DIY_EFI Digest Monday, June 14 1999 Volume 04 : Number 357 In this issue: Re: o2 sensor Re: o2 price? Archives Re: Promedit RE: o2 sensor Re: Archives Re: Injectors Re: 61 Corvette TPI conversion Re: Prowler V6 Re: Prowler V6 Re: Buick V-6, was Prowler V6 Re: Prowler V6 Re: Buick V-6, was Prowler V6 Re: Prowler V6 [Fwd: diy_efi_www] Re: Buick V-6, was Prowler V6 Re: Dual fuel PFI rails.... SBC into Astro To Gar Re: Dual fuel PFI rails.... ECU files Re: Dual fuel PFI rails.... Wanted: Stag MOS programmer software. Re: ECU files Diacom files wanted. Re: Prowler V6 Re: To Gar Re: Dual fuel PFI rails.... Re: To Gar Re: ECU files Re: Dual fuel PFI rails.... Re: ECU files Re: Buick V-6, was Prowler V6 See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:30:16 +1000 From: "Geffro" Subject: Re: o2 sensor > >Though you can cascade two, three, or four for more resolution if you >must. I'd offer a schematic but its been ages... I think Radio >Shack's "Electronics Experimenter" book (orange cover) has a cascaded >3914 schematic in there. >Frederic Breitwieser >Bridgeport CT 06606 Would you mind explaining this for a beginner? Cheers ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Geoff Richards mha@xxx.com My learning curve seems to start way over my head ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 18:37:22 +1000 From: "Geffro" Subject: Re: o2 price? You Nigel nigel.robertson@xxx.uk wrote >It electronics it is quite common practice to keep a common earth point for >various parts of the system and I would suggest that in auto electronics >with quite a few sensors that could be prone to noise the same is true. The >ECM on my car (ROVER MEMS) certainly has this set-up. The idea is to avoid >creating ground loops so running a ground wire, which is isolated from the >chassis ground, to the sensors as well as a signal wire prevents a ground >loop being set up around the ground wire and back through the chassis back >to the ECM common ground. > I'm a little lost here Where would a ground wire go if it is isolated from the chassis ground? ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Geoff Richards mha@xxx.com My learning curve seems to start way over my head ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 20:21:00 +1000 From: "Geffro" Subject: Archives Found this in the archives Gonna post a list some where of what it takes to actually burn proms. What I'd like to gather is the names of equipment folks already have been using, what they like-dislike about it price paid, and where purchased. So burning programs/erasers/prom sources (used). All of this is for beginner, just basic stuff.ThanksBruce Did this ever happen ? Cheers ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Geoff Richards mha@xxx.com My learning curve seems to start way over my head ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:38:31 +0200 From: Carsten Meyer Subject: Re: Promedit >I've been playing with Promedit for the last half hour or so, and I have a >couple questions. > >What is the significance of the different colors in the data? >How do you terminate the program? >How do you get the .ECU files? Are they converted from the S19 file you get >when you spit out the data from the PROM? > >Charles Brooks Charles, I have not written the program, so I can only assume what display colors mean. 255 = $FF values are highlighted for a unknown reason white: table entries defined in .ECU file cyan: any other bytes Making an .ECU file, which is different for the most different ECMs (an ECU for a 1227730 does not work for the 1227747), is quite a complicated process. I made an .ECU filefor the 7730 ECM (to be found at http://pweb.de.uu.net/pr-meyer.h) by browsing the disassembly of a 68HC11 ECM PROM from diy_efis ftp site. You have to know where all the tables and constants sit and so on. Mit freundlichen Gruessen Carsten Meyer, Redaktion c't - ------------------------------------------------------------------ Carsten R. Meyer, editorial staff Tel: +49 (0)511 53 52-300 c't magazin fuer computertechnik Fax: +49 (0)511 53 52-417 Verlag Heinz Heise GmbH & Co KG EMail: cm@xxx.de Helstorfer Str. 7 private EMail: stinkbovist@xxx.net 30625 Hannover Germany http://www.heise.de/ct/Redaktion/cm/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------ Dieser Satz kein Verb. /"\ \ / X ASCII Ribbon Campaign -- Against HTML Mail / \ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 13:05:25 +0100 From: "Robertson, Nigel" Subject: RE: o2 sensor Geoff, One LM3914 bargraph driver set up to measure 1 volt. 10 LEDs each LED represents 1/10 = 0.1 volts. If you cascade two LM3914 devices and set it up to measure 1 volt you will have 20 LEDs therefore each LED