DIY_EFI Digest Thursday, September 2 1999 Volume 04 : Number 502 In this issue: Re: Lotus engines and bike TB's Re: Lotus engines and bike TB's Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #501 Re: Manual idle control Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #501 Re: Ford ECU connector? Engine CFM See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 13:38:45 +0200 From: Nic van der Walt Subject: Re: Lotus engines and bike TB's >> I got a set of throttle >> bodies + injectors + FI pump for $40. And they are in mint condition. > >See, now THAT is what I consider cheap. I've been trying to find that sort >of deal... I'll need to try harder. Where/how did you get that deal??? I strolled into the local bike wrecker's shop and asked him: "What parts have you got of EFI bikes?". He canned himself and told me a long story that went like this: Once upon a time EFI bikes became a fashion and every speedfreak yuppie bought himself one. Then they all ended up doing one of two things: 1) Crash the bike. 2) Jump start the bike. In the first instance it's easy to see how the nifty bits ended up in a box, but the second is interesting. Seems that most of those brainboxes died easily when jumpstarting from a car.... The dealers couldn't replace them and our enterprizing shopowner started importing aftermarket carbs for those bikes. He claims he exhanged 100's of EFI systems with carbs. Anyway, all those EFI systems are lying in a pile at the back of his shop. Moral: Try you local bike wreckers. Regards, Nic van der Walt - ------------------------------------------------------------ Cellpoint Systems SA http://www.cellpt.co.za GSM Technology for Positioning and Telematics - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:20:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Colin Goodall Subject: Re: Lotus engines and bike TB's > Yeah, I was thinking about it two ways... assuming that my > Internet calculator skills are sufficient to the task, a 2L > engine that redlines at 6.8-7.2K (about where mine does/would) > needs ~23036 CFM to feed it. The 1300, 12KRPM motocycle engine > would need ~26327 CFM (These numbers are pulled from the net, > and I didn't check the assumptions that went into them ... > That was assuming identical volumetric efficiencies, and > I'm not sure that is valid. On many of the large displacement sport bikes they now employ some form of ram- air induction which may very likely throw your assumptions off about flow rates. Colin Goodall goodall@xxx.com P.S. This is my first posting to the mailing list so forgive me if I am out of line ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 06:47:32 -0700 From: neilaura@xxx.com Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #501 A friend was showing me the ECU in his Ford Contour, and it appears to have a connector on the back for something. Anyone know what? If you take off the little connector, there is a card edge there, about 30 pins or so, but I don't know what the pinout is, or what it is supposed to do. Anyone know? jds Just had a look at one of my reference books. It lists a 104 Pin connector for the entire Contour range, nothing else. The pin chart also shows that about 40 of the pins are unused which seems strange. If you can get the numbers off the casing I'll check with one of my friends at the local Ford dealership. Neil ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 09:02:07 -0500 From: DC Smith Subject: Re: Manual idle control Hi Gary, Back in my cable television days, I used a cruise control diaphram off of a chrysler to pull the throttle open a little, when running the bucket on my bucket truck. It was wired to trigger a vacuum solenoid that controlled the cruise diaphram, whenever any of the bucket control switches were activated. This was due to having an engine operated pump running off of a V belt, and would speed the operation of the bucket, upon demand. I could also bypass this for low speed operation in tight quarters. I had this bucket really flyin when I wanted it to. :) > Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 07:33:14 -0600 > From: Gary Moulton > Subject: Manual idle control > > Hi, > I have a 1994 Jeep, 4.0L engine with MOPAR's efi system. I would like to > electrically control the idle for a slower speed and be able to increase > the idle for winching or running my onboard air compressor. Back in my > GM repair days we had a tool that plugged between the IAC and its > harness with a switch that would step the idle up or down, can a > home-brew item like this be built for this type of efi system? > Thanks in advance > GaryM > > ------------------------------ *********************************************************************** Dan Smith 84 Regal 12.03@xxx.45 GSCA# 1459 St.Charles, Missouri