DIY_EFI Digest Tuesday, June 22 1999 Volume 04 : Number 371 In this issue: Re: Archives [admin] diy_efi on digest Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: Archives Re: 7730 and dis Re: NC crank prep/lightening for a DIY'r? Snout Drive Re: PIC Programmer Re: lower-noise accelerometer part (was: g meter) Re: GMC thingee - De-activation clutch - Enter MAD MAX setup.... Re: alternative engines, WARPED Re: Injector geometry Re: vipers Re: Non A*E* Roots Numbers Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: Buick V-6, was Prowler V6 Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Re: Turbo'd s.b. chev...in a 69 Camaro? maybe? Re: Prowler V6 Re: To Todd Re: Prowler V6 Re: Holley Projection 4di help Re: VATN, blowers, etc. See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:47:30 +1000 From: "Geoff Richards" Subject: Re: Archives Shannen wrote >In summary, you'll need an eprom burner, and an eraser, (a computer, >of course), an adapter (ecm dependent) and a prom. This will start >you down the road to reading and burning proms. And reading and >burning proms is amazingly easy. You'll want to read the instructions >that come with your burner, and give yourself some time to get >familiar with the tools. Thank you,this is what I wanted to know BUT does the burner required depend on which ECM I want to play with ? I have seen plenty of burners advertised but have been too scared to part with the $ if it's not what I need > >The questions you should answer first are what ECM am I going to work >with (what car is it in), and what's the final goal. I want to work on a PCM in the Holdens and my goal will be to just tidy up (for want of better words) the easier details ,like changing TCC lock- up speeds Also with the particular Holden I am interested in we experience a cold stall hesitation that is overcome by a replacement memcal In the future I would like to be able to read the revised memcal and modify mine accordingly Anyway that's enough from me Thanks once again Geoff ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:25:53 -0400 From: jsg@xxx.com Subject: [admin] diy_efi on digest For the short term, I have placed everyone on the diy_efi mail list on the digest version. This is hopefully temporary.... be patient and trim the replies! :) Thanks. john ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 07:46:57 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi > Or line boring the block for the larger size... While that's doable, its generally prefered by most to turn the crank down. Plus, its easy to find a 440 crank that's not usable for a 440 engine, yet can be turned down enough for a "B" block. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:17:26 -0400 From: David Cooley Subject: Re: Archives At 07:47 PM 6/22/99 +1000, you wrote: > >Thank you,this is what I wanted to know BUT does the burner required >depend on which ECM I want to play with ? >I have seen plenty of burners advertised but have been too scared to >part with the $ if it's not what I need >> Not really... Get the Needhams PB10... $129.00 US it's an Internal ISA card with an external ZIF socket... Supports up to 27C040 (4 Mega Bit) out of the box and will do 80C51 and lots of other unusual devices with adapters they have available. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:33:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Pat Ford Subject: Re: 7730 and dis Hi Grumpy glad to hear from you Previously, you (Bruce Plecan) wrote: > Subject: 7730 and dis > > > | Does anyone have a bin for a 7730 app that is around 2.25L? > > DIS-Ditributor-TBI-TPI-4cyl-6cyl. Distributorless ignition system, sorry shoulda been clearer first time, 4cylinder tbi or tpi. tbi would be a good start ( easier to start with) > I've just quit assuming.. I'll try to be a bit clearer > Grumpy > > | Can anyone recommend a disassembler ( I'd preffer a unix or source code > beast) > | Thanks > | Pat ( still has alot to learn) ford > > thanks - -- Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:43:52 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: NC crank prep/lightening for a DIY'r? Ludis Langens wrote: > > > The smaller burrs are $10 to $15 (US) each. I got mine from a machine > tool supply house. Eastwood does have a few in their catalog. If you > are working in aluminum, you need special burrs meant for soft materials. > Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com > Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ If you use carbide burrs frequently, and sometimes tend to abuse them, Matco Tool Co. sells burrs with a lifetime warranty. I bought a set of 4 1/4" shank burrs for $75 last July. Shannen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 13:02:00 GMT From: bob@xxx.com (Robert Harris) Subject: Snout Drive Guess I am the only one who casually notices that a significant number of marine Vee Drives take all the power of the snout of the engine instead of the flywheel and silly assed me just assumes that if it can take it all without damage, then why