DIY_EFI Digest Wednesday, June 16 1999 Volume 04 : Number 360 In this issue: IRC & Undernet - I think I am interested Re: ECU files Re: Dual fuel PFI rails.... Will Chevy Mount to GMTH425 Toronado/Eldorado Transaxle? Re: Will Chevy Mount to GMTH425 Toronado/Eldorado Transaxle? Re: Prowler V6 Re: Buick V-6, was Prowler V6 Re: Buick V-6, was Prowler V6 Re: Buick V-6, was Prowler V6 Re: Subject: Not diy_efi....how to disable a computer carb Re: Subject: Not diy_efi....how to disable a computer carb Re: Buick V-6, was Prowler V6 Re: Buick V-6, was Prowler V6 Re: Dual fuel PFI rails LCD thing Re: Will Chevy Mount to GMTH425 Toronado/Eldorado Transaxle? Re: Buick V-6, was Prowler V6 Re: Will Chevy Mount to GMTH425 Toronado/Eldorado Transaxle? DIY-EFI References Re: Will Chevy Mount to GMTH425 Toronado/Eldorado Transaxle? Re: Will Chevy Mount to GMTH425 Toronado/Eldorado Transaxle? Re: Prowler V6 Looking for a webpage about Buick GNXs Re: Fw: Any Jeep owners? 730/727 ecu file Re: Looking for a webpage about Buick GNXs Re: Torque Converters Re: Dual fuel PFI rails.... Re: Will Chevy Mount to GMTH425 Toronado/Eldorado Transaxle? Re: Locating maps in an ECU Re: Buick V-6, was Prowler V6 Re: Looking for a webpage about Buick GNXs Re: Combustion Pressure Sensor - revisited Re: Will Chevy Mount to GMTH425 Toronado/Eldorado Transaxle? Re: Will Chevy Mount to GMTH425 Toronado/Eldorado Transaxle? Re: Will Chevy Mount to GMTH425 Toronado/Eldorado Transaxle? Re: Dual fuel PFI rails.... See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:50:27 -0400 From: "Knowlden and/or Eller" Subject: IRC & Undernet - I think I am interested Please excuse my ignorance, what is IRC (interactive something chat?) and the undernet? Bob Knowlden - -----Original Message----- From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu [mailto:owner-diy_efi@xxx.edu]On Behalf Of Geffro Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 7:35 AM To: diy_efi@xxx.edu Subject: Re: [Fwd: diy_efi_www] Steve Steve.Ravet@xxx.com wrote Had a question about starting an IRC channel for diy_efi or gmecm. Any >interest? > Was gonna suggest that myself the other day but didn't cause I only got questions :) BUT I would LOVE to see it happen Cheers Geoff Richards ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:21:39 -0400 From: Ken Kelly Subject: Re: ECU files I missed a few days on the list, just saw this thread. While the statement about tables being single byte values is generally true, The newer PCM's do have a few tables that are integer, not byte. In the 8051 (94-95 LT1) the MAF calibration table is integer. Ken Charles Brooks wrote: > > Thanks for the info Dave. I'm going to try to import the PROM image into Excel and plot the whole thing. Hopefully I'll see at least some of the tables as repeating shapes. Come to think of it, CarPROM screen shots look kind of like that. The Arizona Speed and Marine site has a couple screen shots of CarPROM interpretations of PROM images. It looks like a simple graph of the entire PROM image. Does anybody on the list have CarPROM? Is that how it works? > > Charles Brooks > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: "David A. Cooley" > Reply-To: diy_efi@xxx.edu > Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:23:04 -0400 > > >At 09:08 PM 6/14/99 -0400, you wrote: > >Thanks Steve, I found it :) > > > >OK, assuming I'm able to identify a series of blocks as a table (Big > >assumption :) How do I find out what type of table it is? i.e. VE fuel, > >acceleration enrichment, spark advance etc... ? > > > > Usually by trial and error... modify a table and try it, monitor it with > Diacom or similar and see what changed. > > >It looks like the data points in Promedit are scaled 0-255, is that for all > >tables or do some tables use a different scale? Would be totally wrong to > >assume that all the data points consist of three places? i.e. 001-255 (Or > >whatever the scale is) > > All values in the chip (raw) go 0-255 (00-FF hex). some are scaled to be > -127 to +127... very few actually mean what the number is raw in the chip > ie: a timing value in the chip may be AC hex, but would mean 35 in actual > timing degrees... Each table has a formula associated with it, and each > ECM/PCM and cal may have different formulas for the same type of table. > Best bet is look at the .ecu file that comes with promedit and see how that > chip is laid out... look at the tables, and look at them in the raw chip > image. Most have a pattern that is recognizable. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 15:07:28 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" Subject: Re: Dual fuel PFI rails.... You will probably have to farm it out to a shop that specializes in rifle drilling. Drills tend to walk around a bit. When you are don, you will still end up mixing fuels. I think it would be a lot easier to do your fuel switching at the inlet and outlet to the rail. Gary Derian > > Question comes down to: can two parallel holes of 5/16" dia. be drilled in a 1" x 3/4" block, 9" long? Guess I just need to try it; Al stock available locally, I have 9" metal lathe, just need a *long* 5/16" drill. Guess the question *really* is, can *I* do it; probably very do-able by a pro! > > Thanks - Barry ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:40:49 -0700 From: "Brent W" Subject: Will Chevy Mount to GMTH425 Toronado/Eldorado Transaxle? I have a question relative to my next project. I am going to be building a custom car with a mid/rear engine. I am planning to use the GM TurboHydromatic 425 automatic transmission/transaxle as used in the 1966-75 Oldsmobile Toronado and the 1967-1980 Cadillac Eldorado. My question is whether a Chevy small block, or Chevy big block, or a Cadillac NorthStar engine will bolt up to this transmission bellhousing. I am also wonder if the Oldsmobile bellhousing is the same bolt pattern as the Cadillac? Are these two completely interchangeable in all aspects? Does anyone know if the new Cadillac NorthStar engine has the same mounting pattern as the older Cadillac GMTH 425 transaxle allowing these two to be mated together? Or alternatively, will the Cadillac NorthStar engine mount to the Cadillac transaxle that was used in the 1981-1984 Cadillac Eldorado that was not the transverse mounted engine arrangement but was the engine in front of the transaxle with the automatic transmission behind the transaxle? If you know anything about this subject, please contact me directly off-list. I am wanting to build a Chevy big block, or a Chevy small block, or maybe a Cadillac NorthStar engine to use with the GMTH 425 transaxle if they will mount correctly. Thanks to all, Brent Wiscombe bwiscombe@xxx.com Mesa, AZ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:50:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Davies Subject: Re: Will Chevy Mount to GMTH425 Toronado/Eldorado Transaxle? On Tue, 15 Jun 1999, Brent W wrote: > I have a question relative to my next project. > > I am going to be building a custom car with a mid/rear engine. I am planning > to use the GM TurboHydromatic 425 automatic transmission/transaxle as used > in the 1966-75 Oldsmobile Toronado and the 1967-1980 Cadillac Eldorado. > > My question is whether a Chevy small block, or Chevy big block, or a > Cadillac NorthStar engine will bolt up to this transmission bellhousing. I The Chevy will fit with a simple, 1/4 inch spacer plate available everywhere. Dont know about the Northstar. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:25:34 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Prowler V6 Didn't know Cummins used Fluidamprs for their apps! That's GREAT to know as well! Thanks for the info! LATER! Todd....!! - ---------- Greg Hermann wrote: > > > > >Have learned to use the Fluiddamper for my forged 440 app, will save > >it's life, if I hear ya correctly! As well as the BLOCKS' and Bearings' > >lives as well!! > > > Youg got it right. There is a good reason why folks like Cummins use > fluidamprs stock! > > Greg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:31:43 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Buick V-6, was Prowler V6 I hear ya mang! I already have more than my bogus 295/50's can handle, may have to mini tub soon! Or at least move the leafs in for tire clearance.... Don't wanna HAVE to fully tub it, it IS a Superbee ya know... Some people would see that as sacriledge or somethin, even if it WAS only a 383 auto originally... Am definitely runnin air-air intercooler(s)... Will have plenty of fuel for 1,000+ hp.... Thanks for the info and advice! LATER! Todd....!! - ---------- ECMnut@xxx.com wrote: > > In a message dated 6/14/99 9:28:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, atc347@xxx.net > writes: > > > I was told that even if I ran TWIN t-1's that they wouldn't be enough > > for the 440! > > Twin T1's ... now were talkin phone lines?. Is this a virtual 440? > Just kidding. You're looking at a turbo that can feed 220 cubes > (if two are used) to 5500 rpm? That should be easy. The Buicks > were 231 cubes. You could prolly find OEM Buick turbos > on the cheap or ?.. As F.B. stated before, high RPM is not > a prerequisite for big power with a decently matched turbo setup. > Make sure you have the fuel delivery requirements covered, > and decent intercooling after the comprressors. You'll have more > power than two street tires can hook to the ground fer sure. > Mike V ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:28:21 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Buick V-6, was Prowler V6 David, Thanks for the info and advice... Any idea how much the T3's n T4's cost and who sells em a thte best