DIY_EFI Digest Tuesday, June 22 1999 Volume 04 : Number 370 In this issue: Re: Holley Projection 4di help Re: Holley Projection 4di help Re: Bosch D-Jetronic VATN, blowers, etc. SV: Need help with Bosch part no. See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 01:08:24 -0400 From: Raymond C Drouillard Subject: Re: Holley Projection 4di help >provided >me with a program called HONDO - which grabs all the realtime data and lets >you review it offline to your heart's content. > >I bet nobody would care if I sent you a copy, eh? > >I'd be amused if us projection users got to know each other to swap tuning >tips, etc... Anyone else running any of the ProJections, be it analog or >digital? > >-Bill >Running a 900cfm 4di on a whipped 350 chevy I'm running Pro-Jection 4Di on an AMC 360 in my Jeep Grand Wagoneer. No more floatbowl problems when I decide to "take the hill". Ray ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 22:41:49 -0600 From: "Scott & Aida Peterson" Subject: Re: Holley Projection 4di help Yeah, Thanks Bill for the info (and everyone else who emailed me, I got a great response). I got a copy of HODO and that was just the ticket I was looking for. Yes, I agree that the Holley Projection tunners should share some tuning tips. I have just started working on mine. Feel free to email me anytime... The first thing I think I need to do is work on my header reducer. The darned muffler shop put a 2 1/4" exhaust tube several inches inside of my my header collecter instead of expanding the pipe over the reducer like they should of. I think it is causing some extra turbulence around the O2 sensor and giving rise to my choppy idle and irradic trim seen on the captured files that I now have. I could be trying to idle it too low. I have it set to 550 rpm now. I have a fresh 406 sbc with cam of 206/212 at .050 My old Carter carb seemed to idle fine at 500-600 rpm. So far I am just following the given Holley directions were I try to make the base fuel map run about -10 to -20% when in closed loop under part throttle conditions. Is there any other good advice to tuning? later, maybe much later, I am going to try to borrow a friend's Varicom for some dynamic accel tests. Does anyone have a 400 sbc map? > wrote: >snip >I am looking for a way to capture the output from my Holley Projection 4di. >> snip snip >>Yea, I just started running a 4di - and the fellow I bought it from provided >>me with a program called HONDO - which grabs all the realtime data and lets >>you review it offline to your heart's content. >> snip snip >> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:58:56 -0700 From: "James Thomas" Subject: Re: Bosch D-Jetronic Thanks for the response. I really need to get a map of the internals of the ECU. See what you can find. Thanks, James - ----- Original Message ----- From: Stowe, Ted-SEA To: Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 10:14 PM Subject: RE: Bosch D-Jetronic > I had a d-jet on my 914's , I used to time trail one at sears point. there > is one outside in my 72 Saab 99. > > I eventually built a 8051 replacement, but the original system was quite > capable, I've heard stories of guys putting roll bars in 914's and drilling > into and through the ECU and the car still ran, makes you wonder. > > I have never seen a complete schematic, however there was a subset of d-jet > ECU's that had a mixture adjustment control on the ECU, also I have found > that old temp sensors generally didn't work, also the points used in the > distributor should be checked out. I used to disconnect the inlet temp > sensor, (not the head temp sensor), this tricked the ECU into running rich. > also another trick was to drill out the plug in the external map sensor so > you could adjust that. a long time ago I vaguely remember seeing some > schematic details in one of my Porsche club archive books, I'll check and > see if I still have it. I wish I still had that 914 too. > > Ted Stowe > > > -----Original Message----- > From: James Thomas [mailto:jtvol@xxx.com] > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 6:05 PM > To: DIY_EFI@xxx.edu > Subject: Bosch D-Jetronic > > > Here is a good one for you guys. I own a Volvo Specialty Service in > California. I am 50 years old and an old SCCA racer (used to race in > E-Production in a '58 Porsche Speedster in the 1970's). I am completing a > new project for SCCA racing, a 1971 Volvo 142 to compete in ITB. Pretty > much got all the tricks down. This car is brand new from the ground up > (every nut, bolt and molecule). Got all the latest trick ideas from my > other Volvo ITB racers that I have been helping for the last few years. I > am planning this one to be a world beater ( if I can still drive ). Here is > the question...I am having a problem finding a schematic of the D-Jetronic > control unit (MPC) so I can adjust the fuel mixture in different ranges. I > don't want to mess with the head temp sensor resistance as it seems to mess > up the injection timing, got to work on the inside. Haven't gotten much from > Bosch. Need some engineering brains who might have some thoughts on > modifying the innards of this unit. > Any thoughts out there? > James Thomas > James Thomas Independent Volvo Service > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 00:11:44 -0700 From: