DIY_EFI Digest Monday, January 31 2000 Volume 05 : Number 046 In this issue: Re: Non-Cam Valves Re: Electro valves Re: Electro valves Re: Electro valves Re: boost controller project Re: Non-Cam Valves Re: Water Injection See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 19:42:36 +0000 From: Ade + Lamb Chop Subject: Re: Non-Cam Valves At 09:56 30/01/00 EST, ECMnut@xxx.com wrote: >In a message dated 1/30/00 9:53:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, >nacelp@xxx.net writes: > >> 7 or 8 secs., am or pm. >Is this one of those "depends on how close the sun youe are" >formulas? >Let's turbo the mini ! It is enough too see off the vast majority of cars in the UK. Top end is about 110mph but that is most due to aerodynamics... It is pretty damb good for a car that was designed in the 50s!! Best of all unlike the hulking great things you guys in the states have it goes rounds corners!! :-) There was a turbo A series engine (fitted to metros and ERA mini turbos (they only make 600 ERA minis) but the gearbox falls apart with more than 100lb/ft of torque. They controlled the boost, 4 to 7.5psi to give a constant 85lb/ft of torque. If I had a spare 700ukp lying around I could make it withstand 125lb/ft of torque... This gives about 1400bhp and will do 60 in about 5.5 to 6 secs. Unfortunatly an engine built to take this sort of power would cost 2 or 3 thousand ukp. The other problem is that the gearbox would be straight cut and bloody noisy! Sorry for the off topic stuff, Ade - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 19:42:21 +0000 From: Ade + Lamb Chop Subject: Re: Electro valves At 16:18 29/01/00 -0800, Carter Shore wrote: >Just another job for our trusty ECU's to handle. But >how would you implement a 'limp-home' strategy? Lot's >of eggs in one very complicated basket. As part of the ecconomy shutting down cylinders you could have 2 ECUs to control each half of the engine. This way if one dies you still have half an engine. :-) or you could have a second little (1 litre/80bhp for the UK 8 litre 80bhp for the US) engine that had a carb and distributer if the ECU died... Bit difficult for a mini as there is hardly enough room for one engine!! Ade - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 19:45:59 +0000 From: Ade + Lamb Chop Subject: Re: Electro valves At 17:46 29/01/00 -0700, Greg Hermann wrote: > >>The F1 teams are/were reportedly using very high >>pressure nitrogen gas (from an on-board storage tank) >>to actuate the valves. This eliminates springs, >>keepers, followers, etc. >> >The F 1 engines are using high pressure gas in place of valve springs, that >is all. Suppose they reduce the pressure of the gas at lower RPMs to reduce the load (power wastage) on the valve drive train? Ade - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 19:45:59 +0000 From: Ade + Lamb Chop Subject: Re: Electro valves At 17:46 29/01/00 -0700, Greg Hermann wrote: > >>The F1 teams are/were reportedly using very high >>pressure nitrogen gas (from an on-board storage tank) >>to actuate the valves. This eliminates springs, >>keepers, followers, etc. >> >The F 1 engines are using high pressure gas in place of valve springs, that >is all. Suppose they reduce the pressure of the gas at lower RPMs to reduce the load (power wastage) on the valve drive train? Ade - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 19:55:46 +0000 From: Ade + Lamb Chop Subject: Re: boost controller project At 22:11 30/01/00 +0800, you wrote: >I Have had a look around, and have seen a lot of stuff about boost >controllers but have not been able to find a kit (diy) out there..:< > >Does anyone have or know of a project kit or circuit diagram of a boost >controller??? No but I have another question. The Metro turbo (turbo'd British Leyland A series) It has modulated boost if anybody has any details on the workings of it I would be interested to hear about it. Thanx, Ade - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 04:39:53 -0800 (PST) From: Carter Shore Subject: Re: Non-Cam Valves Oooh, Yes, we can eliminate the valves and spark plugs altogether! Just use a pair of on board matter transmitters (ala Star Trek), and materialize the air and fuel from the tank (in stoic proportion of course) directly into the combustion chambers. Then just fire the phasers to ignite the mixture! Of course, you'd have to replace your DieHard with dilithium crystals to power this stuff. (Sorry, my last post on this I promise :) Actually, I've wondered about all of the 'poppet valve alternatives' mentioned, and few others too. But look how long it took the Toyo-Kogyo engineers to nail down the Wankel tip seal problems. Not impossible to do these things, but takes a lot of R&D time and $$$. If someone can make one of these schemes work, my hat's off to them. Lot's of folks have succeeded where others have said 'that won't work'. But it's not easy. Carter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 04:40:33 -0800 (PST) From: Roy Subject: Re: Water Injection Hi all Have been reading a lot about water injection and how it reduces detonation. To run high boost I think water injection is the way to go, but as stated it must be in atomised form and not produce steam. So where is the best place to inject it and just one