DIY_EFI Digest Sunday, January 30 2000 Volume 05 : Number 044 In this issue: Re: GM 4-pin module connections? Re: Non-Cam Valves Apologies.... Re: Non-Cam Valves Re: Electro-magnetic valves Re: Electro-magnetic valves Re: Electro valves Re: Electro valves Re: Electro valves boost controller project See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:53:27 -0600 From: "Robert W. Hughes" Subject: Re: GM 4-pin module connections? > The large 2 on the one side are power, and coil ground, the two = > smaller pins are for the pick up Grumpy > > > Can anyone tell me which pins of a GM 4-pin HEI ignition module = > connect to coil and which to the trigger? =20 And don't forget, the case goes to ground - -- Robert W. Hughes (Bob) BackYard Engineering 29:40.237N, 95:28.726W Houston, Texas rwhughe@xxx.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:00:57 -0600 From: "Robert W. Hughes" Subject: Re: Non-Cam Valves The exhaust valve is also a special problem. The pressure in the cylinder when the exhaust valve needs to open is in the area of 300-1500psi. A dinky 1.5in exhaust valve has a surface area of 1.75 sq in so even at 300 psi you need a minimum of 523 pounds force to open the valve. Bigger valves and earlier opening just make it worse. - -- Robert W. Hughes (Bob) BackYard Engineering 29:40.237N, 95:28.726W Houston, Texas rwhughe@xxx.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:06:33 -0500 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Apologies.... I forwarded the digest to myself, and misspelled my own name. Primitive isp software bounced it back to the list. Sorry to subject everyone to the reruns. Shannen - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:30:53 -0700 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Non-Cam Valves >The exhaust valve is also a special problem. The pressure in the >cylinder when the exhaust valve needs to open is in the area of >300-1500psi. A dinky 1.5in exhaust valve has a surface area of 1.75 sq >in so even at 300 psi you need a minimum of 523 pounds force to open the >valve. Bigger valves and earlier opening just make it worse. Good concept Bob, but pretty high with the pressure numbers. Residual pressurein the cylinders ranges from 50--90 psi at the EO event in an NA engine, depending on expansion ratio and cam timing. Proportionally higher in a boosted motor. Regards, Greg >-- >Robert W. Hughes (Bob) >BackYard Engineering >29:40.237N, 95:28.726W >Houston, Texas >rwhughe@xxx.net >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) >in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 19:16:06 +0000 From: Ade + Lamb Chop Subject: Re: Electro-magnetic valves At 16:51 28/01/00 +0200, Carlo Putter wrote: >Has anybody ever had an idea to manufacture a cam less machine. Well I've >got that dream, maybe somebody has tried it already. > >Here is my idea: >Used normal valves with light springs. The valves can be closed and opened >by electro-magnetic coils on it. This would then give the option to the >engine tuner to design a infinitely variable camshaft! But this would only >be day-dreaming until any-body tries it. I haven't got any metal work tools, >but have some power-electronics experience. > >The internal combustion engine, as we know it was develop about a century >ago, so why can't it be changed? > >Any ideas, maybe I am way off track. It is a great Idea... It could be fun... std cam at idle then open it up to give you a 10K revs limit :-) Problem is that valves are reletivly heavy and the times involved VERY small... Have done some maths yet? Ade - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 19:16:06 +0000 From: Ade + Lamb Chop Subject: Re: Electro-magnetic valves At 16:51 28/01/00 +0200, Carlo Putter wrote: >Has anybody ever had an idea to manufacture a cam less machine. Well I've >got that dream, maybe somebody has tried it already. > >Here is my idea: >Used normal valves with light springs. The valves can be closed and opened >by electro-magnetic coils on it. This would then give the option to the >engine tuner to design a infinitely variable camshaft! But this would only >be day-dreaming until any-body tries it. I haven't got any metal work tools, >but have some power-electronics experience. > >The internal combustion engine, as we know it was develop about a century >ago, so why can't it be changed? > >Any ideas, maybe I am way off track. It is a great Idea... It could be fun... std cam at idle then open it up to give you a 10K revs limit :-) Problem is that valves are reletivly heavy and the times involved VERY small... Have done some maths yet? Ade - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 16:18:10 -0800 (PST) From: Carter Shore