worry about a portion of it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:45:40 -0500 From: Steve Gorkowski Subject: Re: PIC Programmer I think Pic is great way to start learning uC chips. If my program gets larger than a Pic it goes to a PC104 board. As a general rule if the project codes bigger than a Pic the chances of that home project getting done is slim. I recommend you to use several Pics and do one for fuel control ( maybe one for each cyl.) and one for spark control ( I recommend to just buy the Pic ignition kit it works). I also recommend using a junker lawn mower engine recommend electric start on it . Use it as a test unit for your project . Getting that engine running the first time on your code is very rewarding . I did my first coding for engines on a 8051 before Pic was out there and would use the Pic over the 8051 . Never had time to finish the code for the car but with the information from this group should help you get it coded. I recommend coding in a higher level language I use the CCS C compiler. Just my experiences and wish you the best of luck on all your projects. Steve Peter Gargano wrote: > My 2 cents worth on the PIC... > > Simon Quested wrote: > > > A$25 for a starter kit... > > Is this the sort of thing that is good for a complete beginner in PICs? > > (like me) > > I think that it's very good value, BUT, you have to ask yourself why > you're going to use a PIC. These devices are great for performing > many small logic functions - and the Scenix devices (fast PIC clones) > seem to be fast enough to even replace existing hardware devices > (perhaps even a slow CPU). > > The biggest drawback is that the PIC has only small amounts of program > memory. This is built into the architecture and means that larger > projects are much harder to program because you have to worry about > things like your code crossing a page boundary, etc. > > Traditional microprocessor architectures like the 68HC11, 68332, etc. > can access lots of program memory and are not limited in the same way > a PIC is. On the other hand, to do anything with one of these "bigger" > chips, you have to write a lot of code just to get the CPU to power > up its internal circuitry and talk to the outside world. > > You may have heard about the Basic Stamp (and like clones) that can > be programmed in BASIC (or even C). These devices use a PIC chip, > but they read an external program (usually stored in a serial EEPROM). > For each high level instruction it interprets, the PIC has to > read the EEPROM, decode what is required, then do it. This slows the > PIC down by orders of magnitude compared to running from its "native" > mode, and compared to an a "traditional" microprocessor. In general > a Basic Stamp (or similar) is NOT suitable for an EFI project. On the > other hand, a simple ignition controller is quite do-able (Jaycar also > have a PIC ignition controller kit!). > > I have to be honest and say that if you want to get into programming > micros then one of the best things to do is get something like an > Apple II or C64, etc. People are throwing them out and you can get > them for nothing (perhaps someone will pay you to take one away!). > Get a book about programming, spend some time getting to know how > to program your CPU, and then, if you're still motivated, AND you > really have something you want to program, team up with one of the > current EFI332 projects and you'll be in a position to understand > what's happening. > > If you do get say an Apple, what you'll learn may not be about the > same micro that's in a particular ECU (although the 6502 is not > unlike the 6800 which is the basis for the 68HC11 which is used > in many GM ECUs) but it will give you a basis for understanding > how the microprocessor in the ECU works - that has to be good for > something! > > regards, > -- > Peter Gargano ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:34:16 -0400 From: Bill Shaw Subject: Re: lower-noise accelerometer part (was: g meter) I'm using a ADXL150 and the 16 bit a/d in a PIC 14000 to get about 14 bits of usable resolution on one of my projects. The accelerometer and A/D are working extremely well, very low noise. - ------------------------------------------------------------ Bill Shaw '78 FI Spider (Will soon be) Fuel injected and stepping out over the line http://www.connix.com/~bshaw/fiatefi.html - ------------------------------------------------------------ > >It's the ADXL105. 1 axis, +/-5g with fairly easy scaling, on chip temp >sensor, surface mount only afaict, and an uncommited op-amp on board. >Analog Dev says preliminary, Avnet says $30 for 1, call for stock info >(i.e. not in stock). Let me know if you get one and it looks good. > > Chris C. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:10:35 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: GMC thingee - De-activation clutch - Enter MAD MAX setup.... Hello Gary, makes sense to me.... In ONE of the Mad Max movies, he had his car setup to run on some sorta econo engine(Lack of gas in the future and all, was a MUST) then, whenever a bad guy came cruisin for a bruisin, he'd flick one switch and the BIG motor woudl crank up, then, I believe he'd flip another switch once he caught up to the bad guy, this second switch activated his blower clutch, and whalaa, he'd catch the bad guy and run em over or somethin.... They actually showed the vlower engage from a front view camera... It was SO COOL! If ya haven't seen it, I suggest ya check it out, I believe it was one of the first 2 Mad Max's movies where this feature was shown.... Later.... Todd.... - ---------- Gary Derian wrote: > > Any supercharging device requires a reduction in compression ratio to limit > detonation. That also reduces the expansion ratio which is where all the > power and economy comes from. Crank driven superchargers are stuck with the > low expansion. Turbine driven superchargers increase the expansion ratio at > the same time they increase the compression ratio. This makes them > inherently more efficient while running boost. Crank driven is OK for short > bursts of passing power if coupled with a de-activating clutch so parasitic > losses can be eliminated during cruise conditions. > > Gary Derian > > > > Turbo and other devices still impose loss's on the system - you would be > > amazed how much of a restrictive loss that turd up your tail pipe is. > Unless > > you sell Pogue carbs - TANSTAAFL ( There Ain't No Such Thing as a Free > Lunch > > - Heinlein ) applies and granted overall its less than the roots pumping > loss. > > > > But for fueling purposes, the roots tracks closely to a greatly increased > > displacement NA engine. Most OEM EFI stuff can be set right over the > blower > > and not even suspect its blown - if they can flow enough fuel to match the > > air. And the pulsing of a long duration cam is eliminated also - making > it > > easier. And no sharply rising pressure curve to compensate for either. > The > > ease of fueling was part of the reason that turbos did not make major > inroads > > until the 80's. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:25:15 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: alternative engines, WARPED I hear ya Fred... You've converted me to a low rpm man... However, the low rpm only applies when boostin the engine, not in naturally aspirated cars.... And MOST people don't know how to turbo or supercharge an engine, nor can most afford to do so... Therefore ya either wind er up or sit on the sidelines after your first run after you're ELIMINATED, ya know? That's all I was speakin about, you and I are some of the FEW who even CONSIDER much less actually APPLY the boost to BB Mopes or any other engien for that matter... Ya know? LATER TATER! Todd..... http://www.c-com.net/~atc347/toddlnk.htm Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > > cyl wall thickness and safety THEN DE_STROKIN the sucker to a shorter > > stroke than a 350 chev!! > > I think you are making this too complicated... > > If you want the B block, do up a 400cid block with a 440 steel crank, > 440 YJ rods, and wiseco pistons. The crank journals get turned down > to the right diameter to match the B block, and there you have it... a > 451 stroker engine. > > Better yet, use the 383 block which certain years have thicker cyl > walls, stroke it to 431 cid, then add two turbos. Watch my taillights > :) Picture a hair over 700 HP at a mere 4200 RPM. > > > The 400 Mopar is where it's at if ya want a high revvin engine! > > Why rev? The "jerk" force at the top of the stroke, when the crank > starts to bring the piston down, increases exponentially with RPM > increases. So, keep the RPMs low, boost the hell out of it, and get > your power that way. You'll break less parts in the long run. Based > on a past life I revved 500cid blocks all the way into the 10k's and > look at all the pretty, overpriced, titanium parts that flew all over. > > > into the 400 block and create a REALLY lightweight internal 451 stroker > > motor! > > Using aluminum pistons make things even lighter, at a tradeoff of > piston skirt expansion, thus requiring more clearance in the bores, > thus more blow-by until things heat up to operating temperature. > > > to the law of supply and demand, more people but chev's and Fordsouta > > the yards than Mopars... > > For V8 engines, that's true here in Connecticut too. > > -- > > Frederic Breitwieser > Bridgeport CT 06606 > > 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental > 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy > 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos > 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:29:13 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Injector geometry COOL Idea Fred, Thanks for mentionin it! I can imagine it now, a tunnel ram on the Bee, with no carbs OR furl rails or injectors anywhere to be found! That would look so trick! ALSO, question, at the end of your post(below) you mentioned that on a BB Mope that the single fuel rail theory wouldn't work, why is that again? Cuz of the heads bein so far apart or what? That's what it sounded like but I just wanted to make sure... Thanks.... Todd.... Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > > It seems to me that most if not all of these types of > > manifolds i have seen have the injectors mounted > > straight up. > > Yes, like I did. Why? The manifold sits flat on the drill > press table, and the drill press drills down. A lot easier for a home > shop person to drill a straight vertical hole than to drill a 45 > degree angled hole. Though, in the case of the tunnel ram, if there > is room on the inside, I'd mount them towards the center under the > plenum facing down against the intake valve head, and have one fuel > rail. > > If he uses the injectors with two o-rings, one on each end, you have > enough play to adjust them as they get pushed in, so the tops (fuel > supply/fuel rail side) get installed first, then the injectors are > pushed into the bosses on the inside of the tunnel ram, and there you > have it, one fuel rail. > > However, if his engine is a Mopar B block, its not going to reach from > side to side unfortunately. Injectors don't seem to mind not being > vertical. > > -- > > Frederic Breitwieser > Bridgeport CT 06606 > > 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental > 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy > 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos > 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:35:05 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: vipers I'v enever seen a Viper autocross! THAT would be cool! You described it very well, almost like the mags did when they tested the Viper out in their own lil autocross tests... AWESOME, BRUTE, UNFORGIVING POWER!! HOWEVER, I HAVE watched a ZR-1 go thru the twisties... Looked like a ballet or somethin, VERY fine in the turns, good accel, good decel, and was quiet as well! Wonder if the Viper would look as sweet if ya turned the sound off, so ya couldn't hear all the noise and ruckus it was makin from it's engine and the tires and all.... Thanks again for the cool description about the Viper in the twisties... Later! Todd.... soren wrote: > > > Some didn't know how to drag and just spun in every gear down the entire > > quarter, others missed a shift now and again... Was VERY fun at both > > ends of the track... Watchin em launch as well as watchin em cross the > > line at the big end at 130+! OPEN HEADERS!!(No side pipes rather) > > A guy brings his Viper to our local autocrosses. I think a good driver > could really turn some great times with one of those cars. We always get a > smoke show: smoke from locked brakes going into a turn, smoke from spinning > tires coming out. It's fun to watch the women grab their babies and run > when he starts looping it coming into a hairpin headed toward the > spectator's area! > > Soren ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:41:16 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Non A*E* Roots Numbers So the DIRECT crank driven blowers cause less stress(load) on the crank? If so, then it may be prudent to run a rear engine setup in order to fit it all within the boundaries of the vehicle, ey? Like a Pantera or Porch or the like... Have seen ONE 69 Charger with a 500 cid caddy with transaxle in the back seat, even had two turbo's installed on the upsidedown manifolds, was gonna use a blow thru system, with mechnical injection. (The dude was of the old 6 and 8-71 blown mech inj school) so he alreaddy had about all the parts he needed.... The dude had a mechanic garage in Waco... Haven't been able to find him since... Oh ya, also, the Charger's top was shopped and a HUGE fuel cell was under the hood for at least a bit of nose weight.... Was one awesome setup, wonder if he ever finished... He was also workin on cars at the other end of the spectrum, as in an MGB or midget with an electric motor and a $hitload of batteries... He was sellin em... Later.... Todd.... Lawrence E. Mayfield wrote: > > No, no real solutions. No matter what kind of idler you add, the crank is > still the dohickey that has to pull that belt around and that's what causes > the funky crank problems. I suspect that the aftermarket blocks like the > big boys use in their top fuel and funny cars has extra strength to help, > but I suspect that a lot of blown engines result from crank flex. A > solution for 6-71 or similar blowers would be those old inline crank gear > driven units that stuck out in front. The only car I have seen one of those > in lately was a land speed car with a blown chevy. Nice but sure add to the > length of the motor system. > > mayf > > At 11:46 AM 6/21/99 -0700, you wrote: > >Sounds like a valid issue mayf, > > > >However, you didn't state any solution, like runnin an idler pulley or > >such in between the crank pulley and the blower pulley or somethin, any > >ideas? > > > >Thanks, > > > >Todd.... > > > >------ > > > >Lawrence E. Mayfield wrote: > >> > >> Been lurking around and listening to the talk of crank