DIY_EFI Digest Tuesday, February 15 2000 Volume 05 : Number 062 In this issue: RE: Fuel pressure reg/EGO Qs Re: Fuel pressure reg/EGO Qs Bosch EGO Re: Electric Fuel Pumps test. Re: Dynamometer Bull Busters 83LB Siemens Deka Injector Problems Test... 83lb Siemens Deka injectors 8 cyl Programmable ECU check valves Re: check valves [ADMIN] Server troubles. [ADMIN] When it rains... Re: [ADMIN] When it rains... V8 programmable ecu Re: [ADMIN] When it rains... Re: Dynamometer Bull Busters Re: 83LB Siemens Deka Injector Problems Re: 8 cyl Programmable ECU Re: [ADMIN] When it rains... Re: Holley TBI Injectors VS Pressure Re: Dynamometer Bull Busters Re: [ADMIN] Server troubles. See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 13:36:44 -0000 From: "Rich M" Subject: RE: Fuel pressure reg/EGO Qs Andy, Yes, I've had some success with a standard ego sensor - BUT, you have to be aware of and accept the limitations: Realistically the ego sensor will really only tell you rich or lean, due to the hysteresis, it's difficult to get a stable mid range reading. >From my experience on both injected (1800-2000cc 4cyl port inj.) and carburetted engines, (2000cc 4cyl. Weber progressive dual-choke and twin sidedraught DCOE's) you can get a pretty good first shot with a standard ego sensor. If mixture is rich or weak the ego signal will be at one end or other of it's range; when it gets close to stoich. the signal will probably hunt back and forth due to the hysteresis (this at least is my experience). With the engine in a steady state, off load (few k's rpm) I have been able to adjust mixture finely to get a mid-range reading from the ego sensor, but it's difficult to get these conditions while driving. Don't be fooled by indications of weak mixture resulting from misfires! A rich misfire will generally give a "weak" reading because of the excess oxygen in the exhaust from the misfire! I have no doubt there will be those who disagree with these methods, but these are my findings by experience, it will get you pretty close. If you need better, then it's a trip to the chassis dyno with multi-gas analyser. At least you'll know you're not piston-melting-weak or bore-washing-rich, in fact you can close enough that your chassis dyno tuner won't need to do too much. The sensor I'm using is a Bosch 4-wire heated sensor mounted in the bottom of the exhaust downpipes/headers where all the branches meet. Hope this helps. Rich. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-diy_efi@xxx.org]On > Behalf Of Andy Wyatt > Sent: 11 February 2000 06:47 > To: diy_efi@xxx.org > Subject: Fuel pressure reg/EGO Qs > > > Hey y'all > > 2. Has anyone tried to use a standard EGO sensor to tune an engine? I'm > currently trying it, but it has so much hysteresis that it isn't working. > How do factory ECUs do closed loop control, esp at idle? > > Cheers > Andy W :-D - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 11:57:50 -0500 (EST) From: Mary or Stephen Burgess Subject: Re: Fuel pressure reg/EGO Qs At 05:47 PM 2/11/00 +1100, you wrote: >Hey y'all > >Could someone please explain to me: > >1. Why do they have fuel pressure regulators manifold pressure referenced? >Why don't they just take this into account in the fuel map? Is it so that >the injectors are open longer at idle, improving trimmability and hence idle >quality? > >2. Has anyone tried to use a standard EGO sensor to tune an engine? I'm >currently trying it, but it has so much hysteresis that it isn't working. >How do factory ECUs do closed loop control, esp at idle? Hi- I may not be totally correct in this (manufacturers may have other reasons), but I've tried manifold reference of the fuel pressure regulator to do two things - 1. alter fuel pressure and increase dynamic range of fuel injectors on high rpm engines without the need for multiple injectors and large memory ECU maps (injectors sized for idle don't usually perform well at 12000 rpm) , 2. mechanically compensate for engine loading (suddenly snapping the throttle open raises the fuel pressure and helps eliminate bog and surging problems) Tuning with just the ego sensor can be done roughly, but I suggest you also use exhaust temperature sensors to "fine tune" the mixture. Lean mixtures burn hotter giving hotter exhaust, rich mixtures give cooler exhausts, and ideal mixture will be somewhere in the middle. Using both the EGO sensor and an exhaust temperature reading should allow you to "dial in" the fuel and ignition tuning. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 14:47:48 -0800 (PST) From: Clay B Subject: Bosch EGO Is the 4-wire Bosch EGO (sorry don't know PN) good enough for tuning purposes? I understand it is "almost" a broadband sensor, at a more reasonable cost, and does a little better job than the $40 units that rail one direction or the other as you cross stoich. Anyone used this as a primary tuning device? (Yes, I plan on having EGT also) - Clay - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 00:48:01 +0100 From: "Espen Hilde" Subject: Re: Electric Fuel Pumps Hi! Interesting tought to use a marine pump as a low pressure pump , I think you are right in this tought of using high volume, maybe big size tubing ,that can fill the catch tank in a hurry. I am in the middle of the same problems of deciding on what low pressure pump to fill the catch tanks in the boat.I have trown the weldon high pressure pumps ,made a stainless steel chach tank from 8"thin wall stainless tubing. Below the buttom I have straped the Bosch fuel pumps and Bosch inline fuel filter .One of the weldon pumps was running slower because of internal friction in pump and the bearings in the motor I changed too ,but did not help much.....This pumps came from a boat that was a winner.....after a season of storage the top rpm fell 1500....it was a looser.....they changed engines checked everything but could not find what was wrong.....I think one of the pumps seized partialy during storage.The design with the open shaft from the electric motor into the pump , I dont like it from a security point of wiew.(their heavy too...) The low pressure pumps I have is some simular design pumps I dont remember the name(blue el engine).....I cant use them....to noisy and cavitates when trying to suck from tank.I have seen some big diagram pumps I am thinking of using. The Marine water pumps engine is supposed to work in a air filled part of the pump.I have never seen a sentrifugal low pressure pump for fuel Why not?? Yamaha200 hp direct injection efi outboard is using 50bar in line fuel pressure from a mecanical engine driven pump.( I have heard other extrem e pressures ,but this is latest info....) Sorry about all the gossip .... Espen - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 19:21:48 +0100 From: "Espen Hilde" Subject: test. Test ....Have not recived any mails.....strange.... - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 08:43:52 +0800 From: "Ken Thompson" Subject: Re: Dynamometer Bull Busters From: Ken Thompson. whistleblowers@xxx.com Hello All, Remember the movie with the punch line, "who ya gonna call?" I have got a be in my bonnet lately regarding, the advertisements and promotional material offered up as truth by certain dynamometer manufacturers. How can one expect to accurately setup one's DIY_EFI ecu, when then equipment on offer is not capable of doing the job? But how would you know that? when dyno brochures make some very wild claims. Enter, the "Dyno Bull Busters". Prof. Julius Sumner Miller often used the phrase, "why is it so?" Why is it so, that US made engine dynamometers are not used in Formula One engine development projects? Why do the top US Nascar teams use Froude Consine dynamometers, which are made in England? There are US companies whose dynos are very much Formula One ready, if their advertising and promotional material can be believed. Here is one US firm that makes some very tall claims: www.dtsdyno.com These people claim to have a formula one ready dyno within their stable of dynos. This unit being their PM-15. Now DTS doesn't actually say "F1 Ready", but they do provide specifications which equate to the same thing. DTS quote the following specifications: * Speed = 15,000 RPM * Power = 1,500 HP * Torque = 1,500 FT. LB. DTS provide us with a graphs, showing the absorption characteristics of this absorber, right up to 15,000 RPM. The north east slope of their graph is the the line which is determined by the outlet water temperature of this dyno. /* In order to determine this slope, DTS were required to test this dyno, right up to 15k RPM. */ I am very suspicious as to whether this dyno has ever spun at anything like 15k RPM. Has DTS fabricated it's test results? Which commonly made US piston engine will run at 15k RPM? I understand they have pushrod NASCAR engines running at 9k RPM. How many race teams (outside of NASCAR) are able to claim, "we can get to 9k RPM?" Is DIY_EFI the correct venue for canvassing these matters? Somewhere down the line a dyno will need to come into your test & measurement equation, this little exercise will enable you to figure out for yourself, whose dyno is to be trusted and who is having a bloody lend of you. Lets compare some of the features that Froude of the UK build into their F249 dyno, with the DTS PM-15 dyno from California: The Froude dyno uses non contact labyrinth seals and a zero water