DIY_EFI Digest Saturday, August 28 1999 Volume 04 : Number 493 In this issue: Re:Idiot questions for lazy newby Re: Idiot qestions for lazy newby (merged for ease of skipping) Re: inflictions Chrysler ECM Info Analog Fuel Injection Re: valve spring removal?? keeper/retainer welded together??!?! help See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:34:03 -0700 From: MASON HAYES Subject: Re:Idiot questions for lazy newby Try using a Bosch L-jetronic (if you can have the machining done for multi port FI) or if your confined to a carburater setup use a throttle body FI setup. I think Bosch K and KH are thrrottle body (someone correct me if I'm mistaken) I recommend the bosch of earlier models late 70's to mid 80's because of there simplicity and reasoning. go for the hole package when salvaging. the systems tend to use soft fuel lines (american types use stiff lines) makes it easier for modification. consider EGR and any smog and emissions stuff. more questions just holler. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:03:18 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jon V." Subject: Re: Idiot qestions for lazy newby (merged for ease of skipping) Bill Wrote: > > The engine... oh, screw it. You people will laugh at me anyway, so I > > might as well... The engine is a Lotus 907E. > > Hey, they didn't laugh at my Spider (not out loud anyway), Naw, they just took a look at it on your web page and realized that laughing would just make them look silly. I don't have my car on a web page... FOR GOOD REASON! If I had MY car on a web page, people WOULD laugh! > so I doubt they'll laugh at a Lotus. Worst case you'll have to put up > with some good natured 'Brit' comments. At least you don't have to > listen to the "Fix It Again Tony" cracks :-) That's just it... the car *isn't* a Lotus... and if it *was* it would be "Lots Of Trouble, Usually Serious" or one of the less presentable versions. Only the engine is Lotus... so you can begin to see my shame. > > Just to put the record straight, Lotus used the bottom end of > > exsisting production engines and used their own heads and cams. In the > > case of your engine, it was the Ford (you have my sympathy). But take > > some consolation, the other option was the French Renault. > > If it's a Ford 2L block you should be able to find all the parts you > need without much searching. I think I might start by scrounging an > intake from a 2L Mustang, or maybe just buying an intake gasket, to see > how things line up. It could just be my phenomenal ignorance biting me once again, but I'm not entirely sure that the 907-912 engines really are Fords. I am unaware, and one of the things encompassed by that lack of awareness is any '70s Ford fourbanger that used cylinder liners, for example. * It doesn't really matter though, 'cause the head is VERY different from any Ford I've ever taken a hammer to. Its got one of those seriously practicality-doesn't-matter DOHC setups with the plugs way down in a grotto between the cams, etcetera, and I don't think that anybody else's FI manifolds will bolt on. The nice thing is that the "standard" carbs (aka the carbs that I don't have) are port-on-port, so I might be able to convert one of those manifolds to FI by fitting a plenum etc... but DAMN those manifolds are frigging expensive. I need to revise my previous estimate of $900 to recarb. After checking again that is $1400... with the difference being in the manifold. Anyway, I keep reading, and keep studying, and I'm finding fascinating factoid after factoid... which I love. The wish lists and grand schemes of yesterday look laughable today, and every once in a while I catch a glimpse of something really interesting just over the horizon. How about this question... Does anybody know of a source of throttle plate assemblies for an individual throttle injection type system? Or, almost as good, plans/diagrams? I have access to a CNC milling machine on an "if you'll fix it" basis, and I bet I could fabricate the parts myself if I really needed to... but I'm no machinist and the mill has a blown servo card ($1500 to replace, or probably $1.50 to fix if I took the time to figure out what was wrong), so I would rather not go that route. - -Jon * The story as I understand it is that the older Lotus engine(s) (the "TwinCam" to be specific) were Ford blocks with replacement heads, but Ford was telling lotus that they would stop production of the blocks... so Lotus started development of their own engine, and the result was the 907... which they are still producing in a 2.2L version with EFI and turbo(s) under the 910 or 912 designation. This ain't no Pinto engine, that's for sure. The block is aluminum, the total weight is about 270Lbs for everything in front of the clutch (starter included). You can see a picture of the engine with some VERY optimistic specs (displacement especially) at http://www.caribinfo.com/ukinfo/lotus/engines.html Mine has a snazzy yellow and black paint job, though... > Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 13:41:17 +0100 > From: JMACKENZ@xxx.com > Subject: Re: Idiot qestions for lazy newby > > Is this vehicle a Lotus Sunbeam? Oh no! I've started a guessing game. Nope... the car isn't a Lotus at all... just the engine. - -Jon > Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:39:57 -0700 > From: neilaura@xxx.com > Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #491 > > >Hell, I just celebrated a unique event in my ownership of the car... 500 > >miles of driving and only stranded once! > > You have been conned!!. > It is a physical impossibility for a British car to be reliable for 500 miles. Well... it did leave me stranded once during that period... that's really only 250 miles of between incidents. ... > You have not been shown