represents 1/20 = 0.05 volts. Hence better resolution. Get hold of a copy of the data sheet of the LM3914 off the web. It shows you how to connect it up in various ways. Nigel R > -----Original Message----- > From: Geffro [SMTP:geoffsue@xxx.au] > Sent: 14 June 1999 10:30 > To: diy_efi > Subject: Re: o2 sensor > > > > > > >Though you can cascade two, three, or four for more resolution if you > >must. I'd offer a schematic but its been ages... I think Radio > >Shack's "Electronics Experimenter" book (orange cover) has a cascaded > >3914 schematic in there. > > >Frederic Breitwieser > >Bridgeport CT 06606 > > Would you mind explaining this for a beginner? > Cheers > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > Geoff Richards > mha@xxx.com > My learning curve seems to start way over my head > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:13:07 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Archives Geffro wrote: > > Found this in the archives > > Gonna post a list some where of what it takes to actually burn proms. > All of this is for beginner, just basic stuff.ThanksBruce > > Did this ever happen ? > Cheers > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > Geoff Richards > mha@xxx.com > My learning curve seems to start way over my head > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I don't remember if the basic instructions were ever posted, but the prom burning part seems pretty basic to me. I picked out an inexpensive burner that a couple folks had mentioned, and sent off some money. Software came with the burner, one floppy disk, and copied over directly to the hard drive. Looking back, I'd tell myself to get something with more features. They wouldn't really be necessary, but they'd be nice for working with code and various chips. After I got the burner and read a few proms, I wanted to change some stuff. Well, that required erasing the chips first, which I was unable to do. Search for the title "blankety blank" and you'll find some helpful suggestions about making and buying an eraser. I bought mine. And depending on which ECM you are using, you'll need an adapter to read the prom that's installed in the memcal. You can make one from scratch, or there is a digi-key part no in the archives for a connector that can be modified to work. In summary, you'll need an eprom burner, and an eraser, (a computer, of course), an adapter (ecm dependent) and a prom. This will start you down the road to reading and burning proms. And reading and burning proms is amazingly easy. You'll want to read the instructions that come with your burner, and give yourself some time to get familiar with the tools. The questions you should answer first are what ECM am I going to work with (what car is it in), and what's the final goal. There's a huge amount of information that's related to efi. Without some focus, it's pretty hard to decide what you need and what you can ignore. Trust me on this. Oh, yeah, there was a mini list of the popular eprom burners posted by Bruce. It may be pretty short. Sorry, I can't remember the subject. Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 08:55:15 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Injectors Hi Clive, Great ideas! Will examine it more closely.... ALSO, why batch, why not sequential.... When gettin in the OVER 1,000 hp range, batch seems to me to be a bit dangerous... Thanks, Todd.... - -------- Clive Apps Techno-Logicals 416 510 0020 wrote: > > > > >>> What computer could I use for multiple(dual) port injector setup like > > > >>> that? > > > >> > > > > > > The 1990 to 1995 ZR1 Corvette computer can control 16 injectors. > > if this could be tricked into a 4 bank systemn by twaeking the code > you could have > > bank 1 idle & low speed running > bank 2 high speed & power running > bank 3 water injection system > bank 4 alternate fuel (alcohol / nitrometh) system and boost enrichment > > I can see a 50 psi boost 4 cly that idels like a kitten and makes > 1000 hp here > or a batch fired v8 that makes 2500 hp and can be used for a grocery getter > > Clive ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:58:53 -0800 From: Ludis Langens Subject: Re: 61 Corvette TPI conversion Dan Plaskett wrote: > I am > using a 727 out of an 88 Cutlass so I was using the ECM connector > diagram for the Corvette L98 off of the FTP site. > [...] > If so my connectors are different colors. > [...] > Do I need to get a ECM > terminal end view for the Cutlass or can I just substitute my color > connectors and assume the pinouts are the same? The different color connectors are keyed different and/or implement a different set of harness connections. If you look at your ECM, you'll