DIY_EFI Digest Thursday, February 17 2000 Volume 05 : Number 066 In this issue: Electronic ignition Re: Parallel Port Interface Dual ign system question Re: Dual ign system question Re: Mass airflow sensors. Re: Parallel Port Interface RE: ECU7 IGBT etc. Re: Dual ign system question Re: Dual ign system question RE: Dual ign system question Re: Dual ign system question RE: Dual ign system question Re: Dual ign system question Re: Dual ign system question Re: DIY_EFI Digest V5 #65 Re: Dual ign system question Re: Dual ign system question Re: Dual ign system question Re: Dual ign system question Re: Mass airflow sensors. Re: Mass airflow sensors. Peak temp of combustion See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 07:32:54 -0800 (PST) From: Mihai Alexandru Subject: Electronic ignition Hello, I have posted a question some days ago about the MC3334 IC from Motorola. Meanwhile I have found some similar ICs at SGS-Thomson, namely the L482, L484 and L497. Does anyone have experience working with these ICs? And a general question: what parameters of the coil are important to be checked before working with such ignitions? Thanks a lot, Mihai __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 10:46:49 -0500 From: "nacelp" Subject: Re: Parallel Port Interface Have you read up on the efi332 list?. That's all I can say about this Grumpy > Hi I am new to the list (joined this weekend). > my name is Chris Wilkinson, and I am very interested > in all types of fuel injection projects. > > My particular project is to build a PC based fuel > injection system, to be developed around one of my > race bike engines. These engines are 250cc 2-stroke > engnies which produce 45-50 H.P. @xxx. This > project is not meant for any particular purpose except > that of my further education. > > my engine only needs one injector (1 cylinder) > and I would like to run it from a parallel port. > My limited knowledge of this subject gives me the > inclination to develop a C or C++ coded piece of > software which can send a Puls Width Modulation signal > out the first data pin on a parallel port. I would > amplify this (using a switching transistor) to 12v to > directly control my injector. I also need to devise a > way (probably using an Analog/Digital Conv.) to read > my MAP sensor and Temp sensor. I can use my existing > digital ignition pulse generator to read RPM. > Using these sensors and my stock carb I hope to create > a 4 Dimensional table (MAP*Temp*RPM*TPS) for lookup > table type injection. then replace the carb with a > Throttle body and injection manifold. > > few... with all that said I am looking for any > suggestions on how to amplify the injector signal from > the parallel port, and how to convert the sensor > analog data (MAP TEMP TPS) to usable digital data. > > Also I am not much of a programmer so Is there anyone > who can tell me how to code (C or assembler in a DOS > environment) to modulate my injector signal. I also > thought of using a sound card or USB to modulate the > signal. > > If any of you can help me or steer me straight I would > be very greatfull. > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 09:54:31 -0600 (CST) From: Roger Heflin Subject: Dual ign system question On my car right now I have two fully functional ignition systems. Both have coils and plug wires, on one system is setup to generate spark at one time. Is it possible to have one wire running to a plug and two different systems feeding that wire with spark? Would one coil sparking backfeed the other in a bad manner and possibly damage one system or both systems? One system is a DIS system and the other is a basically a classic coil/distributor type setup. I would expect both systems to fire at roughly the same time, but I could adjust the dis system to fire several degrees after the optimal fireing position that would be taken by the coil/distrubitor setup. Roger - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 11:05:06 -0500 From: "nacelp" Subject: Re: Dual ign system question MSD makes a devise for being able to run two coils, with a single output (NASCAR item), that sounds like what your looking for. I haven't a clue about price. It would seemingly have to include a diode od some sort so that a shorted secondary in one coil wouldn't effect the others output. I'd also venture a guess that the small aircraft or experimental aircraft groups might have something similiar. Grumpy > On my car right now I have two fully functional ignition systems. > Both have coils and plug wires, on one system is setup to generate > spark at one time. Is it possible to have one wire running to a plug > and two different systems feeding that wire with spark? Would one > coil sparking backfeed the other in a bad manner and possibly damage > one system or both systems? > > One system is a DIS system and the other is a basically a classic > coil/distributor type setup. I would expect both systems to fire at > roughly the same time, but I could adjust the dis system to fire > several degrees