DIY_EFI Digest Monday, October 11 1999 Volume 04 : Number 573 In this issue: Re: Up Up and Away Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #572 1227808 Re:Up Up and Away RE: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #572 Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #572 See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 14:45:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Orin Eman Subject: Re: Up Up and Away > Note how I completely left out the throttle position. It may be that > at 15,000 feet ASL the WOT pressure will be only 70 kPa. If the engine > is at 3000 rpm and the air temp is the same the Volumetric efficiency > of the engine is the same. What about effects on exhaust back pressure caused by lower barometric... I'd think it would reduce the residual pressure in the cylinder at the end of the exhaust stroke, allowing more air in for a given MAP. Orin. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 20:11:05 EDT From: ECMnut@xxx.com Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #572 Does the Holley system also control the spark curve? Fuel management is just one of the fucnctions in the Holley system that I'm familiar with.. (4di?) There are significant strengths on the spark management side that would be hard to accomplish with points and advance weights.... Mike V > In theory (dons flame proof jacket) Carbs can be every bit as good as fuel > injection. It is just that carbs have a little bit of an art to setting > them up. FI you just plug a lap top in and correct what needs correcting > Like that. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 10:46:14 +1000 From: "Warwick Anderson" Subject: 1227808 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BF13D5.D6FB04C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i can get a delco 1227808 and think theres a old kit just down the road = for a eprom programer thing=20 is this what i need to reprogram the delco to run a toyota motor? thanx - ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BF13D5.D6FB04C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

i can get a delco 1227808 and think theres a old kit = just down=20 the road for a eprom programer thing

is this what i need to reprogram the delco to run a = toyota=20 motor?