price and maybe the best warranties n such? Thanks SO MUCH! LATER! Todd.... - ----------- David A. Cooley wrote: > > At 07:14 PM 6/14/99 +0000, you wrote: > >That's all VERY INTERESTING! > > > > > > >I was told that even if I ran TWIN t-1's that they wouldn't be enough > >for the 440! > > > > Why use T1's? that's about the smallest T trim turbo you can get... run a > pair of T3 or T4's and be done with it... a single T3 feeds 231 CI just > fine with minimal lag and boost to 20+ PSI at 5000 RPM a pair could surely > handle 440 CI with no problems. > > =========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! > =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 14:41:56 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Buick V-6, was Prowler V6 AWESOME MAN! Will do! How much do the chassis dyno dudes charge for a few pulls on their system? Just wonderin, is it like $50 or $250 or $500 or $1,000+? I have NO IDEA! How much do your buddies charge ya? ANYTHING? Thanks for the info! I DO already have a turbo off of an early 80's monte carlo, has a Quadrajet(Spreadbore) pedestal mount on the turbo inlet, Turbo's wasted, of course, that's why it was in the junk yard, I paid $75 for what I have, would really like the name of the company you entrusted with rebuilding your turbo's!! When/if ya ever run across it, lemme know, kay? LATER! Todd....!! Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > > What make, model, spec of turbo and turbine did ya use? > > On the Buick I believed I used two TE44's, which were way oversized for the > small engine, dispite all the porting. This is why the power of the turbos > weren't felt until radical RPMs for the OEM block, hence, why it exploded into > tiny little pieces. TE44 rings a bell. > > The turbos for the 431 stroker B block are nothing more than junkyard "Daytona" > turbos off the 2.2L engine, which gives good flow under the 4000-4200 RPM > range, but max out at about that. Since I want low RPMs and massive boost, > this combination worked for me. Almost 800 HP and about thte same in torque at > a mere 4100 RPM. > > > And where'd ya get it and fer how much?? > > I bought two complete Daytona engines, with turbo, PCM, manifolds, etc, for > $350 a pop, taking two out of there simultaniously. I sold both engines for > $700 in the local paper to two seperate individuals, as "long blocks", keeping > the turbos, O2 sensors from both engines just in case, and some other oddball > parts that were "kewl", and will probably sit and rot in the garage with the > rest of the rot. > > So, would that be free turbos? I think so. :) However, I spent close to 300 a > pop to have them rebuilt out somewhere in Texas, through my friend's body shop > who took care of it for me, with my checkbook. I can dig out the receipt next > time I head up there, I'm sure its on the counter in the shoebox next to the > dyno with my other stuff. > > > I was told that even if I ran TWIN t-1's that they wouldn't be enough > > for the 440! > > Bullshit. Well, maybe not. That depends on your goal. If you want a low rpm > torque monster, junkyard turbos can be had that will fit your needs, in a pair > of course. However, if you want 20lbs of boost at 8000 RPM, you are creating a > 800lb grenade :) > > > Whatcha think? (remember, I'll be turnin 5,500 MAX rpm so that's the > > limit of the flow, with maybe MAX 15 lb.s boost, naybe leave a tad bit > > room for more at a later date, all this WITH a BIG OL intercooler or two > > as well!) > > 5500 RPM and 15lbs should be doable with two TE44's without a doubt. Its been > a while since I've tortured Garrett's help line, however explain your needs, > goals, and where you want your maximum boost, and by all means, garrett's shop > are the nicest bunch of engineers around. However, you might considering not > being a prick at that point and getting free info and shopping elsewhere :) > > > And ALL on from regular to 115 octane depending on the boost used.... > > 115 octane? Shouldn't be a problem, if you are careful. Before you blast the > boost through your engine, break it in and run it to and from the RPMs that you > want to see, then when you are ready to add the boost, make sure you have a > "leak" in the wastegate setup, so that all the boost doesn't hammer in at once, > and use a pressure gauge on the plenum post intercooler, and one before the > intercooler, so you can see what's going on, and work your way up to max > power. I made the mistake of not doing so on the first buick V6 I built (was a > FWD 3.8L engine actually), and the motor, upon its first break in, blew up > right away. Dumb-ass waste of parts, labor, and possible injury. Give the > engine a chance to work in before you hammer it :) > > Temptation to push to the limit I assure you absolutely overwhelming. