DIY_EFI Digest Sunday, June 13 1999 Volume 04 : Number 355 In this issue: Re: CA engine change policy Re: low cost embedded PC's Ford EEC-V Re: low cost embedded PC's Re: low cost embedded PC's EEC-V Re: low cost embedded PC's Embedded PC's and Dodge Trucks Re: Embedded PC's and Dodge Trucks Re: Embedded PC's and Dodge Trucks Not diy_efi....how to disable a computer carb Re: Not diy_efi....how to disable a computer carb Re: Not diy_efi....how to disable a computer carb Re: Not diy_efi....how to disable a computer carb Re: Not diy_efi....how to disable a computer carb 61 Corvette TPI conversion See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 06:04:28 -0700 From: ".." Subject: Re: CA engine change policy One was a 1988 and the other was an '83 (could have been an '84). rap "David A. Cooley" wrote: > My Guess is they are older than 74 > > At 03:41 PM 6/11/99 -0700, you wrote: > >I looked at a couple Jag/Chev conversions in the greater LA area last > >fall.. How are they getting away with these conversions? > > =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! > =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 09:52:05 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: low cost embedded PC's > I ran across this page. They have some single board PC's for less than $200 > including case and power supply. It's small, and PC based. Does anybody see > any drawbacks to something like this? Well, eight A/D lines with 8-bit resolution ain't bad, neither is the small case, and the +5V at 450ma requirement. Works for me! Of course, for an EFI system you'd have a lot more interfacing to do.. we'd have to buffer the sensors and create the appropriate circuits that would take the 0-1V output of the O2 sensor (for example) and spread it over a 0-5V range, so we can use all of the available resolution of the A/D board, but that's not too difficult. its the code :) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:52:58 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Ford EEC-V Hi All, pulled my EEC-V out of my 97 Explorer and have scanned in a shot of the PCB... I'm still writing up an annotation of the parts, so it will be a bit before it's posted, but it's a lot simpler looking than the GM's I'm used to playing with... Has 2 "large" chips, both with Motorola Logos (I always thought the EEC series was Intel based...). One is a 120 pin QFP, and it's labeled : EPIC AM01BC N7500230FSCGMD 185 MBB409U01 YQCU9641 The other is a 68 pin PLCC labeled: SC370674FN N700009BFSCHFA MBA500U01 NJQQB9640 The 68 pin unit *may* be an HC11F1 based chip... not too sure. I've requested info from Motorola on the part, but they may just tell me it's a proprietary 3rd party chip. There is one Intel chip in the box... it's a 32 pin PLCC (not square... 7 pins on each of 2 sides, 9 on the other 2...) and it's labeled: N70005FWCHCA IBA491U01 U6390282 7B0 FoMoCo Intel 91 95 Anyone have any info??? Thanks, DAve =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 12:55:01 -0400 From: "C. Brooks" Subject: Re: low cost embedded PC's That's along the lines I was thinking. I've been playing with DAQ systems a bit and it seemed to me that a PC based architecture, some basic signal conditioning for the inputs, and a couple digital output lines. 1 output to fire the injectors (Batch fire), and 4 outputs to fire the spark plugs (2 at a time, like some OEM systems). Does that sound reasonable for a SIMPLE system? Oh yeah, the code :( Charles Brooks - -----Original Message----- From: Frederic Breitwieser To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Saturday, June 12, 1999 1:02 PM Subject: Re: low cost embedded PC's >> I ran across this page. They have some single board PC's for less than $200 >> including case and power supply. It's small, and PC based. Does anybody see >> any drawbacks to something like this? > >Well, eight A/D lines with 8-bit resolution ain't bad, neither is the >small case, and the +5V at 450ma requirement. Works for me! Of course, >for an EFI system you'd have a lot more interfacing to do.. we'd have to >buffer the sensors and create the appropriate circuits that would take >the 0-1V output of the O2 sensor (for example) and spread it over a 0-5V >range, so we can use all of the available resolution of the A/D board, >but that's not too difficult. > >its the code :) > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:55:28 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: low cost embedded PC's > a time, like some OEM systems). Does that sound reasonable for a SIMPLE > system? > > Oh yeah, the code :( Sounds like a very reasonable system. Most OEM systems are much simpler electronically than a PC type system would be, but there is nothing stopping you from doing so. Except maybe the 1 minute of counting memory in the beginning - would have to have the ECM/PC sit in "suspend" mode I'd imagine, so when you turn the key, its there, ready to go. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:03:45 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: EEC-V well, The link is up... Preliminary for now, but has the board photo and all the chip markings layed out. Let me know what you think, and as always, any and all info appreciated! http://members.tripod.com/~n5xmt/Ford/eec-v.html Thanks, DAve =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:49:37 -0500 From: Steve Gorkowski Subject: Re: low cost embedded PC's 8 - 12bit A/d converters 100,000 samples a second and had a Int. just for that task. good board for PC project . With that resolution just feed O2 in and filter a bit. Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > I ran across this page. They have some single board PC's for less than $200 > > including case and power supply. It's small, and PC based. Does anybody see > > any drawbacks to something like this? > > Well, eight A/D lines with 8-bit resolution ain't bad, neither is the > small case, and the +5V at 450ma requirement. Works for me! Of course, > for an EFI system you'd have a lot more interfacing to do.. we'd have to > buffer the sensors and create the appropriate circuits that would take > the 0-1V output of the O2 sensor (for example) and spread it over a 0-5V > range, so we can use all of the available resolution of the A/D board, > but that's not too difficult. > > its the code :) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:58:50 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Embedded PC's and Dodge Trucks > 8 - 12bit A/d converters 100,000 samples a second and had a Int. just for that > good board for PC project . With that resolution just feed O2 in and filter a Yep :) I'm busy pulling off all the Chrysler EFI crap off this spare 318 I have, since the 318 I put in there was worse than the one with the tape on the block... and of course, I'm slapping the carb on. However, I've already made a simple wiring harness from the old wiring on the truck, to the different wiring on the engine (newer sensors), with taps for op-amp buffers to something (PC maybe) to monitor everything, so I can get a feel of what the chrysler sensors actually produce as an output, based on what the engine is doing. All that "AIR" stuff was complex to eliminate - one of the ex manifolds had a "flue damper" in it. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 15:18:02 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: Embedded PC's and Dodge Trucks At 02:58 PM 6/12/99 -0400, you wrote: > >All that "AIR" stuff was complex to eliminate - one of the ex manifolds >had a "flue damper" in it. Cool! Either a Jake Brake or closed off it forced exhaust thru the intake manifold crossover to heat the carb =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 15:56:18 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Embedded PC's and Dodge Trucks > Either a Jake Brake or closed off it forced exhaust thru the intake > manifold crossover to heat the carb Well, its an OEM manifold, so I'd imagine its to heat the carb. There are 3/4" tubing that cross connects to rear of the two cast iron manifolds, which in the center of this tube, there is a welded "T" junction that goes over the driver side head/intake area to an air pump, which has two large tubes coming off the other side of the pump, which go over the water pump, underneath the motor mount and the passenger side exhaust manifold, to the back of the block where they were cut when I got the motor. I would "guess" since the motor is an 88, these two tubes that are cut go to catalytic converter(s), to inject air. However, I haven't seen the air intake for the pump, just the three hoses. Its all going away, as I don't need it in my 75 truck because there are no more emmissions testing on the vehicle. That, and the stroker I've been working on will go in "any day" now. This is yet another 318 just to keep the truck running and useful until I get things squared away on the stroker. I decided to finish the EFI before I install the stroker engine into the truck, rather than slap a carb on it and play later. Might as well do it right the first time. I do like the 88 bracketry for the accessories much better than the 75 stuff - there are two large plates, that pretty much everything bolts to, rather than individual brackets for each accessory as in the original 75 motor, and the mid 80's one I shoved in there a few months ago. The first one had a massive crack in the block which became a hole, and had oil pressure problems, and the second motor was fine until the middle of the week where I get absolutely no oil pressure, and now its making horrible scraping / clanging / clunking / smacking sounds. I almost can't wait to open it up and see if the bearings are gone, or of something larger "fell off". See, everything on this truck falls off, nothing breaks the normal way, at least so far. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 21:35:03 EDT From: ARoss10661@xxx.com Subject: Not diy_efi....how to disable a computer carb Hey all. I need help. The computer carb on my 83 Olds 98 (307) has decided to send so much fuel into the mixture that it pumps gas fumes out the tailpipe. Is there a way to disable it safely??? Any help is appreciated Al ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 21:42:19 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: Not diy_efi....how to disable a computer carb At 09:35 PM 6/12/99 -0400, you wrote: >Hey all. > >I need help. The computer carb on my 83 Olds 98 (307) has decided to send so >much fuel into the mixture that it pumps gas fumes out the tailpipe. Is >there a way to disable it safely??? Any help is appreciated Not really... it has a solenoid that controls mixture... Not sure if open richens or closed richens, but disabling it will either make it too rich or too lean. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 21:49:48 EDT From: AL8001@xxx.com Subject: Re: Not diy_efi....how to disable a computer carb In a message dated 99-06-12 21:39:42 EDT, you write: >Hey all. > >I need help. The computer carb on my 83 Olds 98 (307) has decided to send so > >much fuel into the mixture that it pumps gas fumes out the tailpipe. Is >there a way to disable it safely??? Any help is appreciated > >Al Step one: don't just dump the electronic system without finding the source of the problem. It's usually less expensive and better to repair a existing system rather than building something from scratch. Step two: Place a dwell meter on the green single wire test connector. It's located near the carb's blue connector( Shannon, did the 83 Olds still have them? It's been quite a while since I've looked at one). It should read ~ 30 * at idle, I beleive the dwell meter should be set for the 6 cyl scale. 0* dwell would indicate the ECM is forceing a rich mixture. Step three: Pull the hoses off of the purge valve. ( Black plastic, round 4 to 5 hose valve located front and center of the engine) If liquid fuel runs out, replace this valve. These fail frequently causing super rich mixtures. From what I recall, the valves were under $ 20. Harold ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 23:25:19 EDT From: ARoss10661@xxx.com Subject: Re: Not diy_efi....how to disable a computer carb In a message dated 6/12/99 8:54:51 PM Central Daylight Time, AL8001@xxx.COM writes: << Step one: don't just dump the electronic system without finding the source of the problem. It's usually less expensive and better to repair a existing system rather than building something from scratch. Step two: Place a dwell meter on the green single wire test connector. It's located near the carb's blue connector( Shannon, did the 83 Olds still have them? It's been quite a while since I've looked at one). It should read ~ 30 * at idle, I beleive the dwell meter should be set for the 6 cyl scale. 0* dwell would indicate the ECM is forceing a rich mixture. Step three: Pull the hoses off of the purge valve. ( Black plastic, round 4 to 5 hose valve located front and center of the engine) If liquid fuel runs out, replace this valve. These fail frequently causing super rich mixtures. From what I recall, the valves were under $ 20. Harold >> Harold, Thank You so much for the info. Ill try this out tomorrow and let u know what happens. Man I love this group!!! Al ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 20:50:55 -0700 From: neilaura@xxx.com Subject: Re: Not diy_efi....how to disable a computer carb At 09:35 PM 6/12/99 EDT, you wrote: >Hey all. > >I need help. The computer carb on my 83 Olds 98 (307) has decided to send so >much fuel into the mixture that it pumps gas fumes out the tailpipe. Is >there a way to disable it safely??? Any help is appreciated > >Al > As far as I remember the Olds was fitted with a feedback Qjet carb. If you are spitting raw fuel out of the tailpipe it has very little to do with the computer controlled solenoid in the carb. This solenoid has a 50% duty cyle in open loop, to give close to a 14.7 - 1 mixture. And then fine tunes the mixture in closed loop, using the O2 sensor as a guide. First things first. Is the float level right (it can be checked with the carb in place). Are the vacuum hoses on correctly (yesterday repaired a shady tree mechanics botch job. The carb vent hose was connected directly to the manifold!.). And lastly Qjets are notorious for leaking at the blanking plugs underneath (carb has to come off for this one). Neil ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 23:12:10 -0500 From: "Dan Plaskett" Subject: 61 Corvette TPI conversion This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BEB528.FFAD0140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey folks, I started working on putting my harness together for the 61 vette. I am = using a 727 out of an 88 Cutlass so I was using the ECM connector = diagram for the Corvette L98 off of the FTP site. Two questions. I = thought I understood that all 727 pinouts were the same. Is that true? = If so my connectors are different colors. What is listed on the diagram = as connector J-1 (I am assuming J1-J4 go from right to left) is blue not = yellow or gray. My J-2 is gray not red. My J-3 is white instead of = green and my J-4 is black instead of brown. Do I need to get a ECM = terminal end view for the Cutlass or can I just substitute my color = connectors and assume the pinouts are the same? Thanks for the assist. Dan Plaskett - ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BEB528.FFAD0140 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hey folks,

I started working on putting my = harness=20 together for the 61 vette.  I am using a 727 out of an 88 Cutlass = so I was=20 using the ECM connector diagram for the Corvette L98 off of the FTP = site. =20 Two questions.  I thought I understood that all 727 pinouts were = the=20 same.  Is that true?  If so my connectors are different = colors. =20 What is listed on the diagram as connector J-1 (I am assuming J1-J4 go = from=20 right to left) is blue not yellow or gray.  My J-2 is gray not = red. =20 My J-3 is white instead of green and my J-4 is black instead of = brown.  Do=20 I need to get a ECM terminal end view for the Cutlass or can I just = substitute=20 my color connectors and assume the pinouts are the same?

Thanks = for the=20 assist.

Dan Plaskett

- ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BEB528.FFAD0140-- ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #355 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".