pressure at this seal area, while the DTS employs a mechanical seal similar to the Crane mechanical seal. Crane seals are good seals, but lets check their limitations as these limitations are directly proportional to DTSs dyno speed. Froude has no limiting speed, due to mechanical seals, as their are non. The Froude dyno uses a high tensile stainless steel rotor of about half the diameter of the DTSs aluminium (aluminum) alloy rotor. Lets check the rotor burst speeds of each dyno. The DTS braking principal can be best described as a paddle in a bucket (flat pocketed disk), while Froude use the concentric whirling chamber principal. As the DTS dyno speeds up, it attempts to pump the water out the same way it came in, so a very high pressure pump is required to push the water through the dyno. On the other hand Froude ports the inlet water to the centre of the vortex chamber, to an area of zero back pressure, resulting in a simple passage into the absorber. Now lets check the SKF precision bearing manual, there they give the limiting speeds for grease filled, oil bath and oil mist lubricated bearings. Oil mist lubrication is standard on all Froude F24 dynos that run over 6,000 RPM. DTS say their oil bath system is fine at 15,000 RPM. (DTS say a lot of things that I do not believe to be true) DTS could claim that their dyno was good for 50,000 RPM, but which one of us can supply a prime mover (engine), we can use to test these DTS specifications? So their 15k RPM claim remains untested, by us ordinary rev heads, who can only summon up 7.5k RPM on a good day. DTS does however owe every single one of us an explanation as to where their 15,000 RPM specification came from. By ganging together and demanding the truth, we can force these kinds of people into a whole new honest way of life. You can help yourselves: 1. Check the DTS website www.dtsdyno.com and their 15k RPM commentary. 2. Check the SKF bearing catalogue in the lubrication VS speed section. From memory the DTS spindle spec. states that a 2" shaft is used. This will place the shaft bearing ID at somewhere between 45mm an 50mm, after the shaft is keyed or splined for the rotor. The bigger the bearing he lower the limiting speed of course. 3. Click this link to start your email message ==> info@xxx.com 4. Copy and paste the following text into an email message, that asks the people at DTS to please clarify their specs. If enough of us ask the question, they will soon get the picture. - ------------------------------------------------------------- To: The Manager, Dynamic Test Systems. California. USA. From: Your Name Dear Sir, We recently visited you site and noticed that you are claiming that your DTS Powermark dyno is recommended for testing speeds to 15,000 RPM. Please explain to me how you tested and mapped this absorber's performance to such high speeds. Please describe the test procedure fully and give full details of the prime mover (engine / engine transmission) used for this testing. I note that your high speed driveshaft is of the twin tube design using bonded rubber in-between two tubes and Lobro CV couplings at each end. Is this the driveshaft that was used for your 15,000 RPM high speed testing? We note that you offer a one size fits all drive shaft solution, yet this philosophy is diametrically opposed to the recommendations in the selection guide of the SPICER dynamometer drive shaft designers manual. Please set out your drive shaft design criteria, as it is obviously different to DANA SPICER'S. I am interested in the PM-15's usable lower limits as I wish to map my MoTeC M8 ECU that controls my very "pit lane drivable", 5 litre racing car. Will the PM-15 dyno get down low enough, for mapping at this soft end? Your PM-15 dyno sounds like it is ready for use by Formula One teams like Ferrari, Williams, McLaren and the F1 engine people like Ford, Mercedes, BMW, Honda, Renault and Peugeot etc, how many of these people are using, or have ordered your PM-15 dynamometer? Thank You, Regards, Your Name. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- How many replies do you think we'll get? Don't hold your breath. Please forward your reply, to whistleblowers@xxx.com I will keep score and post the results to www.users.bigpond.com/whistleblowers This URL will go on line on about the 15th Feb. Good Luck, Regards, K.T. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:32:51 -0700 From: Andrew Subject: 83LB Siemens Deka Injector Problems I have a used set of low impedence 83lb injectors. I checked the resistance, and here is what I found; 3 measured 1.8 ohms 5 measured 11.6 ohms So my question is, is it possible that these 5 injectors were damaged somehow? what could cause this? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Andrew Calgary, AB Canada - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 12:53:05 -0800 From: Doug Dayson Subject: Test... Haven't recieved anything over the weekend...is everyone taking a vacation or did the server go kaputt? Doug - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 22:55:36 -0700 From: "Andrew Hunter" Subject: 83lb Siemens Deka injectors I have a used set of low impedence 83lb injectors. I checked the resistance, and here is what I found; 3 measured 1.8 ohms 5 measured 11.6 ohms So my question is, is it possible that these 5 injectors were damaged somehow? what could cause this? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Andrew Calgary, AB Canada - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 21:16:49 +0000 From: "Roderick Warner" Subject: 8 cyl Programmable ECU I will be in the states in a couple of weeks ( a Brit on holiday ) and wonder if I can get some tips as to which is the best ECU to look for in a breakers yard. Given the quantity of circuit and software info available in the digest, it sounds as though a GM varient will be the best choice. I have a Rover V8 engine ( in a Truimph TR7) which currently runs a Lucas system with a Bosch airflap MAF - which is not programmable. I intend to change it to a timed sequential ( rather than batch fire) ECU that lends itself to mapping/ programming. So a few clues as to which cars run a suitable ECU, the likely availability and what would be a fair price would be most appreciated. - All I have to do then is convince the other half that Disney also runs breakers yards. Rod Warner - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 12:02:29 PST From: "Brian Hicks" Subject: check valves To whom it may concern; I own a 1992 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer with a 4.3W Vortec engine. Lately, this vehicle has become hard to crank after the engine has had a few hours to cool off. The engine turns good but doesn't seem to be getting fuel. After the initial start the engine will restart with no problems. I am curious if you can tell me if there are check valves in the injectors that would allow the fuel to seep back out of the engine over time. If there are no check valves, could you please give me some suggestions as to what the problem may be. Your expertise advise would be greatly appreciated. Sincerely, William R. Hicks ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:15:24 EST From: ECMnut@xxx.com Subject: Re: check valves Sounds like weak fuel pump.. Try hooking a pressure gauge to the fuel rail, then clicking the key to the on position afetr the truck has been sitting for a few hours. This should energise the pump, and you should immediately see full fuel pressure. HTH Mike V << To whom it may concern; I own a 1992 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer with a 4.3W Vortec engine. Lately, this vehicle has become hard to crank after the engine has had a few hours to cool off. The engine turns good but doesn't seem to be getting fuel. After the initial start the engine will restart with no problems. I am curious if you can tell me if there are check valves in the injectors that would allow the fuel to seep back out of the engine over time. If there are no check valves, could you please give me some suggestions as to what the problem may be. Your expertise advise would be greatly appreciated. Sincerely, William R. Hicks >> - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:20:05 -0800 (PST) From: "Jon V." Subject: [ADMIN] Server troubles. Hello everyone, As you've all already noticed, we had some server troubles over the weekend. The problems began on 2/11 at roughly three PM and reached culmination at roughly 4:40PM, at which point mail stopped being delivered. The exact cause of the problem is unknown, but is *tentatively* being linked to a kernel memory leak. Logging stopped without any indicative error messages at approximately 16:40. Several new programs had been installed and were being tested earlier that day, but those were user-level and should not have been able to crash the server. The server will be taken down briefly tonight (2/14) at approximately 11:00PM for a kernel upgrade. At that time web/ftp/mail services will stop for at least one half hour and not more than one hour. At this time, there are approx. 