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:08:43 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" Subject: Re: Subject: Not diy_efi....how to disable a computer carb The air bleed side is for the idle mixture since the idle fuel does not go through the main jets. Gary Derian > That's only part of it Don. > When the solenoid pulls the needles down and closes off the jets it, also > opens an air bleed valve to further lean out the mixture. > Possible options are. Physically hold the needles half way in/out of the > jets. Or use a 555 as a base for a generating a 50% square wave, and > disconnect the engine check light. > > Neil ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 13:19:15 -0700 From: neilaura@xxx.com Subject: Re: Subject: Not diy_efi....how to disable a computer carb >> Neil >Been there, done that. Physically balancing the two works great at >idle, but lousy on the road. There's no deceleration enleanment, no >richening of mixture under load. I suspect the reason the carb goes >to full rich is to give some semblance of driveability, especially in >the underpowered, highway geared barges they were first used on. I've >run these carbs with the m/c solenoid disconnected, leaning the rich >stop some. Don't hope to pass an emissions test though, especially if >it requires off idle testing. Also, make sure the AIR pump isn't >pumping O2 into the manifolds or cat when you're running rich, else >you'll end up with a nice warm glow from the exhaust system. Feedback >carbs take some real skill, IMO, and the time you invest in them could >easily be replaced with time in a junkyard pulling parts for a tbi >swap. Bruce P can tell ya stories about those carbs, I've just >started working on them in the last few years. >Shannen > > I've been working on Q-jets, both feedback and the old power piston type for years. I have never had a problem getting them to work properly. But I agree with you 100%. If at all posible upgrade to Fuel injection, and use the Q-jet as a paperweight or if you have a pair, bookends. Neil ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:21:25 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Buick V-6, was Prowler V6 > How much do the chassis dyno dudes charge for a few pulls on their > system? Depending where ya go, I've seen prices from $50/hr including setup time, to $125/hr with setup time included free. Setup time for a car is merely "clamping" it so that the rear wheels rest on the rollers, and for an engine, is attaching the bellhousing to the stand, and the crank flange to the dyno thingy. > How much do your buddies charge ya? ANYTHING? Nada. > have, would really like the name of the company you entrusted with > rebuilding your turbo's!! I got them off the web somewhere. Also, www.gnttype.org website prolly has a few turbo rebuilding places on their vendor section. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:22:54 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Buick V-6, was Prowler V6 > Will have plenty of fuel for 1,000+ hp.... That's all fine and dandy. However :) Be sure that your a/f ratio is what you want all along the RPM band... this is the key to smooth power and more control. For us with three injectors per cylinder, this was an absolute BITCH to get right. The A/F was fine when the next stage injector leaped in, but a little lean just before. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:23:46 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Dual fuel PFI rails LCD thing > check out matrixorbital.com Check out www.eio.com - $99 NTSC 5" displays :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:31:20 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: Will Chevy Mount to GMTH425 Toronado/Eldorado Transaxle? > My question is whether a Chevy small block, or Chevy big block, or a > Cadillac NorthStar engine will bolt up to this transmission bellhousing. I Yess, Kennedy Advanced Adaptors in CA makes such an adaptor for the TH425 transaxle, and its simply a 3/8" thick plate, since the inside diameter of the bellhousing/block spacing is nearly identical. You could almost make one yourself if you are daring :) The Northstar, well, I don't know, but the Chevy will fit. