *cold*, you get a midrange reading till the sensor heats up; maybe a minute or so. Normal swings after its hot. This is normal performance - > > Barry > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 19:40:35 -0700 From: "Mike Pilkenton" Subject: speedo converter needed Does anyone have a simple frequency converter circuit that could be used to calibrate a typical inductive pickup signal to the proper frequency based on different tire and gear ratios? I envision a circuit that would use the stock pulsed signalk from the tranny and then provide a fine tuning trim pot that would vary the frequency up or down based on the above parameters. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 22:04:55 -0500 From: "Dan Plaskett" Subject: 61 Corvette TPI conversion This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_00C1_01BEB2C4.1B95F860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone know if it is possible to simply convert my stock points = manual tach drive distributor for use in a chevy TPI application? If = not has anyone ever seen a HEI distributor with a mechanical tach drive? - ------=_NextPart_000_00C1_01BEB2C4.1B95F860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Does anyone know if it is possible to simply convert = my stock=20 points manual tach drive distributor for use in a chevy TPI = application? =20 If not has anyone ever seen a HEI distributor with a mechanical tach=20 drive?
- ------=_NextPart_000_00C1_01BEB2C4.1B95F860-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 13:09:50 -0600 From: "Programmer" Subject: Re: What mfg are GM eproms? David, I've always used the "National Semiconductor" setting--never tried the generic one. Lyndon - -----Original Message----- From: David A. Cooley To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Sunday, June 06, 1999 1:00 PM Subject: Re: What mfg are GM eproms? >At 01:08 AM 6/6/99 -0500, you wrote: >>Asked this question about how to identigy chips a few days ago. I'll try >>again with a more specific question. Trying to reprogram eproms from a >>GM 1227748 (sequential turbo MAF) ECM. I need to know the manufacturer >>of the chip to set up the device type in my EMP10 programmer. What is >>it? The programmer doesn't tell my as far as I know. Apparently I'm >>supposed to know? Sorry, I'm in over my head. The chips are only marked >>"Delco" along with a bunch of part numbers that mean nothing to me. I >>can't even get one to read correctly without knowing that info. Any body >>want to help out a newbie? > >Greg, >I use "Generic" for manufacturer on those... works fine with my PB10 >=========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! >=========================================================== > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 21:01:17 -0600 From: "Programmer" Subject: Re: Public & Private Groups Compared--bak on topik Scot, Staying on "topic"--anyone know the trouble code areas in the 8747 ECM ?? >< There....no repost of any previous topic on this message. Lyndon IPTECH nwester@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 23:14:47 +0000 From: xxalexx@xxx.com Subject: Re: Topic scan tool bin files > At 09:20 PM 6/9/99 +0000, you wrote: > >There are programs that will disassemble Intel PC binary executable, data > >files, ROM, RAM and BIOS. I have never used one. > >You can use you rMS- DOS program DEBUG or Borland Turbo Debugger. > >It seems the best program is "Sourcer" fom V-Communications written by > >Frank Van Gilluwe were I am referencing this information in a book > >he wrote"The Undocumented PC" 1st edition 1994. The Sourcer program > >will separate code from data, locate port I/O usage, start and entry points, > >a interrupt synopsis, generate comments in complete assembly source code. > >He first wrote the program in 1988, so should be some where on internet > >and probably more improvements by now. > > > > I found a great disassembler that supports 57 different CPU's... you tell > it what CPU it's for after it loads the BIN and it disassembles like mad. > It's called Interactive Disassembler Pro. > > >I have been trying to connect to Ford OBD2 with no success. > >Presently I have a vehicle simulator hooked to a 96 Snap-On. > >I can read byte code fine, but as soon as I transmit the scan tool > >cuts me off. I also can get various 3 bit messages which seem to > >indicate impeadance mismatch or other comm. problems. > >I have found some references on the Ford Standard Corporate Protocol > >SCP Protocol Definitions and Interface Requirements > >part number ES-F7LC-12K529-BA and > >SCP Diagnostic Message and Dialouge Requirements........