DIY_EFI Digest Wednesday, January 26 2000 Volume 05 : Number 039 In this issue: Fw: Water injection (tech refs) Greddy air-fuel ratio meter Re: Greddy air-fuel ratio meter Injector Info Re: Injector Info Archives EDIS Coil Pack generic software See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:11:22 -0500 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Fw: Water injection (tech refs) >From another list, just thought some folks might like to get the real info., about H2O injection. Personally, the Harry Ricardo book had enough detail to satisfy me.... Bruce | > If you try to cool compressed air by injecting water, you | > are cooling the intake but displacing oxygen molecules with | > water molecules. Does this actually result in a net | > increase in oxygen for combustion? I would inject the | > water into the intake ports to get liquid water into the | > combustion chamber, not water vapor. | The main purpose of water injection is to avoid detonation, | which allows for more spark advance and/or more boost. But | water injection can also improve volumetric efficiency, so | yes there is actually a net increase in oxygen (up to a | certain rate of water injection, approx 50% to 100% of fuel). | From: | OK, here are my references on water injection: IThere is some really nice water injection data in A. R. Rogowski's | textbook "Elements of Internal Combustion Engines", McGraw-Hill, 1953, | ISBN 07-053575-2, pages 106-109 (unfortunately out of print last time I | checked). He shows 50% improvement in detonation-limited IMEP (basically | torque) at stoichiometry, and 28% under more typical fuel-rich conditions, | using water flow at 50% of fuel flow. He showed that you get about 2/3 of | the benefit using water flow at 25% of fuel flow. It's not clear from the | text, but I think these benefits were from increasing boost. The data is | referenced from Rowe and Ladd, Journal of the SAE volume 54, no. 1, Jan. | 1946, which is more widely available than the textbook. | | SAE paper 690018 "Inlet manifold water injection for control of nitrogen | oxides - theory and experiment", by Nicholls, El-Messiri, and Newhall, | 1969. Mostly part throttle, but does show 12% benefit in max torque with | water flow at 50% of fuel flow (naturally aspirated). [Oops, that was | model results, actual data showed much less benefit.] | | A good history and practical tips are available in "Turbochargers" by Hugh | MacInnes, HPBooks (a division of Price Stern Sloan Inc.), 1984. | | Sir Harry Ricardo did extensive experiments with water injection in the | 1920's, which are described in his textbook "The High-Speed Internal | Combustion Engine", 1958, pages 36-40. He concluded that water injection | enabled a compression ratio increase from 4:1 to 5:1 with very low octane | fuel, for about 10% fuel economy improvement. | | Water injection is rather briefly described in the classic textbook by | Charles F. Taylor "The Internal-Combustion Engine in Theory and Practice" | (1968, 1985) Volume 2, page 70. He recommends water flow at 50% of fuel | flow. | | There is quite a literature on water injection for piston aircraft engines | from the 1940's, but they are not widely available. Some examples are | Rothrock et al., "The induction of water to the inlet air as a means of | internal cooling in aircraft-engine cylinders", NACA TR 756, 1943; and | Bellman and Evvard "Knock-limited performance of several internal | coolants", NACA TR 812 (ARR), 1945. Note that NACA was the precursor to | NASA. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 14:31:12 -0500 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Greddy air-fuel ratio meter Almost looks good, anyone have any details about the 4 wire Toyota O2 sensor, the tech guy at greddy's said it can read 18-8:1, but not to be used for initial tuning????. They want $300, for theirs. Grumpy - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:08:37 -0700 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Greddy air-fuel ratio meter >Almost looks good, anyone have any details about the 4 wire Toyota O2 >sensor, the tech guy at greddy's said it can read 18-8:1, but not to be used >for initial tuning????. >They want $300, for theirs. >Grumpy Sounds like it must be the Bosch sensor--that one uses four wires--anybody know for sure?? Greg > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) >in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 18:24:25 -0500 From: "Peacock, Kenneth" Subject: Injector Info I have a 1988 firebird with the 2.8 MPFI V6 with 5 leaky injectors GM casting # 5235210 Any idea how many LB's per hour these are ? I have a set (8) of 5235211 19lb 305 injectors, possibly a substitute? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 15:43:59 -0800 From: Ludis Langens Subject: Re: Injector Info "Peacock, Kenneth" wrote: > > I have a 1988 firebird with the 2.8 MPFI V6 with 5 leaky injectors GM > casting # 5235210 > > Any idea how many LB's per hour these are ? Probably 15's. - -- Ludis Langens ludis (at) cruzers (dot) com Mac, Fiero, & engine controller goodies: http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/ - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 18:10:08 -0600 From: "Robert W. Hughes" Subject: Archives There are a pair of files on incoming for now called GM_ECMArchives.zip and GoodDIY_EFIArchives.zip. These are the referenced archives with headers and quotes (as indicated by > or|) removed. There is a separator between each message "-<><>....." and a three line header: $Date: date information $Subject: subject information $From: sender - -- Robert W. Hughes (Bob) BackYard Engineering 29:40.237N, 95:28.726W Houston, Texas rwhughe@xxx.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 23:20:53 -0300 From: "Diego Martin Monteverde" Subject: EDIS Coil Pack To the list, How does the "EDIS Coil Pack" work? Thanks Martin - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 00:51:58 -0300 From: "Diego Martin Monteverde" Subject: generic software Hello, I'm wondering if there is in the diy_efi ftp server any free generic software able to show/graph the contents of an EPROM. If somebody knows, thanks in advance Martin - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V5 #39 **************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".