driven blowers. One > >> of the things that strike me is the damage potential caused by driving the > >> pump from the crank snout. Taking a 100 horsepower out the crank snout puts > >> a tremendous side load on the crank which causes flexing of the crank. I > >> know it is hard to visualize a big stout crank flexing but they do. What > >> happens then is that this stresses the block's main bearing webs and > >> subsequent cracking through the web to the cam bearing races. This is > >> probably the cause of many blown Ford 302 engines which have split the > >> block. Just a thought or two... > >> > >> mayf > >> > >> At 06:20 PM 6/20/99 -0700, Walter Sherwin wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> >>One of the more significant things to observe in the numbers posted > here is > >> >>how LOW the VE for a Roots is at low engine/blower speed--these low VE > >> >>numbers at low speed translate to not much boost there until the revs are > >> >>up a bit!! A VATN turbo will actually get the boost up a LOT SOONER > than a > >> >>Roots or a Screw huffer!! Get it up rates for VATN turbo/ > >> >>Roots/conventional turbo are prolly sorta comparable to the same rates > for > >> >>a 15 year old boy/ 30 year old man/50 year old man! > >> >> > >> >>Another point to consider--Don't even THINK about running a Roots or a > >> >>screw in "blow thru" configuration! > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >I agree completely with your comments regarding the "Roots" blowers. On > >> >the other hand, "Screw" compressor technology has come a long way over the > >> >years. You might be surprised by the performance figures for an optimized > >> >screw unit, no matter whether you want to examine 1)Dry Discharge > >> >Temperature 2)Adiabatic Efficiency 3)Volumetric Efficiency > 4)Parasitic > >> >Power 5)Internal Compression Ratio...........etc. Sized correctly, a > >> >screw(s) can nearly match the peak efficiency of a good turbo system, > but do > >> >so over a much broader range, with near instant response (wet or dry). > >> > > >> >Do you have a URL for the VATN turbos? > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >Walt. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> L.E. Mayfield > >> 124 Maximillion Drive > >> Madison, Al. 35758-8171 > >> 1-256-837-1051 > >> > >> http://www.hsv.tis.net/~mayfield > >> > >> DrMayf@xxx.com > >> mayfield@xxx.com <<< >> > >> Bonneville Land Speed Racer, '66 Hydroplane Drag Boat (390 FE) > > > > > > > > L.E. Mayfield > 124 Maximillion Drive > Madison, Al. 35758-8171 > 1-256-837-1051 > > http://www.hsv.tis.net/~mayfield > > DrMayf@xxx.com > mayfield@xxx.com <<< > Bonneville Land Speed Racer, '66 Hydroplane Drag Boat (390 FE) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:48:51 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Cool deal Gary, Plus ya got like up to 30+ mpg, ey? I did, on the hiway anyways... My Eclipse NEEDS all the lil rocker arm adjuster thingymajigs that noone knows the name of, and therefore can't sell me! A mechanic told me they cost $20 a piece, but no way to verify til I get that part name or number! Then the mechanic said they'd charge $500 total includin the elusive part to replace all 16 of em, which would take me about a week to do, cuz I'd have to pull the timin belt off and a bunch of other stuff, been there, done that, even ran outa money for parts in the middle of the timin belt replacement last time, ran out amoney durin the clutch replacement time before that! Parts are REALLY expensive for that Eclipse, still have it, sittin in the backyard now, looks fairly decent back there, with the Bee in the driveway.... Later.... Todd....!! Gary Derian wrote: > > I had an Eagle Talon, same car as yours and it ran flawlessly for 110,000 > miles. Just tuneups, well ok, it needed plug wires, brake pads, tires, > timing belt and a wheel bearing. Not bad. > > Gary Derian > > > Gotta love them overheads! > > > > My Mitsu Eclipse Turbo 5-speed is one piece of work... The 4 cams are > > all ROLLER cams, and the thing is lifter-less! The rollers are in the > > middle of the rockers! The cam rides right on top of the rocker arm > > rollers themselves! ALL 16 of em! > > > > Guess what happens when a lil unsee-able hydraulic adjuster mechanism on > > the opposite side from the valve on under the rocker arm getss worn or > > gets crap in it? > > > > The thing clatters like I don't know what! Like it's not gettin oil > > pressure or somethin! > > > > That's my current delimma with my Eclipse, the lil adjusters are > > supposedly $20 each! Times 16 of em puts me WAY over budget for that > > car, that's one of the reasons I'm drivin the Superbee to work n back, > > I'd like to see a part that breaks cost more than $200 on my Bee! My > > ENTIRE friggin 440 didn't even cost more than $135 from the junk yard! > > > > The Eclipse also could use another transaxle, have a crank in this > > one... That'll be fun to pull again, just replaced the clutch and > > timing belt within the past year... Oh what fun it is to have a foriegn > > car in your lot! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 08:54:32 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Buick V-6, was Prowler V6 Know a guy with a sonic checker, (His handle is 451) He bought it JUST to verify whether or not all old wives tales spread around about different blocks are true! Well, thus far, he's not believing ANY of em. None of the blocks checked so far verify what all has been spread about any of em! I even created a site with most of his findings thus far at: http://www.c-com.net/~atc347/sonic/ Check it out, if you hav any hard evidence of ANY facts about block thickness or casting tricks and hints, e-mail em to me, I'll run em past 451 and see what he has to say bout em! Take er easy all! Todd.... http://www.c-com.net/~atc347/toddlnk.htm .. wrote: > > Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > > > > 400 block - its a stouter block in a lot of ways, even though the > > journals are smaller. I do believe the 400 block is the one Chrysler > > uses to make the crate 528cid Hemi engine... not the 440. The 400 has > > thicker cyl walls. > > No, the Hemi block was/is cast from an entirely different set of molds. I > agree with your view of the 400 block - It is an excellent block especially > if you can find one out of a vehicle that had the "Trailer pulling Package" > - this block was a high nickel content block (similar to the Hemi and the > marine castings), very strong... > rap ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:01:24 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Bill, Fallacies with your statement, or you could say that ya may have just left out a few critical issues.... #1: The crank doesn't have to be turned in order to fit it in the low block(B-block) the block can be align bored to the size of the larger journaled crank, this is how good ol Keith Black does/did it... ALSO, you may be able to use the original heavy a$$ rods from the Hemi if ya want, the piston pin height can be cast at various heights in order to obtain the correct piston placement in the engine... As for the 6 bolt vs. 8 bolt crank flange issue (Where the flywheel/flexplate bolt up) is null due to parts being plentiful for either....(But it is a noteworthy difference, which is probably why ya mentioned it, ey? I've gone thru the issue about whether or not we can use a hemi crank in our rb engine block quite a while back, check out the one's I found for sale at a swap meet at: http://www.c-com.net/~atc347/swap There were some VERY COOL Hemi stuff for sale, like alum rods and alloy rods and cool pistons and stuff... Later... Todd.... Bill Edgeworth wrote: > > Greg Hermann wrote: > > > > > Yep--the 2,3, &4 caps are cross bolted on a Hemi. Cranks do not interchange > > either. > > > > Greg > > You can use the Hemi crank in a RB engine however there is the issue of balance > (the Hemi has heavier stock rods) and a 8 bolt flange on the Hemi as opposed to a > 6 bolt on the RB engine. Both the 440 and 426 have 3.75 stroke. However the Low > block (383-400) has smaller mains and you cannot use the Hemi crank without > cutting down the mains. > > Bill Edgeworth ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:07:44 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi Good to know Grumpy! Interesting find! Thanks! Todd.... - -------- Bruce Plecan wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Pat Ford > To: > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 8:09 AM > Subject: Re: alternative engines, now Hemi > > | Previously, you (Bruce Plecan) wrote: > > | SNIP > > | > | why not have a spark plug with a very long nose and no side electrode > > | > Saab done it already, trouble was erosion at top of ring pattern when > spark > | > occured. > > | cool thanks for the info, just one question: > > | was that due to arcing at that area? > > Shouldn't have been arcing, they mentioned erosion of the cylinder wall > where the ring travel stopped. I'm quessing but, it sounds like the > lubrication oil film has enough resistance theat the only grounds left are > thru the rings (or the ones with least resistance. > Grumpy > | > Grumpy > | > | > | -- > | Pat Ford email: pford@xxx.com > | QNX Software Systems, Ltd. WWW: http://www.qnx.com > | (613) 591-0931 (voice) mail: 175 Terrence Matthews > | (613) 591-3579 (fax) Kanata, Ontario, Canada K2M 1W8 > | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:11:26 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Turbo'd s.b. chev...in a 69 Camaro? maybe? Good point Gary, The way I'm thinkin about this issue is that the turbo is wasting most of it's boost while the engine's at WOT at lower rpms, then as the engine rpm's come up to speed, the wastegate is just wasting less and less boost, thus the lag you mention is nonexistant and is, in reality, just wasted boost thru an open wastegate, ya think? Later.... Todd.... - -------- Gary Derian wrote: > > Lag IS important even when drag racing with an automatic. As the engine > revs faster in the lower gears, the turbo will be a bit behind and you will > get less boost in the lower gears. This might be OK but you can't just > ignore lag. > > Gary Derian > > > Makes sense to me.... > > > > Personally, I'd rather have the 'lag' and more power as well as less > > thermal stress on the engine than the alternative... > > > > In dragracing, if runnin an automatic, turbo lag is not an issue, due to > > power braking prior to launching at the startin line gettin rid of the > > initial lag.... > > > > Cool? > > > > LATER! > > > > Todd....!