Jason Subject: VATN, blowers, etc. With this talk about superchargers and turbos running rampant, I'll throw in my two cents regarding street cars, turbos, and blowers... The VATN unit is a good idea, but unfortunately they don't make larger trim levels. The concept of having a variable exhaust turbine is great, and the Aerodyne VATN does it very well. Also, the VATN unit is the only turbo I know of that has a self contained lubrication system. In other words, the VATN turbo has a fluid reservoir designed to hold a specified amount of special lubricant...no more oil lines to the pan! Simply change the fluid in it like you would the oil in the engine. No need to "tap" the oil or anything like that. Like I said though, the largest VATN unit will only push about 350hp-400hp though. A little Garrett T03 can do that. Garrett (Allied Signal) also has a special variable geometry exhaust turbine unit too, although it's not popular in the aftermarket scene. Probably does more duty in large turbo diesel engines... Apples and Oranges alert: I think that a properly selected and configured turbo will easily outperfom any supercharger, on a street car. For instance, I've played with the Eaton M60 and Vortech V1 blowers...and they pale in comparison to a turbo. The Eaton, simply by its positive displacement design...is decent for low end torque on V6s. The Vortech V1 unit really doesn't impress me. Doesn't matter if you stick it on a LT1, or a 302...give me a turbo instead. The linear boost thing just doesn't cut it, in my book. Parasitic drag that robs hp is another bummer. Then there's that damn gear driven noise...some love it...I think maybe I'm too old for that crap now days. It gets old. Pulling up to every light and just hearing that "whine" can scare some away. I prefer stealth. Give me my T3/T04E ceramic bearing unit...and you'll hear a little whistling "whooosh" as I easily run away and hide. Very nice. Upgrade to more power? Well, with a SCer...you're looking at swapping a pulley. Smaller pulley equals more boost. Boost is limited by rpm, and it's usually a linear scale. Full boost occurs at max rpm, and it sucks to be you at 1500 rpm! Ha ha. Turbo? Easy, just dial up the boost. The age of mechanical boost control is gone. It's all about fuzzy logic controllers and stepper motors to regulate boost. Extremely repeatable and reliable. The drawbacks? Lots. Turbos produce heat, more than SCers. The air charge is pretty damn hot, and so is the engine compartment. Turbos require a few more controllers and gadgets to make things work (blow off valve, boost controller, wastegate, usually an intercooler). Fuel ecomomy? BUHAHA!! Regulate your mileage with your right foot. Some seem to think that the increase in cylinder pressure reduces engine life. I say it depends on what level of boost you run (and yout static CR), the quality of the engine internals,type of fuel, the type of forced induction, the specific model of the blower or turbo, the type of driving you do, the fuel/ignition mapping, ambient temps, and a slew of other factors. Knowing a few things about turbos can help you ensure reliability (don't hammer the car at full boost for twenty seconds, and then shut the car off without letting things cool down first). With a Vortech blower, always change the oil every 3k miles or so (turbo too), using synthetic oil. Always inspect the serpentine drive belt for dry rot, cracks, and tightness. There are some "break-in" techniques as well, when the blower or turbo is brand new. Lots of little tips and tricks that will keep the car on the road, and off the jack stands. Anyway, looks like I drifted a little off topic. Bottom line: forced induction is far superior to displacement for performance and convenience, let alone economics. Oh yeah, a variable geometry intake manifold LOVES boost! Some of you guys should try one, or make one. Enjoy. Jason '93 SLC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 10:48:10 +0200 From: "Gustaf Ulander" Subject: SV: Need help with Bosch part no. Hi Alex - ----- Ursprungligt meddelande ----- Från: > I have access to a box full of Euro regulators at a US envirnomental > affairs site. The Euro regs have atmospheric(boost) and vacuum ports > The main diff. it seems in regualtors is spring and heater > ratings for cold start. You can adjust cold and hot pressures with > a BFH or similiar hammer. > alex Hmm...maybe I wasn't clear enough. It is not the usual K-jetronic warm-up (or control pressure) regulator I am worried about, but rather an "EFI-style" pressure regulator coupled in parallell to the warm-up ditto. The regulator in question looks just like the ones used on the end of a L, LE -jetronic/Motronic EFI. Regards Gustaf (btw, the car in question (1974 Capri Turbo) is finally up and running OK) > > Hi List > > > > I would need some hwlp with a Bosch part number - it is a (special) fuel > > pressure regulator from a 1979 (ish) Saab 99 Turbo (K-jetronic). Looks as > > your normal pressure regulator, but I suspect it should reference to boost, > > but I'm not sure, and don't know the "rate" (boost vs fuel pressure). > > > > The part number is 0 280 160 208 , stamped under that is 822. > > > > > ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #370 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".