-CA > >Can these be ordered by parts dept.? > >also" Hosted Bus Controller Chip User Guide" by Ford > > Might also check the SAE HS3000... pretty definitive spec's for the comms, > especially the 41.6KBPS VPW the Fords use. > I have the 95 edition, I based my circuit on the SGS-Thomson circuit. but used either PIC port driver and sink or bipolor transistors as in a Oki app note instead of the MOSFET's. Will try the HBCC schematic next that uses 4 2N3906. I have found the pullup's and down's of 500 ohms work well for recieving. alex ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 22:58:30 CDT From: Full Throttle Subject: Converting 351C to TBI Hello everyone. Let me introduce myself. My name is Michael Goff and I have been Lurking for some time. The reason I joined this mailing list is because I want to retro fit my '70 Torino with fuel Injection. Let me first say that I have alot of respect for you guys(I know, brown noser:), MOST of what is discussed here is at the edge of my ability to casually follow.( I really do not want to actually LEARN most of what you guys seem to LOVE to discuss)..heh. Anyway, I am rebuilding the engine, and I have purchased an Eldebrock duel-plane Intake, I will be running Streatable compression, 2V heads(Aussy), and A 272 comp cam. I have looked at the Holley and Turbo City setups as 1 possible option. Cost Is a big factor, and I do not want to go MORE that around $1200-$1500 and I would Prefer alot less, but that seems to be the retail price of most of the "bolt on" TBI kits. I have considered taking a GM TBI from a late 80's-early 90's chevy 350 and going from there. That is where you guys come in :) What do all of you recommend? I am not against something Challenging, as long as I have good support ...hehe again, you guys. Sooooo, lay it on me...I am all ears, er eyes :) Mike Goff aka Full Throttle _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 00:51:27 -0400 From: "Kevin" Subject: Re: speedo converter needed Hey Mike, I was thinking about this one before... I think what you can do is get a National LM 2917... it is a frequency to voltage converter using a change pump... then take that voltage.. and throw it into a pot... that will vary the voltage.. now just feed the varying voltage into a 555 to make a squarwave output with a frequency dependant on the voltage coming in. Just an idea Cheers, Kevin >Does anyone have a simple frequency converter circuit that could be used to >calibrate a typical inductive pickup signal to the proper frequency based on >different tire and gear ratios? I envision a circuit that would use the >stock pulsed signalk from the tranny and then provide a fine tuning trim pot >that would vary the frequency up or down based on the above parameters. > >Mike > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 23:56:06 -0500 From: "G. Scott Ponton" Subject: Re: 61 Corvette TPI conversion This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01BEB2D3.A3D45DC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It seems like I have seen a tach drive HEI at some point but can't = remember. It's not all that hard to convert the points type though. Pull = the shaft out of it and change the upper bushing for one in an HEI. They = are the same size just the HEI is slightly longer to make up for the = pickup coil height. You may have to modify the pickup coil bracket in = order to mount it solidly. From what I remember the original points type = doesn't have a vacumn advance, but could be wrong. Remove the centrifical advance and points cam from the original shaft. = Cut the rotor plate away from the points cam and install it to the top = of the reluctor (tooth part) from the HEI shaft and slide over the shaft = and mount it solid to the shaft. This assumes you are using a programmed = timing type computor. Reassemble the shaft to the dissy body. You may = find you have to add a slight amount of lenth to the shaft in order for = the tach drive to line up. Also you need to test fit the dissy in your = block and make sure the oil pump drive has less than .080" end play. To = reduce the end play add material to the end of the shaft. While you are = at it make sure the end play for the gear is less than .060" for an = aluminum dissy or less than .040" for a iron one. MSD makes a cap-a-dap = unit for the chevy points type that allows the use of a Ford type cap. = The rotor is adjustable for proper phasing. Just cut a hole by one of = the terminals of an old cap and make sure with the engine running the = rotor lines up with the terminal in the cap. I have built a couple of these type convertions. If I can be of any = help let me know.=20 Scott - ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01BEB2D3.A3D45DC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It seems like I have seen a tach drive HEI at some point but can't=20 remember. It's not all that hard to convert the points type though. Pull = the=20 shaft out of it and change the upper bushing for one in an HEI. They are = the=20 same size just the HEI is slightly longer to make up for the pickup coil = height.=20 You may have to modify the pickup coil bracket in order to mount it = solidly.=20 From what I remember the original points type doesn't have a vacumn = advance, but=20 could be wrong.