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:13:12 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Prowler V6 OK Fred, sounds GREAT!, So, how much have ya invested in the Hummer! And this is the first time I've heard of ya usin an AUDI transaxle, what up with that? Does the audi transaxle have the BOP bolt pattern? or what? Thanks for the info! Todd... - ------ Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > > Is your Hummer mostly metric or SAE? > > The Hummer is completely SAE, at least on all "assemblies". Inside > the tranny & diff, prolly SAE, but these parts were bolted on rather > than taken apart. Remember, this is not a "pay 60 grand" hummer, but > rather a built one. So, everything was pretty much SAE. > > > AND will/is your 2000 Fred-mobile gonna be metric or sae or mostly > > which? > > Its a mix. Buick Engine, Audi Transaxle, Corvette Suspension are > their own, (mostly SAE), and all the fabricated stuff lucky enough to > get a fastener will be SAE. > > -- > > Frederic Breitwieser > Bridgeport CT 06606 > > 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental > 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy > 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos > 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:14:44 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: To Todd Fred, am still lookin for the best Mig for the best deal! Haven't found anything less than $200 at a Home Depot.... And that's the el-cheapo 110 v 30% deal! YUK! Will try puttin a fan next to whatever I get, just to be safe!! Thanks for the idea! LATER! Todd... - --------- Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > > > Apologise(sp!) in advance for the interruption, welder duty cycle is > > a ten minute period. 30% gives three minutes of welding to seven minutes > > cool down time. The real duty cycle is typically a taper, like 20% at > > output, to 100% at 1/3 of the max output, or something like that. > > Thanks for the information.. majorly useful!!! > > But I don't get why this stuff has to be so complicated. Put a bigger > fan next to the transformer !! > > Oh well. > > -- > > Frederic Breitwieser > Bridgeport CT 06606 > > 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental > 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy > 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos > 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:16:43 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Prowler V6 Peter, never havin the right socket on the ratchet can be semi remedied by usin METWRENCH!! I may just drop the $200+ for the set!! Later! Todd.... Peter D. Hipson wrote: > > Hummers are mixed metric and SAE. The engine and drivetrain are metric. > Body/frame/fittings are mostly SAE. You *never* have the right socket on > the rachet. > > At 04:28 PM 6/2/99 -0700, you wrote: > >Hey Fred, > > > >Just wonderin, > > > >Is your Hummer mostly metric or SAE? > > > >AND will/is your 2000 Fred-mobile gonna be metric or sae or mostly > >which? > > > >Just wonderinnnnnnn...... > > > >Todd....... > > > >----------- > > > >Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > >> > >> > And seeing as how most of freds rides are American built n all, I'd have > >> > to say that he was REALLY only 3/4 serious... > >> > >> Are you kidding? The Lincoln uses more metric than SAE!!! The 75 > >> Dodge truck is all SAE of course. > >> > >> -- > >> > >> Frederic Breitwieser > >> Bridgeport CT 06606 > >> > >> 1993 Supercharged Lincoln Continental > >> 1989 HWMMV w/turbocharged 500cid Caddy > >> 1975 Dodge D200 Club Cab soon to have 431 stroker + turbos > >> 2000 (I hope) Buick GTP (Mid-Engined Sports Car) > > > > > > > Thanks, > Peter Hipson (founder, NEHOG) > 1995 White NA Hummer Wagon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:19:00 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: Holley Projection 4di help OK, I'll bite, How much does the total Projection 4 barrel version cost anyways, isnt' it like $1,000 and it doesn't sue ANY oem parts that you can replace if any of em break? I was lookin at only port injection, but if the projection is inexpensive nuff and is tunable nuff for 1,000+ hp on a boosted engine, then maybe it's the ticket... Lemme know? Later, Todd.... - --------- Raymond C Drouillard wrote: > > >provided > >me with a program called HONDO - which grabs all the realtime data and > lets > >you review it offline to your heart's content. > > > >I bet nobody would care if I sent you a