mailto:morepoweral@xxx.net http://www.tetranet.net/users/morepoweral *********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:07:29 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #501 See the following responses: Gary Derian > > Yeah, I was thinking about it two ways... assuming that my Internet > calculator skills are sufficient to the task, a 2L engine that redlines at > 6.8-7.2K (about where mine does/would) needs ~23036 CFM to feed it. The > 1300, 12KRPM motocycle engine would need ~26327 CFM (These numbers are I think those cfm numbers are off. If you do the math, you will discover that 140 cfm produces 100 hp. > I think it is the reason most motorcycles don't have 30Lbs flywheels... > they don't need a lot of low end torque, being as light as the are, but a > good top end helps a lot. The individual throttle plates are good for > better air flow (top end) but don't help with torque the way merged > airflow intake systems do. You can merge intake tubes with individual throttles as easily as a single throttle body. You gain response with individual throttles. > > Does the fact that it is an Turbo affect the answers? > > Good question! I don't know, but I would ignorantly guess that it makes > all of the air flow issues for torque irrelevant. Whatever restrictions a > lack of throttle plates would add could be overcome by jumping the boost, > and whatever a long air pipe can do for assuring good air flow at low RPMs > the turbo will do better. A turbo benefits from tuned low restriction flow just as much as a naturally aspirated engine. Making a turbo boost high then restricting the flow causes extra backpressure in the exhaust and extra heat in the intake. > A friend was showing me the ECU in his Ford Contour, and it appears to > have a connector on the back for something. Anyone know what? If you > take off the little connector, there is a card edge there, about 30 pins > or so, but I don't know what the pinout is, or what it is supposed to > do. Anyone know? I just read a Car & Driver article which tested aftermarket chips. They plugged the Contour chip into that edge. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 10:35:21 -0400 From: David Cooley Subject: Re: Ford ECU connector? At 05:00 AM 9/2/1999 -0400, you wrote: >Hi, > >A friend was showing me the ECU in his Ford Contour, and it appears to >have a connector on the back for something. Anyone know what? If you >take off the little connector, there is a card edge there, about 30 pins >or so, but I don't know what the pinout is, or what it is supposed to >do. Anyone know? Yep.. That is called the J3 connector or Service port. It gives you direct access to the address/data bus. Check out : http://www2.austin.cc.tx.us/ESA/tc_eec.htm They have links to EECSUCKA, a device you plug to the J3 port that reads the scrambled internal ford rom, and a J3 adapter. All pinouts etc are there. =========================================================== David Cooley N5XMT Internet: N5XMT@xxx.net Packet: N5XMT@xxx. Member #7068 We are Borg... Prepare to be assimilated! =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:14:04 -0700 From: "John Dammeyer" Subject: Engine CFM >Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:11:20 -0700 (PDT) >From: "Jon V." [snip] >Yeah, I was thinking about it two ways... assuming that my Internet >calculator skills are sufficient to the task, a 2L engine that redlines at >6.8-7.2K (about where mine does/would) needs ~23036 CFM to feed it. The >1300, 12KRPM motocycle engine would need ~26327 CFM (These numbers are >pulled from the net, and I didn't check the assumptions that went into >them... just CID, RPM, and (a high) 95%VE), which sounds like it >is a perfect fit and everything is WONDERFUL and I'm just wishing I could >figure out where I'm gonna find a Suzuki without an owner for long enough >to... um... anyway... I'm trying to find the parts... Hi, These are the types of assumptions that do need checking out, especially if you are sizing injectors. A 2L engine is about 121 cubic inches. for every revolution it has two cylinders that do an intake stroke so it requires 121 / 2 = 60.5 cubic inches of air per engine revolution. This works out to 7200 RPM * 60.5 cubic inches per rev = 435600 cubic inches per minute. With 12^3 cubic inches in a cubic foot we divide into the cubic inches per minute to get 435600/1728 = 252 CFM or 15,120 Cubic Feet per Hour. Quite a different number from ~23036 CFM. Now just work out how how much 15,120 Cubic Feet weighs and you should get how many lbs of fuel required per hour at 100% duty cycle assuming 100% VE. John ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #502 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. 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