2500 messages in our outbound mail queue awaiting delivery to individual recipients. This may cause the lists to be somewhat slow today as the server catches up. Sorry for any inconveniance, Jon - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 13:51:14 -0800 (PST) From: "Jon V." Subject: [ADMIN] When it rains... Well folks, it is raining in Southern California... and as much as we need rain in SoCal, there are a few attendant difficulties we could just as well do without. Chief among them: power outages. A good part of the town the server is in (aka a couple of blocks) lost power for about 40 minutes around noon local time today. Everything seems to be back up and running. All is now well, services have been restored, everything seems to be up and running. Perhaps it is just the time for all good things to fail... but Let's hope that whatever humorous fates have colluded to cause our yo-yo server condition will get bored and leave us alone for at least another few hours. As before, the server will go down for re-kernelation at about 11:00PM PST (GMT-8) but until then have fun (as long as the power holds out) and feel free to talk amongst yourselves about the relative merits of flogging vs keel-hauling vs .... On a related subject, perhaps it would be apropos to discuss the group acquisition of a UPS? The units that I scrounged were all defective... not that a small UPS would have helped in this case, but as a general rule they are a good investment. - -Jon - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 16:59:19 -0500 From: "nacelp" Subject: Re: [ADMIN] When it rains... The little guys and I could cough up someting toward a UPS. What do they cost, for what your doing?. Grumpy > Well folks, it is raining in Southern California... and as much as we > need rain in SoCal, there are a few attendant difficulties we could just > as well do without. Chief among them: power outages. > > A good part of the town the server is in (aka a couple of blocks) lost > power for about 40 minutes around noon local time today. Everything seems > to be back up and running. All is now well, services have been restored, > everything seems to be up and running. > > Perhaps it is just the time for all good things to fail... but Let's hope > that whatever humorous fates have colluded to cause our yo-yo server > condition will get bored and leave us alone for at least another few > hours. > > As before, the server will go down for re-kernelation at about 11:00PM PST > (GMT-8) but until then have fun (as long as the power holds out) and feel > free to talk amongst yourselves about the relative merits of flogging > vs keel-hauling vs .... > > On a related subject, perhaps it would be apropos to discuss the group > acquisition of a UPS? The units that I scrounged were all defective... not > that a small UPS would have helped in this case, but as a general rule > they are a good investment. > > -Jon > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 16:41:07 -0600 From: steve ravet Subject: V8 programmable ecu This bounced so I'm sending it again... > Rod -- I didn't see any replies yet, but you might want to ask on the > gmecm list specifically. Anyway, the most popular GM ECMs for normally > aspirated use seem to be the 1227747 (TBI, 8/6 cyl, used in full size > trucks and Astro vans), 1227165 (Corvette/Camaro V8 TPI, '86-'89 or so), > and 1227730 (Corvette/Camaro V8 TPI, 90-92 or so). Take a look at the > gmecm page and especially Ludis' page (www.cruzers.com/~ludis I think) > for more specific applications. The years I listed are from memory and > probably not right. For forced induction 1227749 seems popular. > > --steve > > Roderick Warner wrote: > > > > I will be in the states in a couple of weeks ( a Brit on holiday ) and wonder if > > I can get some tips as to which is the best ECU to look for in a breakers yard. > > Given the quantity of circuit and software info available in the digest, it > > sounds as though a GM varient will be the best choice. I have a Rover V8 > > engine ( in a Truimph TR7) which currently runs a Lucas system with a Bosch > > airflap MAF - which is not programmable. I intend to change it to a timed > > sequential ( rather than batch fire) ECU that lends itself to mapping/ > > programming. > > So a few clues as to which cars run a suitable ECU, the likely availability > > and what would be a fair price would be most appreciated. - All I have to do > > then is convince the other half that Disney also runs breakers yards. > > > > Rod Warner - -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@xxx.com Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. www.arm.