injector or one per cylinder ? Before or after the turbo ? If after the turbo would it be best before or after the fuel injectors ? from Roy (Spectric's Ltd) - --- DIY_EFI Digest wrote: > > DIY_EFI Digest Sunday, January 30 2000 > Volume 05 : Number 045 > > > > In this issue: > > Re: Non-Cam Valves > Re: Non-Cam Valves > Re: Non-Cam Valves > Re: Non-Cam Valves > RE: boost controller project/Introduction > Re: Non-Cam Valves > Re: Non-Cam Valves > Re: boost controller project/Introduction > Camless Cylinder Head > Alternative to O2 injection, EGR? (Re: DIY_EFI > Digest V5 #34) > Re: Alternative to O2 injection, EGR? (Re: DIY_EFI > Digest V5 #34) > Re: Non-Cam Valves > camless engine > Re: Electro valves > Re: camless engine > Valves / Variable Timing > Re: Non-Cam Valves > efi for triumph motor cycle(1969,750cc based > special) > Re: Non-Cam Valves > Re: efi for triumph motor cycle(1969,750cc based > special) > Re: camless engine > 2 bar map sensor > Re: 2 bar map sensor > Re: 2 bar map sensor > Re: 2 bar map sensor > > See the end of the digest for information on > subscribing to the > DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 21:53:37 +0000 > From: Ade + Lamb Chop > Subject: Re: Non-Cam Valves > > At 06:58 29/01/00 -0500, Frederic Breitwieser wrote: > >Hey Carl, > > > >> Has anybody ever had an idea to manufacture a cam > less machine. Well I've > >> got that dream, maybe somebody has tried it > already. > > > >Its been tried, somewhat unsuccessfully. The > problem is as with all > >magnetics devices, is speed. Injectors don't do so > well at 10K RPM, so > >a coil that moves a valve at the same engine speed > would choke, unless > >the coils are huge. > > > >The problem is the mass of the valve - takes > tremendous force to make it > >move and change direction abruptly. Pneumatics on > the other hand, can > >be used, but its very complex to setup. I believe, > maybe incorrectly, > >several F1 cars tried this over the years. > > So what do F1 use at the moment then? > > Ade > > - > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe > diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to > majordomo@xxx.org > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 21:57:53 +0000 > From: Ade + Lamb Chop > Subject: Re: Non-Cam Valves > > At 10:00 29/01/00 -0600, Robert W. Hughes wrote: > >The exhaust valve is also a special problem. The > pressure in the > >cylinder when the exhaust valve needs to open is in > the area of > >300-1500psi. A dinky 1.5in exhaust valve has a > surface area of 1.75 sq > >in so even at 300 psi you need a minimum of 523 > pounds force to open the > >valve. Bigger valves and earlier opening just make > it worse. > > 1.5inch, dinky??? I have 1.4" inlets and 1.22" > exhaust valves!!! These are > considered big for a mini!! > > BTW It is a 1330 Normally aspirated A series engine > putting out about > 105bhp at 7krpm.. Gives me about 165bhp/tonne (the > metric one) and gets me > to 60mph in about 7 or 8secs > > Who needs a V8 :-) > > Ade > > - > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe > diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to > majordomo@xxx.org > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 21:57:53 +0000 > From: Ade + Lamb Chop > Subject: Re: Non-Cam Valves > > At 10:00 29/01/00 -0600, Robert W. Hughes wrote: > >The exhaust valve is also a special problem. The > pressure in the > >cylinder when the exhaust valve needs to open is in > the area of > >300-1500psi. A dinky 1.5in exhaust valve has a > surface area of 1.75 sq > >in so even at 300 psi you need a minimum of 523 > pounds force to open the > >valve. Bigger valves and earlier opening just make > it worse. > > 1.5inch, dinky??? I have 1.4" inlets and 1.22" > exhaust valves!!! These are > considered big for a mini!! > > BTW It is a 1330 Normally aspirated A series engine > putting out about > 105bhp at 7krpm.. Gives me about 165bhp/tonne (the > metric one) and gets me > to 60mph in about 7 or 8secs > > Who needs a V8 :-) > > Ade > > - > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe > diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to > majordomo@xxx.org > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:57:29 -0500 > From: "Bruce Plecan" > Subject: Re: Non-Cam Valves > > 7 or 8 secs., am or pm. > Each cylinder in our tractor equals your total > displacement, yep, dinky. > Grumpy > > | 1.5inch, dinky??? I have 1.4" inlets and 1.22" > exhaust valves!!! These are > | considered big for a mini!! > | BTW It is a 1330 Normally aspirated A series > engine putting out about > | 105bhp at 7krpm.. Gives me about 165bhp/tonne (the > metric one) and gets me > | to 60mph in about 7 or 8secs > | Who needs a V8 :-) > | Ade > > > - > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe > diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to > majordomo@xxx.org > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 22:53:36 +0800 > From: Adrian Broughton > Subject: RE: boost controller project/Introduction > > > I Have had a look around, and have seen a lot of > stuff about boost > > controllers but have not been able to find a kit > (diy) out there..:< > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! 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