the "twin trailing boot" brake backup system. > Oops sorry, that's British motorcycles. You actually claim to be British?!?!? I don't THINK so... if you were British you'd know that even the cars have TTB brake backup systems... you just kick through the rust plates (where floorboards go in Japanese cars) and drop leather. > >Anyway, I've had a couple of very interesting responses, and I've > >insulted an entire country, but I still don't have a clue... > > Insults don't work with the British. > Whatever you say about us is quite probably true. (except the sheep rumor) I thought the sheep thing was for N'Zealandies. > Trying to drag this conversation back on topic. I'm so ashamed.... > Is anyone on the list experimenting, developing or just thinking about an > analogue fuel injection system?. AUIGHGGGHGHGHG!!!!!!!!!! I take back my doubts about your Britishness! Lucas has corrupted your sole, and turned you against the light of the electronic age!!! I had an air cooled VW with a mechanical FI system once... it worked very nicely when it worked, and was a PITA when it didn't. (Once failed a CA emissions test with that car... because Nitro measurements were TOO LOW! had to screw it up and have them retest it.) - -Jon And... That's about it... Having so much fun with the conversation I can't even remember if any of my questions have been answered.... prolly not, but who am I to complain... by the way, if the length of this is pissing you off, please, please, please yell at me OFF the list... I don't know how many times I've seen that same mistake made again and again of people bitching about long pointless threads by starting long pointless threads... but maybe that doesn't happen here... Anyway, thanks all, and here's hoping that more (of the right sort of stuff) will come of it! - -Jon - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Feeling Cold? Try pissing into the wind... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:03:12 GMT From: charlesmorris@xxx.com (Charles) Subject: Re: inflictions On Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:00:01 -0400, you wrote: > >Neil (Proudly British, but my deepest apologies for inflicting you with the >Spice Girls) Don't feel that you have to apologize for the Spice Girls; our tastes in many things popular cannot apparently be underestimated. However, an apology for Louise Woodward would be more appropriate... - -Charles Former owner of a '72 MGB. Fun while it ran, which was not often or for long. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 19:14:24 -0400 From: Frederic Breitwieser Subject: Chrysler ECM Info To whoever asked about the chrysler ECM info... I apologize I forgot who asked... http://minimopar.simplenet.com/ecu/index.html - -- Frederic Breitwieser Xephic Technology 769 Sylvan Ave #9 Bridgeport CT 06606 Tele: (203) 372-2707 Fax: (603) 372-1147 Web: http://xephic.dynip.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 19:41:54 -0400 From: "crash70" Subject: Analog Fuel Injection Just throwing this one out there......... How hard would it be to convert a CIS-Lamda frequency valve driver to an analog fuel injection system? The O2 sensor controls the duty cycle. I'm thinking...convert (this is where the big boys come in) a hot-wire sensor to output in Mv. The higher the Mv, the slower the duty cycle. So the signal would need to be inverted. CIS-L boxes are a dime-a-dozen on old VW's and Audis....could be really cheap!! Just thinkin........ Chris Bishop ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:40:22 -0400 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: valve spring removal?? keeper/retainer welded together??!?! help > > Ross Corrigan wrote. > >>and hit on the top of the valve compressor tool itself, pushing the valve > >>down in shots etc........no dice whatsoever, I even oiled it just in case > > Gary replied: > >Ross, what kind of a spring compressor tool are you using? If you are > >using the kind that slides under the spring coil and has a screw on top > >that pushes on the retainer as it pulls on the spring coil I'd try getting > >the lever style. > > yes I"m using the above screw type, it has unparallel length jaws that grab > the spring nicely and seat quite well on top (KD Tools), recc'd by one > local specialty builder but it's not working right now I guess If it's compressing the springs, it's doing it's job. It's not a keeper remover, just a spring compressor. I use the same tool. For locked valve keepers, a socket on the spring retainer and some stout blows with a hammer usually do the trick. Gentle taps would get you a days worth of frustration. > > It slides over the rocker stud and then you put the nut > >on to hold it. Then you swing it over to the top of the retainer and you > >pull on it to push the retainer down. When you have a tough one you can > >put the piston at TDC. When the valve starts to push down it will touch > >the piston then you can pull harder and the retainer will break it loose > >from the keepers. Are you using air to hold the valves up? Lever type compressors can be limited by available engine compartment space. Might want to check for clearance. The tool is usually 10"-12" long. > > Yes, I"m using air to hold the valves up. I can turn down my air comp. > regulator to 50psi or so, so I can push the valve (unseat it) it and put > the piston at TDC so I can possibly 'carefully' use the piston as a brace > on the bottom? >As long as I have the piston near TDC, then if the valve > drops when it separates (given the the valve is unseated the air might not > just seal it right back up Shop air won't lift an open valve. Skip that step to save yourself some time.: ) Shannen ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #493 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".