notice that each of the four connectors is keyed different. Looking at the plugs, not all of the 22 pins will have wire connections - some will have a rubber plug, while others don't even have a hole in the plastic where a wire could terminate. Some (all?) of the four connectors have multiple versions of plugs, each with a different set of blocked holes. Each variation uses a different color. You'll need to check your application to decide which variation(s) you need to use. (Hmmm, I wonder if GM has a generic service plug which allows access to all of the 22 pins.) - -- Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:32:32 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Prowler V6 Sound like an AWESOME setup MAN! Glad ya figured it out! What led ya to throwin a forged unit in your F.I. turbo rig? Just wonderin.... Todd.... - ---------- Tom Sharpe wrote: > > Ross Corrigan wrote: > > > performance wise, what difference specifically can one expect from a forged > > over a cast crank?(yeah I know the forged is stronger etc.. but any > > quantitative gain?) > > My Turbo 350 Chevy w/ 12+ lbs boost (<5k rpm) died with 2 cast cranks, lived > with a forged one. It destroyed the bearings - one looked like someone heated > the bearings until soft and pushed the crank in. spread the bearing like > putty. TomSPS back from vacation ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:57:12 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Prowler V6 What I meant was that if you cal'd how many 1/4 runs it would take, at say 15 seconds each, to make up 29 minutes of vehicle/engine abuse, you'd have to make about 116 1/4 runs! That's just to make up 29 minutes of hard 1/4 drag abuse.... LATER! Todd.... - --------- Shannen Durphey wrote: > > Todd....!! wrote: > > > > Maybe 29 minutes isn't a long time when daily driving the sucker, but 29 > > minutes at a quarter mile at a time is a LIFETIME! ey? > > > > LATER! > > > > Todd.... > If it took me 29 minutes to complete the quarter, while running at a > steady 10 grand, my pride and self respect would force me to give up > running on the drums and at least put rims on the car. ; ) > Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:05:57 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Buick V-6, was Prowler V6 I met Lawrence several times out at the strip as well as out on the street at the car get togethers, he had his turbo car with his company's logo plastered all over it... Then to top it all off, one evening, good ol Gene Deputy of, you guessed it, Texas Turbo, pulled up in his older single turbo Stang...(they were only in the 9 second range back then)... They both ran off to do a comparison 'street dyno test' 'tween their two street bruisers.... Noone knows who won that battle.... Conley's machines seem to hold together a bit longer than the good ol Texas Turbo setups... I luv em both!! They both have awesome companies, and both of em try n help their clients to the best of their ability, pending their credit apps and all, of course... Conley seems to speak more freely about how to tweak your own cars, as well as about how he tweaks his! Whereas Texas Turbo owner Gene, tends to be VERY quiet and reluctant/hesitant to answer ANY technical questions about his car OR how to supe my/our cars... Just thought ya'll'd enjoy a tidbit of the happenings of a MAJOR F.I. Turbo player who's now in the 7's! with a car that could most likely be driven across the US at a decent MPG as well! LATER! Todd.... - --------- Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > > Your calc is off... Lawrence Conley had over 1100 HP in TWEAKED and was > > running 7.80's @ 178 MPH > > Yes, using stage II parts, which is much better than OEM anything :) > Maaaaaaajor difference, even though its still very, very impressive. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 09:54:04 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Prowler V6 Thanks for that insight to the delta 'tween cast and forged cranks in all of the accompanying apps! Have learned a lot... Have learned to use the Fluiddamper for my forged 440 app, will save it's life, if I hear ya correctly! As well as the BLOCKS' and Bearings' lives as well!! LATER! Todd...!! Greg Hermann wrote: > > > The reason for using a forged crank as compared to a cast one is > >actually more a matter of "flexability." with a cast crank the material > >isn't as flexable as the forged counterpart. > > Actually-- > > Steel has a significantly high modulus of elasticity than cast iron, both > in tension and in shear. > Which means that a steel crank is, in fact, quite a bit STIFFER than a cast > one. -It does NOT flex as much!