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:39:42 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: Buick V-6, was Prowler V6 At 02:28 PM 6/15/99 -0700, you wrote: >David, > >Thanks for the info and advice... > >Any idea how much the T3's n T4's cost and who sells em a thte best >price and maybe the best warranties n such? Not sure what the going price is, but used ones at a junk yard can be rebuilt less than half the cost of a new one... Check around for 1978 to 1983 Buick Regal Sport coupe's... they were carbureted turbocharged and used the T3 or T4 (Can't remember which...) =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 18:19:56 -0400 From: Paul Tholey Subject: Re: Will Chevy Mount to GMTH425 Toronado/Eldorado Transaxle? Here is the information as I know it to be true. GM TurboHydromatic 425 automatic transmission/transaxle as used >in the 1966-75 Oldsmobile Toronado Traditional Buick Olds Pontiac Caddy bell patter. They are all the same, Chevy is different. I >am also wonder if the Oldsmobile bellhousing is the same bolt pattern as the>Cadillac? Are these two completely interchangeable in all aspects? As far as mechanics of bolt up yes. > >Does anyone know if the new Cadillac NorthStar engine has the same mounting >pattern as the older Cadillac GMTH 425 transaxle allowing these two to be >mated together? No, they are not the same. The northstar uses the GM front wheel drive patern so any front wheel drive pattern on newer cars should work. My bet is anything with overdrive is cool. Or alternatively, will the Cadillac NorthStar engine mount >to the Cadillac transaxle that was used in the 1981-1984 Cadillac Eldorado >that was not the transverse mounted engine arrangement but was the engine I beleive this to be yes, but I can doble check for you if this is a serious option. For more accurate info, check the archives! On tidbit I do know is that the S10 4cy and 2.8 V6 use the front wheel drive so that you can use a 700R4 out of an S10 to make your northstar RWD or use the Stick shift set up if you want a manual tranny RWD northstar. Paul Tholey ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:49:49 -0400 From: Paul Martin Subject: DIY-EFI References I am looking for a basic circuit to build a box to take the inductive signal from an existing pickup coil on a single cylinder 4 stroke engine and fire a 12volt coil (I need a simple on off output from the "box" to fire the coil Any idea of source for such a circuit?? Thanks for any help you might have. Paul Martin Regards PaulM **** Please note new email address**** pmartin@xxx.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 18:30:36 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: Will Chevy Mount to GMTH425 Toronado/Eldorado Transaxle? At 06:19 PM 6/15/99 -0400, you wrote: >On tidbit I do know is that the S10 4cy and 2.8 V6 use the front wheel >drive so that you can use a 700R4 out of an S10 to make your northstar RWD >or use the Stick shift set up if you want a manual tranny RWD northstar. A word of warning here is the 4 cyl and 2.8 S10 manual or auto trans was marginal at handling the low power of those two anemic engines... Put a northstar in front of it and you'll blow parts all over the driveway. If you can get the 700 R4 case and put some heavy duty V8 guts into it, it may last. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:17:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Davies Subject: Re: Will Chevy Mount to GMTH425 Toronado/Eldorado Transaxle? On Tue, 15 Jun 1999, Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > My question is whether a Chevy small block, or Chevy big block, or a > > Cadillac NorthStar engine will bolt up to this transmission bellhousing. I > > Yess, Kennedy Advanced Adaptors in CA makes such an adaptor for the > TH425 transaxle, and its simply a 3/8" thick plate, since the inside > diameter of the bellhousing/block spacing is nearly identical. You > could almost make one yourself if you are daring :) > Daring is not really a necessity. I turned out several hundred over the years using nothing but a drill press etc...3/8 is a bit thick, try 1/4 inch. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:23:26 -0600 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Prowler V6 >Didn't know Cummins used Fluidamprs for their apps! > >That's GREAT to know as well! > So does Navistar, so does CAT--there seems to be just a bit of a pattern in this! I am planning to adapt one swiped from the front of a DT-466 to the nose of the crank on my 621 cube multi-turbo motor. Greg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 19:49:17 EDT From: ARoss10661@xxx.com Subject: Looking for a webpage about Buick GNXs Ive lost the URL for a really cool Buick webpage that featured a huge technical section with dozens of how-tos about GMs including extra injectors and lots of other info Anyone know it?? Al ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 19:28:53 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe Subject: Re: Fw: Any Jeep owners? Michael Selig wrote: > This is the setup I am looking for, coupled with a turbo 350 or 400 and a > short rear driveshaft. I have done several SBC-CJ5 conversions. Use the Turbo 350 and Advance Adapters Adapter. You can get a 4wd turbo 350 (short output shaft) and save a few bucks. The T400 is too long. (and heavy). There are several other (T700R4, etc) kits available, but very expensive and (IMHO) not worth the $ for overdrive... just gear it right for your tires, you've