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 14:59:24 -0800 (PST) From: "Jon V." Subject: Re: [ADMIN] When it rains... On Mon, 14 Feb 2000, nacelp wrote: > The little guys and I could cough up someting toward a UPS. > What do they cost, for what your doing?. > Grumpy $100 will get a UPS that will run the server for about 5 minutes. Around $200-$240 for the minimum that is worth bothering with. It will probably keep things running for 10-13 minutes, maybe a tad longer, and will have an interface to tell the server to shut down when the power doesn't come right back up, preventing data loss and speeding the restart. As I said, it wouldn't have helped in this case -- at 40 minutes we would have been down hard for at least 25 minutes regardless -- but we had one incident before the official switch-over that would have been prevented... and there will be more. And Orin wrote: > I have an old APC that could be used as a trade-in, but I guess > those you already have could be used for that. > > Yes, I think we should try to buy one. I've got a unit that can be traded in, which will help with the price at least somewhat. If somebody has a good place to buy, or model recommendations I'd love to hear'em. I'll do some shopping and see what prices I can find... ...and if they seem reasonable, I'll pick one up and post a message saying what it cost for anyone who wants to chip in. - -Jon - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 18:08:35 -0500 From: "nacelp" Subject: Re: Dynamometer Bull Busters This looks like the start of a pissing contest. If you have guestions for them, ask them, least don't include me in reading this stuff. If you get interesting answers maybe that would be worth posting but addressing us about your guestions to them, just doesn't make sense in my book Grumpy I'd imagine any number of Motorcycle engines would spin plenty fast enough. > From: > Ken Thompson. whistleblowers@xxx.com > > Hello All, > Remember the movie with the punch line, "who ya gonna call?" I have got a be > in my bonnet lately regarding, the advertisements and promotional material > offered up as truth by certain dynamometer manufacturers. How can one expect > to accurately setup one's DIY_EFI ecu, when then equipment on offer is not > capable of doing the job? But how would you know that? when dyno brochures > make some very wild claims. > > Enter, the "Dyno Bull Busters". - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 18:12:55 -0500 From: "nacelp" Subject: Re: 83LB Siemens Deka Injector Problems Sounds like a mixed bag of goods. 5 at 11.6 ohms, How 5 could fail, to the same point would be interesting. I could see them going open if they got hot enough to melt the solder out of a connection, or if the insulation failed going as low as 0 ohms, but that's all Grumpy If you hadn't used them yet, I'd try to get my money back if it were me. > I have a used set of low impedence 83lb injectors. I checked the > resistance, and here is what I found; > 3 measured 1.8 ohms > 5 measured 11.6 ohms > So my question is, is it possible that these 5 injectors were damaged > somehow? what could cause this? Any input would be greatly appreciated. > Andrew > Calgary, AB Canada > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 18:19:54 -0500 From: "nacelp" Subject: Re: 8 cyl Programmable ECU SEFI V-8s tend to be rare, and very difficult to retrofit in my opinion. Is SEFI a must, or just "gee this would be a cool thing to do"?. I'd stick with something more along the lines of a 730, or early PCM, like the trucks have (8625). The 730 is hac'd and available to use, for the PCMs both GMEPRO, and Tunercat would be the software to edit with, IMHO. Grumpy If LA be sure to get to the LA County Art Museum. It's a different interesting way to spend a day. Be also sure to try and get to a Tommy's Burger stand, if downtown LA. The main one was on 2nd street I think, been years since there but were great burgers. > I will be in the states in a couple of weeks ( a Brit on holiday ) and wonder if > I can get some tips as to which is the best ECU to look for in a breakers yard. > Given the quantity of circuit and software info available in the digest, it > sounds as though a GM varient will be the best choice. I have a Rover V8 > engine ( in a Truimph TR7) which currently runs a Lucas system with a Bosch > airflap MAF - which is not programmable. I intend to change it to a timed > sequential ( rather than batch fire) ECU that lends itself to mapping/ > programming. > So a few clues as to which cars run a suitable ECU, the likely availability > and what would be a fair price would be most appreciated. - All I have to do > then is convince the other half that Disney also runs breakers yards. > > Rod Warner > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 19:16:24 -0500 From: "nacelp" Subject: Re: [ADMIN] When it rains... Put us down for $20, if we can't get enough to contribute to make at least 240, I'll donate more. Bruce > > The little guys and I could cough up