-- The steel is, however, much more DUCTILE > than cast iron, even if compared to so-called "ductile" (or nodular) cast > iron. "Ductile" and "brittle" are pretty much antonyms in this context. > This means that a steel part will deform and "tear" far more than an iron > one will when it actually fails, even though it takes a much higher level > of stress to produce a failure in a steel part. > > A steel part also has FAR greater resistance to the initiation of cracks > when subjected to alternating tensile and compressive stresses than an > iron part does. In fact--steel has a well defined "endurance limit" of > stress under fatigue failure inducing alternating stress conditions, and > cast iron does not. > > A cast part usually will usually absorb vibrations far better than a steel > one will--which makes the need for more sophisticated, expensive vibration > dampers on cast production cranks less pressing than it is on forged steel > cranks. Witness the fact that if you tap a cast crank with a hammer, it > gives a clunk sound, while a forged crank will ring like a bell. > > Because a steel crank is actually much stiffer than a cast crank, your > blocks would probably stand up to significantly more HP if you ran forged > steel cranks in them---because a stiffer crank would not impose nearly as > much strain (deflection) onto the bearing webs! (In a case like the block > failures you are getting, strain (imposed deflection) is the CAUSE of the > stress, not the other way around!) Of course, you would be wise to run a > Fluidampr on a forged crank in this application because of a forged crank's > decreased capacity to damp out (absorb) torsional vibrations compared to a > cast crank. > > Regards, Greg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:09:28 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Buick V-6, was Prowler V6 Hey Fred, I was gonna say, I thought ya didn't have to wind a turbo up to get the power, as ya do with a NA engine... I plan on spinnin my B/RB turbo F.I. engine to 5,500 MAX, will design it with this in mind as well...(Cam, intake, turbo size, injector size, fuel delivery, etc... BTW, what cam are ya runnin in your turbo f.i. b.b. Mopar? What are all the specs of it, is the overlap the recommended 114? or did ya do somethin different than what we're 'supposed' to when it comes to the cam specs? And how much boost did ya say your goal was to attain? Just wonderin.... LATER! Todd.... Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > > of hp and wanting any kind of longevity, is naturally gonna use a stage > > II setup. > > Which I didn't, I had nice new wiseco pistons, and everything else was > merely "machined" meaning balancing, blueprinting, shotpeening, after > being checked out with the old coil of course. > > Had I gone stage II, I'm confident the motor would have lasted. > > >Considering a 4.1 litre block is about the weakest block buick > > makes, or.. made. > > Ya think? I thought it was a decent block. Anyhoo, I have finished a > second one but not going to rev the shit out of it like we did on the > test motor. > > > then. :^) Besides, I'm still waitin for someone to bring me a mopar > > motor and let me hook MY tach to it. :) > > When my truck's done, you can hook your tach to it. But you won't see > more than 4000 RPM :) Just a lot of boost. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:13:46 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Prowler V6 Thanks for the experience! Glad to know! LATER! Todd....! - ------- Programmer wrote: > > Todd, > > Actually have a set of them--the box end is offset every other 12 point with > the metric equivalent. A 13-1/2, 12-7/16, etc...they actually aren't that > bad a deal--and I've never broken them. They also have socket sets. I don't > use them at the shop--but they work great at home. > > Lyndon IPTECH > -----Original Message----- > From: Todd....!! > To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> > Date: Thursday, June 03, 1999 1:34 PM > Subject: Re: Prowler V6 > > >Speakin of different size wrenches, anyone here ever heard of or used a > >set a tools known as Met-Wrench? > > > >The commercial makes them out to be some sorta SUPER wrenches, they > >don't look like too high quality of metal was used to make em, to me > >anyways... > > > >Anyone? > > > >LATER! > > > >Todd.... > > > > > > > >G. Scott Ponton wrote: > >> > >> There are four "standards" for fasteners. They relate to the thread pitch > >> more than anything although there are several different "head" sizes. > Mostly > >> the Japanese/asian use 10, 12, 14, 17, 21, & 32. The europeon use 10, 13, > >> 14, 17, 19, 21 and various larger sizes. Other than the English. They > used > >> to use what was called a Whitworth standard. These are the 3/8 bolts with > >> the "15mm" heads. Actually they are 19/32. They also used 23/32 (i think > it > >> was.) I haven't seen those wrenches since my tools were stolen. You used > to > >> get them in every Craftman set up until about 1975. You will also notice > >> that most, nearly all, of the English bolts are a "fine" thread pitch. It > >> isn't quite the same as SAE fine as the radius of the thread root is > >> different and although you can use one on the other they ussually are a > very > >> tight fit and sometimes destroy the fasteners. Then of course you have > SAE > >> standard inch sizes and the famous SAE standard metric sizes. Other than > the > >> 15mm the 16 and 18 are so close to SAE 5/8 and 11/16 that many times you > can > >> use these sizes to remove them. Maybe had something to do with it at the > >> start. > >> > >> Just my .02$ > >> > >> Scott > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:36:52 -0500 From: steve ravet Subject: [Fwd: diy_efi_www] Had a question about starting an IRC channel for diy_efi or gmecm. Any interest? - --steve > > The reason I ask, is that there is an official Ford EEC presence on > Undernet that I have found extremely helpful. Maybe someone should > consider hanging out a shingle.... > > ---------- original message ----------------- > > No official presence. Don't know if there's any unnofficial one or not, > but I haven't heard of it. Good question though. > > --steve > > > > > Do any of the gm-ecm or diy-efi crowd maintain a presence on IRC? If so, > what networks and channels? > - -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@xxx.com Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. www.arm.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:26:32 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Buick V-6, was Prowler V6 Todd, > I was gonna say, I thought ya didn't have to wind a turbo up to get the > power, as ya do with a NA engine... Yes and no. depends on your turbo size, cam duration, and overall goals. If you have huge turbos, then you have to rev the engine to get enough airflow to get boost back into the intake. The buick setup was this way - we had to rev the hell out of it to get the high boost we desired, which really doesn't promote reliability. The 383 stroker deal is different - use the bottom end torque curve with additional boost, 10lbs max, at lower (<4000) rpms thus increasing engine longetivity. > BTW, what cam are ya runnin in your turbo f.i. b.b. Mopar? Using a 440 motorhome cam. Least radical cam on the planet, practically no overlap (110) and it churns around nicely. > And how much boost did ya say your goal was to attain? 10lbs. At 4200 RPM, the test motor maxed out the two turbos, which spun at full speed. - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport CT 06606 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:43:29 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Dual fuel PFI rails.... ntisdale wrote: > Was just thinking a dual fuel setup, via various methods. Dual injectors > would be ideal, but would be a lot of work which I'm not equipped to do > (maybe now's the time to learn....). Proposed vehicle is 4.3l Syclone. Making an additional fuel rail is really not that complex. The key is making it simple enough to machine out using fairly common tools. What I would recommend is getting some 3/4" rectangular bar stock, and have a machine shop bore the length of it, thus allowing fuel to go through the lenth of the bar. Then, being square, you can place it flat on your drill press, and mill out injector holes. The injector holes need to be slightly smaller than the O-ring that's on the injector, and you push the injector/O-ring into the fuel rail. This is the easiest way. I used aluminum round hollow stock, and brazed on two rectangular "pads" to achieve the flat surface necessary for the injector tops, just because I had scraps left over from suspension parts I made for my mid-engined car. Required more effort, but they look nice :) Also, threading the inside ends of the bar or rod stock is a good idea, because then you can put on AN fittings, and interconnect the hoses that way, so you have one large fuel rail. - -- Frederic Breitwieser Bridgeport CT 06606 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 15:19:44 -0400 From: "C. Brooks" Subject: SBC into Astro Will everyone who wanted the swap info please send me an e-mail off list? I accidentally deleted one of you guys and I don't want to skip over you :) Charles Brooks ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:49:00 -0500 From: "Thomas W. Sharpe" Subject: To Gar Retain