already got an xfer case! I have always wanted to do a quadratrack (T400) by changing the tranny case and use a SBC or BBC or other GM (or SBF-460---Ford should fit in place of the 304/360 AMC into the stock bell housing) The T350 needs the $35 second gear sprag race from TCI to live over 500 FT LBS (and a kit). I put a 350/T350 in place of a 6 cyl 4 speed (old style w/ granny low) and didn't cut the drive shafts. (Hint - you can find stock drive shafts that fit). You can also use Bronco (2.5 ratio ?) gears in a Jeep Dana 20 Xfer case (2.0 ratio) - just cut and weld the shifter forks. I also made an adapter by welding together a shortened powerglide tailshaft housing and the last 2 inches of a T350 case to use a Powerglide (with tranny brake) between a 482 BBC and the AA T350/Dana20 adapter. The other racers were crawling underneath to figure out how I got such a good hole shot. The Turbo GN boys should try that!!! Good luck and reply offlist if you have any more questions. Tom ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 18:28:35 -0600 From: cwagner@xxx.net Subject: 730/727 ecu file I have been tinkering with the promedit program and have come up with an ecu file for the 730 and 727 computers. It can be located in incoming under the name of 730_727.ecu and has a required txt file in the same name. The text file has to do with any problems with the ecu file that can not be addressed for promedit. Give it a try and let me know what you think. Chet Wagner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:35:47 -0400 From: "David A. Cooley" Subject: Re: Looking for a webpage about Buick GNXs At 07:49 PM 6/15/99 -0400, you wrote: >Ive lost the URL for a really cool Buick webpage that featured a huge >technical section with dozens of how-tos about GMs including extra injectors >and lots of other info > http://www.gnttype.org/ =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:28:58 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe Subject: Re: Torque Converters Bruce Plecan wrote: > Anuone know how the Converterless Powerglides work with just the one > lever valve, for controllong it?. Seems like a PCM controller would be > rather easy to do. > Grumpy Open and close a pump bypass - just tap into the in and out passages in the front of the pump - open = no-go... Direct drive the pump and input shaft. Only problem is lack of flywheel (sometimes that's an advantage.) TomS ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 21:55:53 -0400 From: Barry Tisdale Subject: Re: Dual fuel PFI rails.... I understand the single rail, 2 fuels deal. BUT, like you said, changeover will take a bit of time (WAY too long), plus dilute the two fuels, bit by bit, by the volume contained in the rails. Common volume is maybe 120ml; would take several seconds to completely clear. Ok, with 2 rails feeding each injector, there's maybe 2cc or so "common" volume between any rail and the injector. The fuel pump prevents backflow; otherwise, it wouldn't hold pressure w/ the engine off - no check valve needed there. Each rail is fed by its own pump, & fuel exits via its own pressure regulator. Also, each rail 'out' line has a solenoid valve in parallel with the *same* fuel pump; normally closed valves. SO - when FP#1 is ON, retrun line #1 is also open = normal operation. Ditto for setup #2 - separate FP, reg, solenoid valve, takk, the works. Sure, you will get *some* mixing of fuel, but quite minimal, maybe 12cc or so per switchover. Pump gas is returned to its tank, race gas to its. Hardly any mixing. As soon as the electrical switchover takes place, the rail NOT being used is OFF, pressure-tight. Remember liquids are incompressable; the fuel in the unused rail has *nowhere* to go; will get *slight* mixing @xxx. As far as 5/16" being inadequate for rail size, seems to me the vast majority of pressure drop occurs @xxx. Thanks for all the feedback; where else can so many people get together for idea-bashing?? Time will tell. Time to start practicing drilling deep holes..... Barry - Syclone #26 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:51:28 -0400 From: Paul Tholey Subject: Re: Will Chevy Mount to GMTH425 Toronado/Eldorado Transaxle? Okay, there might be some EFI content here. Not too long ago there was a discussion about the traction control setup in a Fiero. Want to know more? Check the archives. Anyways, the traction contol was used by GM up to 18 mph so they could warranty the front CV joints. That is warranty them from sheering off due to the Northstar's power. Id a manual trans is desired, and the S10 fit's the budget, I am betting the traction contol system could be used to save the life of the tranny. After all, I have broken more 4 speeds from torque than horsepower. Eliminate the stress of torque launching the car (drag scenario) and I think you'll be A-okay. I believe