after the optimal fireing position that would be taken > by the coil/distrubitor setup. > > Roger > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:09:14 -0800 From: "Andrew Brownsword" Subject: Re: Mass airflow sensors. Jörgen, You pointed me at the Perfect Power people a couple of months ago. I have communicated with this, but they don't seem to be willing or able to answer some of my more detailed questions -- and I don't feel like ordering a device from (literally) half a world away only to find out it isn't going to work. Thanks again though. Andrew - ---------- >From: Jörgen Karlsson >To: >Subject: RE: Mass airflow sensors. >Date: Wed, Feb 16, 2000, 9:38 PM > > There is a box called IFT from Perfect Power in South Africa, it is designed > to modify up to two sensor signals and/or one ignition trigger timing. One > of the two versions has a built in MAP sensor, I haven't checked but I guess > that it could be used to simulate the air flow sensor. > > The manual and software is available on the web. Check it out at > http://www.perfectpower.co.za/ift1.htm > > I don't know the price, but their other stuff is very inexpensive. The turbo > fueller is great, modifies ignition timing and drives a bunch of additional > injectors for only4 $200. > > Jörgen > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 16:10:45 -0000 From: "Gavin" Subject: Re: Parallel Port Interface Hi Chris, If you look under the members projects on the diy_efi site, Al Lipper goes into this. Read that, I'm sure it will help. -Gavin - -----Original Message----- From: Chris Wilkinson To: diy_efi@xxx.org> Date: 17 February 2000 07:34 Subject: Parallel Port Interface >Hi I am new to the list (joined this weekend). >my name is Chris Wilkinson, and I am very interested >in all types of fuel injection projects. > >My particular project is to build a PC based fuel >injection system, to be developed around one of my >race bike engines. These engines are 250cc 2-stroke >engnies which produce 45-50 H.P. @xxx. This >project is not meant for any particular purpose except >that of my further education. > >my engine only needs one injector (1 cylinder) >and I would like to run it from a parallel port. >My limited knowledge of this subject gives me the >inclination to develop a C or C++ coded piece of >software which can send a Puls Width Modulation signal >out the first data pin on a parallel port. I would >amplify this (using a switching transistor) to 12v to >directly control my injector. I also need to devise a >way (probably using an Analog/Digital Conv.) to read >my MAP sensor and Temp sensor. I can use my existing >digital ignition pulse generator to read RPM. >Using these sensors and my stock carb I hope to create >a 4 Dimensional table (MAP*Temp*RPM*TPS) for lookup >table type injection. then replace the carb with a >Throttle body and injection manifold. > >few... with all that said I am looking for any >suggestions on how to amplify the injector signal from >the parallel port, and how to convert the sensor >analog data (MAP TEMP TPS) to usable digital data. > >Also I am not much of a programmer so Is there anyone >who can tell me how to code (C or assembler in a DOS >environment) to modulate my injector signal. I also >thought of using a sound card or USB to modulate the >signal. > >If any of you can help me or steer me straight I would >be very greatfull. >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://im.yahoo.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - >To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) >in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:20:54 -0800 From: "Al Lipper" Subject: RE: ECU7 Steve, I'll try to answer your questions as best as I can. Sensor setups are entirely user-definable. The program source code is available to you, so it is not just a matter of changing data in tables - you can actually change the way the data is used. In fact, you can re-assign inputs or add new sensors if you like (perhaps you might want an intake air temp. or knock sensor). There are a total of 8 analog inputs, though only 5 are used at the moment (the other 3 are available on the connector for whatever you like). Currently used sensor inputs are: RPM, MAP, oxygen, coolant temp., TPS and volts. ECU7 is currently set up to fire up to 4 batches of injectors (though this can be expanded by adding more drivers). Since you may modify the program, you can set the timing and sequence of these injectors as you see fit. For data aquisition, it has a serial PC interface. I have mine setup to continually output operational parameters for whatever aspect I'm working on and I capture these is a file for later review (or plotting in Excel). If you wanted the unit to capture data internally, it has 128K of RAM (though only 64K is addressable without modification), of which about 6K is currently used - the remainder is available for whatever you want. Incidentally, the RAM is battery backed and will retain its data for about 5 years without external power. Overall, ECU7 has been designed with expansion and flexibility in mind. If someone wanted to eliminate features later, in order to reduce size or cost, that is easy to do, but for the moment, all features we thought could reasonably be used have been implemented. We are currently devoting considerable time to the development of the ECU7 system, and would be happy to share knowledge (and gain from your experiences) if you decide to persue the project. Best wishes, Al > -----Original Message----- > From: LEONARD,STEVE [mailto:sleonard@xxx.