Until: 07/14/99 Retention Category: G90 - Information and Reports FYI look at these HC11s: HC11 Handyboard -- http://home.hkstar.com/~huip/ HC11 package -- http://www.axman.com/specials.htm and http://www.nmia.com/tecny/mc200.htm The HC12 is 16 bit and they have C compilers and BDMs available. Look at these: http://www.axman.com/cme12b32.htm http://www.nwlink.com/~kevinro/bdm.html http://www.interlog.com/~techart/myfiles/ad912.html http://www.elektronikladen.de/en_hc12compact.html http://www.steroidmicros.com/index.html I think the tiger has real possibilities also. Basic Tiger -- http://www.wilke-technology.com/ Sorry for the bandwidth but I didn't have Gar's address at work. TWS ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:39:29 -0400 From: "SPECTRO COATING CORP." Subject: Re: Dual fuel PFI rails.... > Making an additional fuel rail is really not that complex. The key is > making it simple enough to machine out using fairly common tools. > > What I would recommend is getting some 3/4" rectangular bar stock, and > have a machine shop bore the length of it, thus allowing fuel to go > through the lenth of the bar. Then, being square, you can place it > flat on your drill press, and mill out injector holes. The injector > holes need to be slightly smaller than the O-ring that's on the > injector, and you push the injector/O-ring into the fuel rail. This > is the easiest way. > Wouldn't it be easier just to buy the fuel rail stock - its not that expensive and it sure beats paying some one to drill the length of the bar stock? (which would be a PITA unless you were set up for it) I bought mine from Rob at force fuel injection and its not that expensive $9.00/ft i think Just my $.02 Jason ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 17:08:51 -0400 From: "C. Brooks" Subject: ECU files Can someone explain the format for .ECU files? I've looked at them and it I don't know what the columns after the hex address represent. I believe that at least two of the first 5 columns represent the map size, and I think the column preceding the description is a multiplier for the values in the map. Is that right? Does anybody have a "Guide to .ECU Files"? Charles Brooks ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 17:20:22 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Dual fuel PFI rails.... > I bought mine from Rob at force fuel injection and its not that expensive > $9.00/ft i think This is true Jason... the local shop owed me a favor, so they bored for free :) But buying fuel rail stock is definately the way to go, or if oyu need a larger diameter, suspension threaded tubing. Either is fine. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:36:00 +0100 From: Chris Wilson Subject: Wanted: Stag MOS programmer software. I have bought an obsolete Stag PP39 programmer, with no software. Stag UK were remarkably unhelpful, and wanted to sell me a new machine :-) Does anyone have the DOS software to connect by serial port to a PC, and utilise all its functions? Or even a set of instructions? Thanks a lot. Ideas of where to ask for the software would be appreciated, too. Thanks. - -- Best Regards, Chris Wilson. http://www.maximum-bhp.u-net.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:50:07 -0500 From: steve ravet Subject: Re: ECU files If you get the promedit .zip file there should be a readme file in there. Each line describes the layout of a data table. the format of the line depends on whether the table is zero, one, two, or three dimensional. - --steve "C. Brooks" wrote: > > Can someone explain the format for .ECU files? I've looked at them and it I > don't know what the columns after the hex address represent. I believe that > at least two of the first 5 columns represent the map size, and I think the > column preceding the description is a multiplier for the values in the map. > Is that right? > > Does anybody have a "Guide to .ECU Files"? > > Charles Brooks - -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@xxx.com Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. www.arm.