copy, eh? > > > >I'd be amused if us projection users got to know each other to swap > tuning > >tips, etc... Anyone else running any of the ProJections, be it analog > or > >digital? > > > >-Bill > >Running a 900cfm 4di on a whipped 350 chevy > > I'm running Pro-Jection 4Di on an AMC 360 in my Jeep Grand Wagoneer. No > more floatbowl problems when I decide to "take the hill". > > Ray > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Get the Internet just the way you want it. > Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! > Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 09:26:13 -0700 From: "Todd....!!" Subject: Re: VATN, blowers, etc. GREAT info Jason!, Sounds like ya know a lot! Some of us can learn alot from you as well! Do ya have any web pages explainin in detail some of what ya mentioned? Like the break in tips, etc...? Would lik eto see em if ya do! Thanks for the tips! Later! Todd....!! Jason wrote: > > With this talk about superchargers and turbos running rampant, I'll > throw in my two cents regarding street cars, turbos, and blowers... > > The VATN unit is a good idea, but unfortunately they don't make larger > trim levels. The concept of having a variable exhaust turbine is great, > and the Aerodyne VATN does it very well. Also, the VATN unit is the only > turbo I know of that has a self contained lubrication system. In other > words, the VATN turbo has a fluid reservoir designed to hold a specified > amount of special lubricant...no more oil lines to the pan! Simply > change the fluid in it like you would the oil in the engine. No need to > "tap" the oil or anything like that. Like I said though, the largest > VATN unit will only push about 350hp-400hp though. A little Garrett T03 > can do that. > > Garrett (Allied Signal) also has a special variable geometry exhaust > turbine unit too, although it's not popular in the aftermarket scene. > Probably does more duty in large turbo diesel engines... > > Apples and Oranges alert: I think that a properly selected and > configured turbo will easily outperfom any supercharger, on a street > car. For instance, I've played with the Eaton M60 and Vortech V1 > blowers...and they pale in comparison to a turbo. The Eaton, simply by > its positive displacement design...is decent for low end torque on V6s. > The Vortech V1 unit really doesn't impress me. Doesn't matter if you > stick it on a LT1, or a 302...give me a turbo instead. The linear boost > thing just doesn't cut it, in my book. Parasitic drag that robs hp is > another bummer. Then there's that damn gear driven noise...some love > it...I think maybe I'm too old for that crap now days. It gets old. > Pulling up to every light and just hearing that "whine" can scare some > away. I prefer stealth. Give me my T3/T04E ceramic bearing unit...and > you'll hear a little whistling "whooosh" as I easily run away and hide. > Very nice. > > Upgrade to more power? Well, with a SCer...you're looking at swapping a > pulley. Smaller pulley equals more boost. Boost is limited by rpm, and > it's usually a linear scale. Full boost occurs at max rpm, and it sucks > to be you at 1500 rpm! Ha ha. Turbo? Easy, just dial up the boost. The > age of mechanical boost control is gone. It's all about fuzzy logic > controllers and stepper motors to regulate boost. Extremely repeatable > and reliable. > > The drawbacks? Lots. Turbos produce heat, more than SCers. The air > charge is pretty damn hot, and so is the engine compartment. Turbos > require a few more controllers and gadgets to make things work (blow off > valve, boost controller, wastegate, usually an intercooler). Fuel > ecomomy? BUHAHA!! Regulate your mileage with your right foot. Some seem > to think that the increase in cylinder pressure reduces engine life. I > say it depends on what level of boost you run (and yout static CR), the > quality of the engine internals,type of fuel, the type of forced > induction, the specific model of the blower or turbo, the type of > driving you do, the fuel/ignition mapping, ambient temps, and a slew of > other factors. Knowing a few things about turbos can help you ensure > reliability (don't hammer the car at full boost for twenty seconds, and > then shut the car off without letting things cool down first). With a > Vortech blower, always change the oil every 3k miles or so (turbo too), > using synthetic oil. Always inspect the serpentine drive belt for dry > rot, cracks, and tightness. There are some "break-in" techniques as > well, when the blower or turbo is brand new. Lots of little tips and > tricks that will keep the car on the road, and off the jack stands. > > Anyway, looks like I drifted a little off topic. Bottom line: forced > induction is far superior to displacement for performance and > convenience, let alone economics. Oh yeah, a variable geometry intake > manifold LOVES boost! Some of you guys should try one, or make one. > Enjoy. > > Jason > '93 SLC ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #371 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".