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2000 5:26 AM > To: Al Lipper > Subject: RE: ECU7 > > > AL, > In fact our who club is made up Electrical, Mechanical, and Computer > engineers, so we prefer something flexible. Just some questions, are the > sensor setups user definable, ie Map sensors, TPS etc. Does the ECU7 have > sequential capabilities? How many analog and/or digital outputs? Does it > have data acquisition or board internal memory. > We are VERY interested in your unit, please get back to us. > > regards > > Steve Leonard > Powertrain Engineer > University of Buffalo > Formula SAE > > -----Original Message----- > From: Al Lipper [mailto:alipper@xxx.org] > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 7:32 PM > To: LEONARD,STEVE > Subject: RE: ECU7 > > > Yes Steve, I'm sure it can be adapted. If you have members who specialize > in electronics and programming, it could be used in that application. If > you don't have that expertise among your membership, I might suggest an > off-the-shelf system like Holley's DFI. Good luck. > > > Al > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: LEONARD,STEVE [mailto:sleonard@xxx.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 12:25 PM > > To: efi@xxx.org > > Subject: ECU7 > > > > > > Mr. Lipper, > > > > 'I've been lurking on the DYI-efi mailing list and saw your > > postings. I am student at the University of Buffalo, our club, a student > > chapter of the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) www.sae.org. We are > > building a small race car for a annual race held in Detroit, MI. > > These cars > > built and funded by students and are built to "Formula SAE" > requirements. > > The engines are 600cc and under, therein lies our problem. We > are using a > > 600cc motorcycle engine with a Aerodyne Turbocharger. We need a fuel > > injection system for this as we short on time to develop our > own. Can your > > system adapt to these small displacement high RPM engines? > > > > Cheers, > > > > Steve Leonard > > Powertrain Engineer > > U of Buffalo > > Formula SAE > > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:36:43 -0800 From: Sandy Ganz Subject: IGBT etc. The IGBT is a very good choice. Check out what I did with the EFI332 Injector/Ignition drivers. They did require some different values in the drive vs a standard darlington transistor, but they work really well. The problem is that the ignition ones like the HGTP14N20's (I can't remember now) with the internal protection were difficult to get. I think you can check with Harris they have a bunch of 'Ignition' Rated parts. Just as a side note you could probably make something with a PIC and have it do much of the same thing as the moto chip which as I recall was somewhat hard to get. I think someone even did a PIC Ignition driver a while back, but can't remember exactly. Hope this helps out a bit. Sandy - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 11:05:43 -0600 (CST) From: Roger Heflin Subject: Re: Dual ign system question On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, nacelp wrote: > MSD makes a devise for being able to run two coils, with a single output > (NASCAR item), that sounds like what your looking for. I haven't a clue > about price. It would seemingly have to include a diode od some sort so > that a shorted secondary in one coil wouldn't effect the others output. I'd > also venture a guess that the small aircraft or experimental aircraft groups > might have something similiar. > Grumpy > I though NASCAR switched from one to the other and did not run both at the same time. I remember them needing to switch something to go th the backup ign systems. I was thinking using some diodes to prevent reversal, but with the voltage being in the range of 50Kv that would require 50 or so diodes that each were able to stop 1000V (the biggest I have normally seen). Of course if I could get a diode that would stop ign voltage and it only cost $5 or so for each it would be dooable (16 diodes $5 each I could live with). Roger - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 12:19:31 -0500 From: "nacelp" Subject: Re: Dual ign system question You have to flip a ignition select switch, yes. The "dealy" has like three plug ends on it. Maybe something other then a doide?. Like a lightning protector, gizmo. I forget the name. Bruce > > MSD makes a devise for being able to run two coils, with a single output > > (NASCAR item), that sounds like what your looking for. I haven't a