Remove the centrifical advance and points cam from the original = shaft. Cut=20 the rotor plate away from the points cam and install it to the top of = the=20 reluctor (tooth part) from the HEI shaft and slide over the shaft and = mount it=20 solid to the shaft. This assumes you are using a programmed timing type=20 computor. Reassemble the shaft to the dissy body. You may find you have = to add a=20 slight amount of lenth to the shaft in order for the tach drive to line = up. Also=20 you need to test fit the dissy in your block and make sure the oil pump = drive=20 has less than .080" end play. To reduce the end play add material = to the=20 end of the shaft. While you are at it make sure the end play for the = gear is=20 less than .060" for an aluminum dissy or less than .040" for a = iron=20 one. MSD makes a cap-a-dap unit for the chevy points type that allows = the use of=20 a Ford type cap. The rotor is adjustable for proper phasing. Just cut a = hole by=20 one of the terminals of an old cap and make sure with the engine running = the=20 rotor lines up with the terminal in the cap.
    I have built a couple of these type convertions. If I can be of = any help=20 let me know. 
Scott
- ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01BEB2D3.A3D45DC0-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 21:57:46 -0700 From: Charles Morgan Subject: Re: speedo converter needed Mike, if you only need to frequency divide then you could use a simple binary rate multiplier like the SN7497. SN7497s can be cascaded to provide whatever resolution you need. One potential problem with a binary rate multiplier, however, is that it divides synchrounously and hence introduces jitter unless the division is by a multiple of 2. If you need to both frequency divide and multiply, and do it asynchronously, then you can use a multiple timer PIC (like the 16F87X that has been discussed recently) and set the timers to overflow at different rates (let me know if you want more details). If you really want to set the frequency with a pot, then you could use a frequency-to-voltage converter like the LM2917 followed by a voltage-to-frequency converter like the LM331, with a trip pot in between. Charles Morgan At 07:40 PM 6/9/99 -0700, Mike Pilkenton wrote: >Does anyone have a simple frequency converter circuit that could be used to >calibrate a typical inductive pickup signal to the proper frequency based on >different tire and gear ratios? I envision a circuit that would use the >stock pulsed signalk from the tranny and then provide a fine tuning trim pot >that would vary the frequency up or down based on the above parameters. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 22:16:55 -0700 From: Aaron Willis Subject: OT - IR carburetion (Mikuni) This non-EFI. Anybody want to discuss some IR manifold/carburetion theory with me (off-list, if necessary)? I have a new toy...never played with sidedrafts before. Aaron Willis ICQ #27386985 AOL IM: hemiyota http://surf.to/garage-te51 Garage TE51 International ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 15:34:49 +1000 From: Peter Gargano Subject: Re: speedo converter needed I don't have one, but.. A simple frequency converter, as described below, isn't a simple thing to do accurately. An easy, all analogue way, is a frequency to voltage to frequency converter. The bit in the middle could have a "volume" control to account for gears, tyres, or whatever - perhaps even with switched variable resistors that need be calibrated just the once. A more complicated, but more accurate way involves a PIC (etc.) ... Mike Pilkenton wrote: > Does anyone have a simple frequency converter circuit that could be used to > calibrate a typical inductive pickup signal to the proper frequency based on > different tire and gear ratios? I envision a circuit that would use the > stock pulsed signalk from the tranny and then provide a fine tuning trim pot > that would vary the frequency up or down based on the above parameters. - -- Peter Gargano ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 02:22:39 EDT From: Regnirps@xxx.com Subject: Re: RE: Metric essay In a message dated 6/9/99 8:13:27 PM, parkert@xxx.com writes: >I seem to remember that the amp was defined by the force generated by an >electromagnet? Not totally sure on this one. > >This is the limit of my metrology knowlege. I'm going to shut up now... In the old days an Amp was one Coulomb per Second of electric charge and this was measured by electrochemical deposition of metals that could be weighed to see how many Moles ....... Charlie Springer ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 08:27:58 +0100 From: "Robertson, Nigel" Subject: RE: o2 price? David I know absolutely nothing about the ECM you are referring to, but can I offer this: It electronics it is quite common practice to keep a common earth point for various parts of the system and I would suggest that in auto electronics with quite a few sensors that could be prone to noise the same is true. The ECM on my car (ROVER MEMS) certainly has this set-up. The idea is to avoid creating ground loops so running a ground wire, which is isolated from the chassis ground, to the sensors as well as a signal wire prevents a ground loop being set up around the ground wire and back through the chassis back to the ECM common ground. If the joints between various bits of metal aren't perfect, i.e. rusty body panels, then every bad joint forms a higher resistance than normal. Any ground current flowing through this higher resistance will cause a potential voltage to be developed across it and could therefore alter the ground voltage at the sensor. If your ECM also has a common ground for its sensors then it would be sensible to use the 4 wire O2 sensor. The fact that the 4-wire sensor you tried did not work could suggest that either the ground reference in the ECM is not at ground ( check voltage at ECM pin to battery negative terminal) or the ground wire usually a shield in the cable to the O2 sensor is broken. Your non-isolated sensor worked because the ground was made through the chassis and in your case this was a good electrical connection so luck came into a bit. You may have noticed the idea of running ground wires has increased in auto electrics even for standard accessories, gone are the days when you just ran a wire from the fuse box to the radio and bolted the outer casing to the nearest bit of bare metal. Those of you who may have built HIFI amps will know the effect of ground loops. They manifest themselves as an annoying audible hum which stops you using the amp until you fixed it. Your O2 sensor may be "humming" if you could here it you would certainly do something about it. Well that's my 2 pence, if anyone feels I need educating please let me know. Nigel R _________________________________________________________________________ Nigel Robertson, BEng. CEng. MIEE. Senior Engineer Roke Manor Research Ltd Old Salisbury Lane Romsey SO51 0ZN Tel 01794 833524 Fax 01794 526943 email nigel.robertson@xxx.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: David Cooley [SMTP:n5xmt@xxx.net] > Sent: 09 June 1999 16:49 > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Subject: RE: o2 price? > > At 04:17 PM 6/9/99 +0100, you wrote: > >Can you elaborate a bit more on what the extreme problems with the ECM > are. > > > The sensor, not being grounded to the outer shell, causes the inputs to > the > ECM to "float"... mine went to -2.5 volts and made the ECM thing the > engine > was starving for fuel... The ECM compensated by going full rich and the > engine started chugging, missing and pouring black smoke out the > exhaust. At first I thought the new O2 sensor was bad and made autozone > give me a new one... same thing... After a couple hours of playing, I > hooked a wire from ground to the wire that should have been grounded to > the > shell of the O2 sensor and it ran right. Pulled it out and checked with > an > ohm meter, and it was totally isolated from the shell... Checked the old > AC, and the low side of the sensor was connected directly to the > shell. Bought a new AC and all was well again. > > > >When you say they are isolated from ground do you mean the ground wire is > >not physically connected to the outer metal casing? > > Exactly! > > =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated! > =========================================================== ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #350 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".