Subject: Re: Electro valves As stated, the acceleration vs valve mass is the fundamental limitation. But as an alternative to the simple open/shut solenoid strategy (as long as we are wishing), why not servo-valves? Servo-valves under ECU control would allow control over every aspect of the intake and exhaust function. Control of not just valve timing, rate, and duration, but lift as well. Implement any camshaft 'grind' by manipulating valve opening characteristics. No camshaft, drive, followers, lifters. The throttle would not be needed. For idle just open valves minimally to admit enough mixture, for WOT use whatever gives best VE for that combination of RPM, temp, load, etc. Could allow very flexible engine management for economy by shutting down cylinders not needed (remember the Caddy V-4-6-8), perhaps rotating the working power cycles amongst them. Obvious benefits include power, rev limits, fuel economy, emissions. The F1 teams are/were reportedly using very high pressure nitrogen gas (from an on-board storage tank) to actuate the valves. This eliminates springs, keepers, followers, etc. A servo-valve system could be implemented that uses solenoids to control the high pressure nitrogen gas. Cannot visualize this system for street use. But perhaps high pressure hydraulic technology could replace the nitrogen gas for < 8,000 RPM use. You can get 2,000 PSI hardware anywhere. I tried some trial calculations to confirm that it was not flatly impossible, but do not know enough hydraulic theory or practice to get meaningful results of max acceleration, rate, sizing, etc. Just another job for our trusty ECU's to handle. But how would you implement a 'limp-home' strategy? Lot's of eggs in one very complicated basket. Thoughts anyone? Carter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 19:41:53 -0500 From: "Bruce Plecan" Subject: Re: Electro valves | The F1 teams are/were reportedly using very high | pressure nitrogen gas (from an on-board storage tank) | to actuate the valves. This eliminates springs, | keepers, followers, etc. I've heard they still use valve springs, but only to hold things together when the engine isn't running. The oil splash is enough to "seal" the cam follower buckets. There is a fixed volume of gas (assuming no leakage) but the follow of gas has to be almost instantaneous, from area to area (way hydralics won't work on even low rpm engines). | | A servo-valve system could be implemented that uses | solenoids to control the high pressure nitrogen gas. If you mean to totally eliminate the cam?. Would take a Cray to do that, and solenoids from the dilithuim chamber. | Cannot visualize this system for street use. But | perhaps high pressure hydraulic technology could | replace the nitrogen gas for < 8,000 RPM use. You can | get 2,000 PSI hardware anywhere. I tried some trial | calculations to confirm that it was not flatly | impossible, but do not know enough hydraulic theory or | practice to get meaningful results of max | acceleration, rate, sizing, etc. | Just another job for our trusty ECU's to handle. But | how would you implement a 'limp-home' strategy? Lot's | of eggs in one very complicated basket. | Thoughts anyone? I remember when baskets, just one day a year, had eggs in them. Those were the days Grumpy | | Carter | | __________________________________________________ | Do You Yahoo!? | Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. | http://im.yahoo.com | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- | To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) | in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org | - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 17:46:07 -0700 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Electro valves >The F1 teams are/were reportedly using very high >pressure nitrogen gas (from an on-board storage tank) >to actuate the valves. This eliminates springs, >keepers, followers, etc. > The F 1 engines are using high pressure gas in place of valve springs, that is all. Your theory is fine, the practice would be problematic! As I said the other day, you are looking at at least 500 g's of valve acceleration. Greg - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:11:59 +0800 From: "Paul Smith" Subject: boost controller project I Have had a look around, and have seen a lot of stuff about boost controllers but have not been able to find a kit (diy) out there..:< Does anyone have or know of a project kit or circuit diagram of a boost controller??? thanks Paul - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V5 #44 **************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. 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