the pcm would cut the injector to every other cyl. then alternate accordingly, similar to a limp home mode. Other ecm's are capable of such cutting of spark or fuel delivery so that it is still a viable option even without the Caddy pcm. I also know that the limp home mode allows the caddy to run without coolant just FYI. HTH Paul Tholey .At 06:30 PM 6/15/99 -0400, you wrote: >At 06:19 PM 6/15/99 -0400, you wrote: > >>On tidbit I do know is that the S10 4cy and 2.8 V6 use the front wheel >>drive so that you can use a 700R4 out of an S10 to make your northstar RWD >>or use the Stick shift set up if you want a manual tranny RWD northstar. > >A word of warning here is the 4 cyl and 2.8 S10 manual or auto trans was >marginal at handling the low power of those two anemic engines... Put a >northstar in front of it and you'll blow parts all over the driveway. If >you can get the 700 R4 case and put some heavy duty V8 guts into it, it may >last. >=========================================================== > David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net > Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 > Sponges grow in the ocean... Wonder how deep it would be if they didn't?! >=========================================================== > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 23:23:57 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Locating maps in an ECU Charles Brooks wrote: > > I was looking over some of the stuff on the site and I've got an idea. If I simply plot EVERYTHING in the ECU I should be able to see all of the 2D/3D maps right? They should look like ramps or some sort of regular waveform. I'm not sure if that's right or not but I'll go ahead and try it and let you guys know what I get. Yesterday I was unable to find a serial cable long enough to get to the Data I/O PROM reader we have here at work, but I have one now :) I'll dump the PROM at lunch and import the data to Excel and see what I can see. FYI, there's an expensive piece of "tuning" software that does little more than what you're thinking. It's actually a 2d plot of everything done in DOS. Tables usually look like sawtooth patterns. Something that's helpful is the ability to load and compare two proms , both with overlapping graphic plots and with a list of differing bytes and their values. Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 23:28:13 -0400 From: "Clare Snyder" Subject: Re: Buick V-6, was Prowler V6 - ----- Original Message ----- From: Todd....!! To: Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 5:31 PM Subject: Re: Buick V-6, was Prowler V6 > I hear ya mang! > > I already have more than my bogus 295/50's can handle, may have to mini > tub soon! > > Or at least move the leafs in for tire clearance.... > > Don't wanna HAVE to fully tub it, it IS a Superbee ya know... Some > people would see that as sacriledge or somethin, even if it WAS only a > 383 auto originally... Yes, a 383 - but did you know the SuperBee 383 had the 440 heads? ( and the RT came only with the 440) The RoadRunner was the 383 Magnum -not the same as the SuperBee - and the GTX was the 440 > > Am definitely runnin air-air intercooler(s)... > > Will have plenty of fuel for 1,000+ hp.... > > Thanks for the info and advice! > > LATER! > > Todd....!! > > ---------- > > ECMnut@xxx.com wrote: > > > > In a message dated 6/14/99 9:28:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, atc347@xxx.net > > writes: > > > > > I was told that even if I ran TWIN t-1's that they wouldn't be enough > > > for the 440! > > > > Twin T1's ... now were talkin phone lines?. Is this a virtual 440? > > Just kidding. You're looking at a turbo that can feed 220 cubes > > (if two are used) to 5500 rpm? That should be easy. The Buicks > > were 231 cubes. You could prolly find OEM Buick turbos > > on the cheap or ?.. As F.B. stated before, high RPM is not > > a prerequisite for big power with a decently matched turbo setup. > > Make sure you have the fuel delivery requirements covered, > > and decent intercooling after the comprressors. You'll have more > > power than two street tires can hook to the ground fer sure. > > Mike V > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 23:31:43 EDT From: ARoss10661@xxx.com Subject: Re: Looking for a webpage about Buick GNXs David thank u so much that was the one! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:45:16 -0500 From: Tom Sharpe Subject: Re: Combustion Pressure Sensor - revisited Can measuring crankshaft acceleration per degree dewtermine the sweet spot and how close you are to it??? TomS ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 23:51:27 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Will Chevy Mount to GMTH425 Toronado/Eldorado Transaxle? Jim Davies wrote: > > On Tue, 15 Jun 1999, Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > > > My question is whether a Chevy small block, or Chevy big block, or a > > > Cadillac NorthStar engine will bolt up to this transmission bellhousing. I > > > > Yess, Kennedy Advanced Adaptors in CA makes such an adaptor for the > > TH425 transaxle, and its simply a 3/8" thick plate, since the inside > > diameter of the bellhousing/block spacing is nearly identical. You > > could almost make one yourself if you are daring :) > > > Daring is not really a necessity. I turned out several hundred over the > years using nothing but a drill press etc...3/8 is a bit thick, try 1/4 > inch. And you always made sure the pilot on the torque converter was supported by the crankshaft or a bushing. : ) Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 00:03:20 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Will Chevy Mount to GMTH425 Toronado/Eldorado Transaxle? Paul Tholey wrote: > > Here is the information as I know it to be true. > > GM TurboHydromatic 425 automatic transmission/transaxle as used > >in the 1966-75 Oldsmobile Toronado > > > Or alternatively, will the Cadillac NorthStar engine mount > >to the Cadillac transaxle that was used in the 1981-1984 Cadillac Eldorado > >that was not the transverse mounted engine arrangement but was the engine > > I beleive this to be yes, but I can doble check for you if this is a > serious option. Same as Toro of that vintage. BOP pattern. > > For more accurate info, check the archives! Definitely! There were a couple of threads discussing GM engines/trans/bolt patterns at one time. Try "GM Tranny Bolt Patterns", which was submitted by an engineer at GM Powertrain, or "2.8L/3.1L AND 3.8L FWD same bellhousing pattern" which is the thread that lead to the engineer's post. Shannen > > Paul Tholey ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 00:02:47 EDT From: JCsDOOR@xxx.com Subject: Re: Will Chevy Mount to GMTH425 Toronado/Eldorado Transaxle? Tell me please what dose yhis have to do with efi??? Jim Crance ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 00:28:02 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Dual fuel PFI rails.... Barry Tisdale wrote: > > I understand the single rail, 2 fuels deal. BUT, like you said, changeover will take a bit of time (WAY too long), plus dilute the two fuels, bit by bit, by the volume contained in the rails. Common volume is maybe 120ml; would take several seconds to completely clear. > > Ok, with 2 rails feeding each injector, there's maybe 2cc or so "common" volume between any rail and the injector. The fuel pump prevents backflow; otherwise, it wouldn't hold pressure w/ the engine off - no check valve needed there. No, this is not true. The pumps can do anything from prevent backflow for a fair amount of time to not at all. Don't let the fact that there's a check valve in the pump convince you there's no need to isolate the supply sides of the fuel system. The check valves are usually only a neoprene or rubber disc held against a plastic seat by a small spring. Each rail is fed by its own pump, & fuel exits via its own pressure regulator. Also, each rail 'out' line has a solenoid valve in parallel with the *same* fuel pump; normally closed valves. SO - when FP#1 is ON, retrun line #1 is also open = normal operation. Ditto for setup #2 - separate FP, reg, solenoid valve, takk, the works. > > Sure, you will get *some* mixing of fuel, but quite minimal, maybe 12cc or so per switchover. Pump gas is returned to its tank, race gas to its. Hardly any mixing. As soon as the electrical switchover takes place, the rail NOT being used is OFF, pressure-tight. Remember liquids are incompressable; the fuel in the unused rail has *nowhere* to go; will get *slight* mixing @xxx. What about the temperature of the engine heating the fuel in the "closed" rail? With double rails you could experience problems with vapor buildup in the unused rail, leading to the need to purge the Hi Octy rails before the boost comes up. There's also the possibility that this system will force vapor or low octane fuel into the injectors from the sealed and heated rail during boost. I'm not going to say that a small amount of cheap stuff forced through the injector will cause a problem, but vapors will. So, if you're cautious and design the purge cycle into the changeover, you're back to the ability to use one rail, and energize the high octane pump before it's needed. Really, at 1 psi boost do you need to have a full concentration of race fuel? And, like Jason said, delaying the switching of the return side solenoids will purge the low octane fuel from the rail. Dumping small amounts of high-go-gas into the low octane side will only improve the contents of that tank. Shannen > > Barry - Syclone #26 ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #360 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".