thanx

- ------=_NextPart_000_002A_01BF13D5.D6FB04C0-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 17:52:35 PDT From: "Bill the arcstarter" Subject: Re:Up Up and Away Phil Lamovie wrote: >The very simple point to be had here is that next time the same air >temp and pressure are found at the same rpm then the same stored >values for fuel and spark will of course produce the same A/F ratio. Thats how I see it. >Note how I completely left out the throttle position. It may be that >at 15,000 feet ASL the WOT pressure will be only 70 kPa. If the engine is >at 3000 rpm and the air temp is the same the Volumetric efficiency of the >engine is the same. For systems equipped with either mass air flow or MAP, my understanding is that the TPS is only used for limp-home mode, determination of WOT vs run vs idle states, and enrichment/leanment during rapid transitions. >Please note the total lack of Patents for Altitude correction of >aircraft fuel injection computers. Also total lack of altitude sensors on >all Ford and GM vehicles. I suppose they don't have mountains in the USA. Hmm. Could the O2 sensor closed loop operation account for this? Or - altitude could be faked out by reading the MAP while the engine is stopped. Then you could account for it. Of course this assumes that the car is stopped every once in awhile (probbaly a reasonable thing). I know for a fact that some outboard marine engine controllers do this. - -Bill '84 Suburban w/ 350 w/ Holley-4Di ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 09:03:54 +0100 From: "Rich M" Subject: RE: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #572 Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 14:23:19 +0100 From: Ade + Lamb Chop Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #570 At 15:00 09/10/99 -0400, DIY_EFI Digest wrote: >>Don't lose sight of the big problem with mini's - siamesed ports! For those >>not so familiar, the head has two inlet ports which each split in two to >>feed two inlet valves; Cyls 1&2 are fed by one inlet tract and cyls 3&4 fed >>from the second. Throw the firing order into the equation, and you will >>appreciate the problem of mixture distribution, specially from a throttle >>body injection arrangement. for this reason, Mini's run with uneven mixture >>across the cylinders even with carbs that feed fuel into the airstream >>continuously. Consider what happens when you inject pulses of fuel into the >>airflow way back at the throttle body, synchronous with the engine cycle. >>This is why I believe some (if not all) TBi sytems inject 'asynchronously' >>(randomly?). Certainly Vauxhall/Opel Multec TBI systems inject 5 pulses per >>cycle to try and spread out the uneven distribution so that each cylinder >>gets a fighting chance of seeing reasonable mixture on average. >Carbs manage it acceptably I was thinking of just streaming fuel in the >same way carbs do. After all Tbi is just a carb with an injector controled >by a processor rather than 'machincal means' Ade, The point I was trying to make (and it's pretty significant), is that you can't 'continuosly stream' from a TBI injector, it's either on or off, it squirts defined amounts of fuel at predefined intervals. Theoretically, you could turn on and off a lot more times in the engine cycle to approach the carb 'model', but I think if you use a big enough injector to cope with high load flow, you'd run into calibration problems at low speed because of the short 'on' period. I've been trying to confirm if Rover use the same principle as GM, ie. asynchronous injection - no answer yet.... ps. take your point about Arden/KAD heads; just covering myself in case I was up the wrong tree. Rich. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 16:49:57 +0800 From: "Vinny Jaeger" Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #572 Date: Monday, (10/11/1999 for those in US) From: Ken Thompson kent@xxx.au Subject: 1. Free CAD drawing package. 2. More O2 for that altitude fire. "Phil + John" 3. Engine breathing and air flow in general. 4. Windows 2000 warning. Hello All, ******************* FREE CAD *************************** "PC Authority Magazine" (Australia) www.pcauthority.com.au gave away a full copy of TurboCAD version 5 in the June 99 issue. The magazine costs $5.95 ($3.80 US?) and for $6.00 US a swag of extra libraries can be purchased from the manufacturer. PC Authority do provide back issues, so it is still available. I did not go for the extra libraries because we use DesignCAD www.designcad.com Our neighbour in the next building over has been using TurboCAD since this freebie came along and they reckon that it is pretty good. Another associate just paid $6,500.00 AU or so for AutoCAD and I really can't see the value. Our DesignCAD Pro 2000, does more with less clicks than I see AutoCAD being able to do. *************** More O2 please ****************************** 33 foot propellers? That must be one big mother of an aircraft? But 650 hp doesn't sound like enough to drive even the starter motor of such a monster. ONLY JOKING! That 10,058 mm prop must be part of your test stand, or your pilot must sit about 22 feet off the ground in his / her cock pit? I have seen many systems where engines are mounted on platforms, but surely 30 feet above sea level is not much of an altitude simulation? I guess a good reason for using a 30 foot tower, is that "it was already there" and you did not have to build it, or better still, pay for it.? I would have thought that testing a little closer to ground zero would have been more convenient, given the torque / speed envelope available at the crank? or gearbox? I can think of easier ways to do that job. But if the tower was already there and you did not have to pay for the tower / props etc, then the solution used was quite fine. Come on Phil, you have got me tuned. You have wet my appetite with a small volume of data attached to a tall prop story. A 30 foot centre height with an extra 16 foot 6 six inches above that, to the blade tip. Watch out all you low flying black birds, Momma Mixmaster is coming to get you! WHY 33 FOOT PROPS? Between yourself, Foetinger, Carl Schenk and Froude, there must have been a prettier way? The subject that is being tugged at here, won't be turned into truth by personal opinion. An over night calculation won't hold up. There are enough papers available on this subject, if used in an open fire, to warm a home in Antarctica for the next 10,000 years. A friend, Ray Hall www.turbofast.com.au knows all about the effects of altitude on internal combustion engines. Rays firm fits turbo chargers, intercoolers, aneroids etc to new commercial diesel Toyota Landcruisers, which are then exported to Indonesia, for the sole purpose of carrying gear, parts, men etc from sea level, up the side of a 15,000 foot mountain. This is real mountain goat stuff. Last time I looked, Ray had some interesting data on his site on this altitude question. TURBOFAST also builds 1500 HP race boats that have won most races they have entered, including US and European races. Check it out for yourself. *************** Any decent dynamometer data system will correct for Temperature (I like transducer in the manifold = MAT), barometric pressure and of course humidity. We do not directly worry whether testing is carried out on top of Everest or below sea level at the bottom of the Kalgoorlie Super Pit. Knowing the test cell air temperature is great, but knowing MAT is better. Your lecturers will refer you to the right papers, or the SAE data base is the place to start when seeking good data on this subject. ************* Engine Breathing and Wave Action ********************** Go to ftp://ftp.superflow.com.au and download "Dynomation.ZIP". Then print the users manual. There you will find a reference on wave action / induction tuning, that will most assuredly help (us) all to better understand engine breathing. Can also be downloaded at www.audietech.com On the FTP site there is also an interesting program called "SpringMaster" which is designed to reveal the RPM at which springs will surge and valves will bounce. ***************** Windows Warning ************************** We Australians have it, you Americans are soon to get it. When one buys a Win2000 product here, it comes with a time bomb. After installation, one is permitted to fire up one's own software but 50 times, then over it falls. The cure for this circus is to log on to the Microsoft site and press the "register now" icon within the new program that you have just paid dearly for. You see Bill wants to take a good look at your registry (I guess)? This is a question and NOT a statement as you can see. If we Aussies go like sheep to the slaughter, without objection, then you all best get ready for some of what we've got. ******************** Our Reply to Billy Boy********************* We have "Red Hat version 6", running on one workstation and "freeBSD" on a server. I have just ordered a free SUN SOLARIS operating system (for Intel). www.sun.com/solaris/freesolaris.html and will soon start testing the FREE "Star Office" office suite, which is also sourced from SUN. It appears as though, STAR will do all that Microsoft can do, but at very much "the right price". Soon we will no longer have to put up with Bill and his bull. When interfacing a PC to a remote logger / control system via TCP/IP, who cares what operating system is used? So long as it is reliable and fast! Regards, Ken. Superflow Engineering is located within the Commonwealth of Australia, we have no relationships with any foreign companies. > Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 00:50:01 +1000 > From: Phil Lamovie > Subject: Re:Up Up and Away > > Hi John et al, ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #573 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".