DIY_EFI Digest Tuesday, October 12 1999 Volume 04 : Number 576 In this issue: Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:53:46 +1000 98 Golf TDI MAF sensor RE: How simple... Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #575 Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #575 Re: marine engine FI See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:53:46 +1000 From: "Warwick Anderson" Subject: Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:53:46 +1000 found that html switch sorry bout that ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:06:09 -0400 From: David Rhoads Subject: 98 Golf TDI MAF sensor I was given a left over from someone elses car project. It is a MAF sensor from a '98 VW Golf TDI MAF sensor and engine harness, it's never been used. I would like to use this to measure mass air flow rate on another small engine but have had trouble finding a pinout and signal discription for it. I have access to a flow bench so that I can map out the signal/air flow to understand what I'm seeing when I hook it up to the engines air intake. Can any of you help me out? There are 4 wires coming from it and the colors are: light blue light blue with brown stripe yellow with black stripe purple with red stripe The 2 blue wires are twisted together. Could these be the signal wires? What kind of signal, pulse or analog? I'm tempted to think the yellow/blk is ground and the purple/red is power, but would power be Vbat or 5V? Any help would be greatly appreciated. - -- . David Rhoads II . Applied Dynamics International . 3800 Stone School Road, Ann Arbor, Mi 48108 . (734) 973-1300 . rhoads@xxx.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 13:36:05 +0100 From: "Rich M" Subject: RE: How simple... >FWIW the rover mini system is a MEMS system... >what ever that means. "Modular Engine Management System". In principle the same ECU is fitted to every post-Lucas era 'MEMS' controlled Rover engined vehicle model (Honda engined versions use Jap electronics); that includes Mini, 200, 400, 600(turbo only) 800 and MGF. There obviously need to be variations due to engine spec - capacity, TBI or multi-point inj., ignition type - distributor or distributorless, turbo or nat-asp., etc. This is where the 'Modular' bit comes in; the ECU is fundamentally based on the same internals with various different hardware configurations and programs to accomodate the different sensors and actuators required for each individual application. You will come across a few different 'version' designators; eg. MEMS1.3, MEMS1.6, MEMS1.9 which roughly segregate the applications. All MEMS systems use as a minimum the following sensors: Crank position Coolant temperature MAP Throttle position Inlet Air temperature Additional sensors , depending on application, include: Knock Cam position (for Distributorless ignition) Lambda (post-1992 catalyst vehicles) Fuel rail temperature All MEMS systems control ignition, either single coil or distributorless. All systems use a stepper motor controlled throttle stop for idle speed control. Hope this is of interest. Rich ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 07:24:38 -0700 From: Laura & Neil Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #575 > Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 19:21:01 -0400 > From: "crash70" > Subject: MAP Sensors & Pushrods > > With all this talk of MAP sensors, I have to ask the question: What is the > best way of measuring incoming air on an engine? Flap doors are obviously a > huge restriction. Hot wire and film sensors seem like a good method, but > MAPs are TOTALLY unobtrusive on the intake system. > > I've noticed that the majority of American cars use MAP sensors, as well as > newer Hondas. European manufacturers seem to favor the film or wire sensor. > Is it an economic issue, like the American resistance to ditch pushrods? > > I think it is a matter of cost. Yesterday I daignosed a 91 Plymouth Laser with a 2.0 turbo motor as having a bad MAF sensor. (Real errratic idle untill the MAF was disconnected forcing the computer to use the default setting, ran perfectly at idle with the MAF disconnected). The MAF is a dealer item only at $670!!. The average MAP is about $50 retail. > > Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 00:50:01 +1000 > > From: Phil Lamovie > > Subject: Re:Up Up and Away > > > > > > > > There is absolutely no need to calculate the mass of the atmosphere on > > Earth and then divide that by the ratio of volume of inlet manifold. > > Though it would work. > > > > Please note the total lack of Patents for Altitude correction of > > aircraft fuel injection computers. Also total lack of altitude sensors > > on all Ford and GM vehicles. I suppose they don't have mountains in > > the > > USA. > > Surely engine vacuum is relative to the ambient atmospheric pressure. And as the MAP sensor is vented to atmosphere it will have a fair degree of self correction for altitude. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 10:37:53 -0700 From: Will McGonegal Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V4 #575 > Outboard engines are FI???? Wow!! Things have changed in the past 5 years. > Why would they do this? > But why on a small outboard engine?Coments? > > Ade How about emissions regulations. Fish have a right to clean water too! Two strokes puke out a lot of nasty pollutants. Will McGonegal Project Engineer/Dynamometer Developer Emissions Research and Measurement Division Environment Canada ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:38:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Stuart Hastings Subject: Re: marine engine FI > At 05:00 11/10/99 -0400, DIY_EFI Digest wrote: > >Or - altitude could be faked out by reading the MAP while the engine is > >stopped. Then you could account for it. Of course this assumes that the > >car is stopped every once in awhile (probbaly a reasonable thing). I know > >for a fact that some outboard marine engine controllers do this. Marine FI can probably get away with this, unless you run your boat down (or up) the side of a mountain with the engine running. "Over the falls," perhaps :-) ? > Outboard engines are FI???? Wow!! Things have changed in the past 5 years. > Why would they do this? Manufacturers are still putting ECUs in the engine > bay of cars. This is a pretty nasty place for electronics. I can see the > reason for putting FI in cars as it improves fuel ecconomy and power along > with controling the fuel so that it doesn't clog the CAT. But why on a > small outboard engine? Surely you would want to keep the thing as simple as > possible using NO electronics as Sea water isn't electronics freindly by > any means. Marine two-stroke engines have aroused the Federal EPA, and they're on a ten-year program of gradually tightening emissions through 2006. EPA looked at off-road engines, and decided that marine engines were the next logical target. They catagorized marine engines as diesel, two-cycle, and four-cycle. I didn't pay attention to what they did about diesels (probably nothing at this time). However, they noticed that carbureted two-cycle engines passed 25-30% of their fuel directly out their exhaust. The technology employed to fix this is DFI; injecting fuel directly into the cylinder, after the piston has risen enough to close the exhaust port. Mercury uses a system they licensed from Orbital (of Australia), OMC bought a company named Ficht (of Germany), and Yamaha has developed their own. As I recall, Ficht uses a special injector that develops about 450psi, Orbital uses ~90psi mixed with a blast of compressed air, and Yamaha uses ~700psi. There are some explanatory websites: www.mercurymarine.com www.orbeng.com.au www.omc-online.com I haven't looked at Yamaha's web site; they may not have a writeup yet, as I don't think they've shipped yet. Curiously, while DFI reduces oil consumption, it doesn't really address the oil-emission question. Apparently EPA agrees this is not a major pollution issue at this time. Manufactures are quick to tout the reduced fuel consumption of DFI, and many satisfied customers agree it's real. EPA has purposely avoided any smog regulations for four-stroke marine engines, with the expressed intent of encouraging their use. Since the existing marinized car engines were emitting about 25% of the smog (measured in grams/kW/hour) of carbureted two-strokes, this sort of makes sense. As I understand it, a 2006-compliant two-stroke is almost as clean as an unregulated 4bbl SBC, neglecting the oil issue. Since DFI is expensive, and the law requires a gradual cleanup, large marine engines (>100HP) are being converted one-at-a-time to DFI, and smaller engines to four-stroke. Marine two-stroke ECUs seem to be relatively up-to-date, with proprietary laptop connections and flash memories. The wild card is the California Air Resources Board. They've enacted much stricter standards than the Federal EPA, and no two-cycle manufacturer has agreed to meet them yet. stuart hastings ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V4 #576 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".