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 09:07:02 +1000 From: Richard Wakeling Subject: Diacom files wanted. Hi all, And thinking of you Bruce. Can someone e-mail me some Diacom GDF files of a late GM vehicle that uses MAF. I need both NA and FI. I am trying to familiarize my self with what these graphs look like compared with a MAP system. What is the calibration (GPS or LV8) used for MAF in the 8192 data string. I am using Diacom Version 2.85. Does any one know if there is a Diacom version for the Australian V6 PCM ECCO Holden commodores? Almost forgot please can you give the VIN's with the GDF files as it saves enormous time. Cheers and thanks in advance Richard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 17:19:00 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Prowler V6 > >Have learned to use the Fluiddamper for my forged 440 app, will save >it's life, if I hear ya correctly! As well as the BLOCKS' and Bearings' >lives as well!! > Youg got it right. There is a good reason why folks like Cummins use fluidamprs stock! Greg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:41:58 -0700 From: garfield@xxx.com (Gar Willis) Subject: Re: To Gar On Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:49:00 -0500, "Thomas W. Sharpe" wrote: >I think the tiger has real possibilities also. >Basic Tiger -- http://www.wilke-technology.com/ > >Sorry for the bandwidth but I didn't have Gar's address at work. Ehhh, huh? I believe my good man, that you have confused me with someone else interested in HC11s and such? Otherwise, I'm at a loss as to why/what these are being presented to me for. I DO find them kinda interesting, but not peculiarly so to the point of them being sent to me privately or alone. Whadideye miss here? Gar ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 17:53:00 -0500 From: dave.williams@xxx.us (Dave Williams) Subject: Re: Dual fuel PFI rails.... - -> How about sfi w/ small injectors for idle/cruse and add big throttle - -> body injection for boost/WOT??? brain food TWS I'd like to do that too. Unfortunately it's hard to find injectors much smaller than 14#. For an average V8 those would be sufficient for most street driving. If I could get some injectors in the 3# to 5# range, the pulsewidth would be wide enough at cruise for me to take advantage of what limited atomization is available from Bendix injectors. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 17:16:28 -0700 From: garfield@xxx.com (Gar Willis) Subject: Re: To Gar On Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:41:58 -0700, garfield@xxx.com (Gar Willis) wrote: >On Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:49:00 -0500, "Thomas W. Sharpe" >wrote: > >>I think the tiger has real possibilities also. >>Basic Tiger -- http://www.wilke-technology.com/ >> >>Sorry for the bandwidth but I didn't have Gar's address at work. > >Ehhh, huh? I believe my good man, that you have confused me with someone >else interested in HC11s and such? > >Otherwise, I'm at a loss as to why/what these are being presented to me >for. I DO find them kinda interesting, but not peculiarly so to the >point of them being sent to me privately or alone. > >Whadideye miss here? OH BOY, am I dense, eh? It suddenly dawned on me. Mebe Tom's wanting to pass along these things because they might provide a development environment for guys that wanna build their own instrumentation around an EGOR or ION module? Have I gotten it yet, Tom? If not, hit me again with the instructional 2X4 please. Garputz P.S. If that's the case, all's I can tellya at this point is that the plans AirSIG's gonna provide WILL be PIC-based, and be simple enough to NOT include any fancy display panelsNsuch. But don't let that stop ya. The whole purpose of the "plans" is to provide a "basic reference design" for guys that aren't up to speed enough yet to pull the whole thing off themselves, OR those not ready to adopt something even more powerful, and go their merry way. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:08:31 -0400 From: "C. Brooks" Subject: Re: ECU files Thanks Steve, I found it :) OK, assuming I'm able to identify a series of blocks as a table (Big assumption :) How do I find out what type of table it is? i.e. VE fuel, acceleration enrichment, spark advance etc... ? It looks like the data points in Promedit are scaled 0-255, is that for all tables or do some tables use a different scale? Would be totally wrong to assume that all the data points consist of three places? i.e. 001-255 (Or whatever the scale is) Charles Brooks - -----Original Message----- From: steve ravet To: diy_efi@xxx.edu> Date: Monday, June 14, 1999 9:45 PM Subject: Re: ECU files >If you get the promedit .zip file there should be a readme file in >there. Each line describes the layout of a data table. the format of >the line depends on whether the table is zero, one, two, or three >dimensional. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:02:05 -0400 From: Barry Tisdale Subject: Re: Dual fuel PFI rails.... Something got lost in translation here, I think. (BTW, was using my wife's account for the original message - I'm back home again). DUAL fuel; I'd need *two* parallel holes drilled the length of the bar. Cross-drilling the two longitidinal holes where the injectors will be placed, plugging the access opening to the outside of the rail. This results in two parallel holes, connected by cross-holes where the injectors will go. Drill the injector feeds into this hole, between the long parallel holes, so's one injector can be fed by either of the two 'logs'. One log would carry pump gas, the other, the fuel of your choice, probably avgas. Two separate circuits, tanks, pumps, regualtors, etc. It would take about 0.2 sec for the fuel transition to occur; the volume of 'old' fuel to be flushed out of the common volume before the injector saw 'new' fuel. Only problem is the drilling of two parallel holes in, say, a 1" x 3/4" bar, about 9" long - say, 5/16" holes & cross-drillings. Is this do-able?? Assembling out of tubing & welding all the fittings would be tedious, at best, and surely beyond my skills. If I had the 9" bars drilled, I could probably take it from there. Technically, any comments? Surely, this isn't the first time anyone has thought of this; anybody done something similar? Probably ideal is a manifold w/ 2 injectors per intake port, but this is *really* beyond my capabilities. Sincere thanks for any feedback - Barry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:23:04 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: ECU files At 09:08 PM 6/14/99 -0400, you wrote: >Thanks Steve, I found it :) > >OK, assuming I'm able to identify a series of blocks as a table (Big >assumption :) How do I find out what type of table it is? i.e. VE fuel, >acceleration enrichment, spark advance etc... ? > Usually by trial and error... modify a table and try it, monitor it with Diacom or similar and see what changed. >It looks like the data points in Promedit are scaled 0-255, is that for all >tables or do some tables use a different scale? Would be totally wrong to >assume that all the data points consist of three places? i.e. 001-255 (Or >whatever the scale is) All values in the chip (raw) go 0-255 (00-FF hex). some are scaled to be - -127 to +127... very few actually mean what the number is raw in the chip ie: a timing value in the chip may be AC hex, but would mean 35 in actual timing degrees... Each table has a formula associated with it, and each ECM/PCM and cal may have different formulas for the same type of table. Best bet is look at the .ecu file that comes with promedit and see how that chip is laid out... look at the tables, and look at them in the raw chip image. Most have a pattern that is recognizable. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:14:10 +0000 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Buick V-6, was Prowler V6 That's all VERY INTERESTING! Thanks for the info! One last tidbit I need,however, if'n ya don't mind? What make, model, spec of turbo and turbine did ya use? And where'd ya get it and fer how much?? Theselil details are what I'm interested in as well as the performance of such said items!! I was told that even if I ran TWIN t-1's that they wouldn't be enough for the 440! Whatcha think? (remember, I'll be turnin 5,500 MAX rpm so that's the limit of the flow, with maybe MAX 15 lb.s boost, naybe leave a tad bit room for more at a later date, all this WITH a BIG OL intercooler or two as well!) And ALL on from regular to 115 octane depending on the boost used.... Thanks bunches! Todd....!! - ---------------------------- Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > Todd, > > > I was gonna say, I thought ya didn't have to wind a turbo up to get the > > power, as ya do with a NA engine... > > Yes and no. depends on your turbo size, cam duration, and overall > goals. If you have huge turbos, then you have to rev the engine to > get enough airflow to get boost back into the intake. The buick setup > was this way - we had to rev the hell out of it to get the high boost > we desired, which really doesn't promote reliability. > > The 383 stroker deal is different - use the bottom end torque curve > with additional boost, 10lbs max, at lower (<4000) rpms thus > increasing engine longetivity. > > > BTW, what cam are ya runnin in your turbo f.i. b.b. Mopar? > > Using a 440 motorhome cam. Least radical cam on the planet, > practically no overlap (110) and it churns around nicely. > > > And how much boost did ya say your goal was to attain? > > 10lbs. At 4200 RPM, the test motor maxed out the two turbos, which > spun at full speed. > > -- > > Frederic Breitwieser > Bridgeport CT 06606 > > 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental > 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy > 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos > 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #357 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".