someting toward a UPS. > > What do they cost, for what your doing?. > > Grumpy > $100 will get a UPS that will run the server for about 5 minutes. > Around $200-$240 for the minimum that is worth bothering with. It will > probably keep things running for 10-13 minutes, maybe a tad longer, and > will have an interface to tell the server to shut down when the power > doesn't come right back up, preventing data loss and speeding the restart. > As I said, it wouldn't have helped in this case -- at 40 minutes we would > have been down hard for at least 25 minutes regardless -- but we had one > incident before the official switch-over that would have been prevented... > and there will be more. > And Orin wrote: > > I have an old APC that could be used as a trade-in, but I guess > > those you already have could be used for that. > > Yes, I think we should try to buy one. > I've got a unit that can be traded in, which will help with the price at > least somewhat. If somebody has a good place to buy, or model > recommendations I'd love to hear'em. I'll do some shopping and see what > prices I can find... > ...and if they seem reasonable, I'll pick one up and post a message saying > what it cost for anyone who wants to chip in. > -Jon - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 22:09:28 -0600 From: "Shane Buss" Subject: Re: Holley TBI Injectors VS Pressure What's the lowest effective pressure these injectors work well with? I should have the 80#ers tommorrow.. Shane - -----Original Message----- From: Walter Sherwin To: diy_efi@xxx.org> Date: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 4:45 PM Subject: Holley TBI Injectors VS Pressure >Shane; > >The Holley B2 TBI injectors do not typically like a lot of static fuel >pressure. I have never tested the #65's myself, but I have extensively >tested the #85's on my flow bench. According to what I've read & heard, >both are constrained by the same limitations. The basic problem is >associated with the fact that the internal ball and pintle rod are >magnetically "coupled", and that the internal hydraulic differential forces >(a product of increased fuel pressure) can become sufficient to separate the >two elements and cease flow entirely. > >With a 4/1 amp driver, the #85's are happy puppies at 15psig when hot. >Roughly 18psig is the upper hot operating limit, with same. Cold, on the >bench, the #85s will operate irregularly above 20'ish psig and will >completely shut-off at 26psig. > >Not quite the same injector, but food for thought........ > > >Walt. > > > > >>Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 22:31:00 -0600 >>From: "Shane Buss" >>Subject: Fuel Pressure with Holley Injectors >> >>I'm running very lean with 65# injectors on my holley 670cfm tbi unit... >>Im running about 16psi with the stock fuel pump... >> >>How high can i effectively turn up the pressure? I heard with the chrysler >>injectors holley uses above 17-20psi could cause problems... >> >>How high is the stock fuel pump good for also.. >>Thanks, >>Shane > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - >To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) >in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 21:07:47 +0000 From: Ade + Lamb Chop Subject: Re: Dynamometer Bull Busters At 08:43 14/02/00 +0800, Ken Thompson wrote: >From: >Ken Thompson. whistleblowers@xxx.c >Which commonly made US piston engine will run at 15k RPM? I understand >they have pushrod NASCAR engines running at 9k RPM. How many race >teams (outside of NASCAR) are able to claim, "we can get to 9k RPM?" Mini 7 and Mini Miglias (Mini based British racing classes) get up around these sort of revs maybe not quite 9k but not far off... Sorry had mention this... BTW they run webbers :-) Migias have solid state ignition tho... See there was SOME efi content... well almost :-) Ade - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 00:57:09 -0800 (PST) From: "Jon V." Subject: Re: [ADMIN] Server troubles. On Mon, 14 Feb 2000, Jon V. wrote: > The server will be taken down briefly tonight (2/14) at approximately > 11:00PM for a kernel upgrade. At that time web/ftp/mail services will stop > for at least one half hour and not more than one hour. OK, things went slower than I expected, so the midnight downtime will take place again tomorrow, 2/15. Same time. In the mean time... have at it, resume discussions, have fun... (I've always been partial to drawing... I could do without the quartering (too messy) but drawing seemed to have a certain ambiance... hard to explain I guess....) - -Jon - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V5 #62 **************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".