clue > > about price. It would seemingly have to include a diode od some sort so > > that a shorted secondary in one coil wouldn't effect the others output. I'd > > also venture a guess that the small aircraft or experimental aircraft groups > > might have something similiar. > > Grumpy > I though NASCAR switched from one to the other and did not run both at > the same time. I remember them needing to switch something to go th > the backup ign systems. I was thinking using some diodes to prevent > reversal, but with the voltage being in the range of 50Kv that would > require 50 or so diodes that each were able to stop 1000V (the biggest > I have normally seen). Of course if I could get a diode that would > stop ign voltage and it only cost $5 or so for each it would be > dooable (16 diodes $5 each I could live with). > Roger - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 12:18:00 -0600 From: "Ken Kelly" Subject: RE: Dual ign system question MOV? Metal Oxide Varistor? I believe that's what they use in surge protectors. Is that what you're talking about? I have seen these devices, and it didn't seem to have anything to protect it against the voltage going into the other coil.. You just flip an SPST switch between coil power supplies. Would it really matter anyway, since it'd just get converted back into 12v at the other coil power terminal? (This can be avoided with a diode?) Ken Kelly (#2) >You have to flip a ignition select switch, yes. The "dealy" has like three plug ends on it. >Maybe something other then a doide?. Like a lightning protector, gizmo. I >forget the name. >Bruce - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:33:22 -0500 From: "nacelp" Subject: Re: Dual ign system question > MOV? Metal Oxide Varistor? I believe that's what they use in surge > protectors. Is that what you're talking about? Upon reflection, was a dumb comment, sorry > I have seen these devices, and it didn't seem to have anything to protect it > against the voltage going into the other coil.. You just flip an SPST switch > between coil power supplies. Would it really matter anyway, since it'd just > get converted back into 12v at the other coil power terminal? (This can be > avoided with a diode?) "Seems" like they would want some protection in case the first's coil secondary might be shorted to ground, and the switching coils wouldn't change that. Bruce > > Ken Kelly (#2) > > >You have to flip a ignition select switch, yes. The "dealy" has like three > plug ends on it. > >Maybe something other then a doide?. Like a lightning protector, gizmo. I > >forget the name. > >Bruce > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 12:49:51 -0600 (CST) From: Roger Heflin Subject: RE: Dual ign system question On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, Ken Kelly wrote: > MOV? Metal Oxide Varistor? I believe that's what they use in surge > protectors. Is that what you're talking about? > I think the MOV's only last for a small number of hits so they would probably burn out pretty quickly. > I have seen these devices, and it didn't seem to have anything to protect it > against the voltage going into the other coil.. You just flip an SPST switch > between coil power supplies. Would it really matter anyway, since it'd just > get converted back into 12v at the other coil power terminal? (This can be > avoided with a diode?) > It would take lots of diodes, most diodes only stop about 1kv going backwards, over that and it will go through. One side of that coil is grounded right? So putting 50kv a the coil terminal (not generated from the coil) would short to ground through the unenergized coil, so you would need something to prevent the backflow. So for each wire I would need sets of diodes to stop the expected voltage which could be a problem. Still thinking about what the isses with implementing this sort of thing are. Roger - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 14:01:14 -0500 From: "nacelp" Subject: Re: Dual ign system question Ya need to call MSD, and then report back, so we have more to chew on . Grumpy > > Still thinking about what the isses with implementing this sort of > thing are. > > Roger > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:13:27 -0600 From: steve ravet Subject: Re: Dual ign system question Garfield was looking for some heavy duty diodes for his ION project. Maybe you could ask him? Are the two systems going to be permanently installed together, or is this just a "for now" arrangement? > One side of that coil is grounded right? So putting 50kv a the coil > terminal (not generated from the coil) would short to ground through > the unenergized coil, so you would need something to prevent the > backflow. So for each wire I would need sets of diodes to stop the > expected voltage which could be a problem. > > Still thinking about what the isses with implementing this sort of > thing are. - -- Steve Ravet steve.ravet@xxx.com Advanced Risc Machines, Inc. www.arm.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 11:35:50 -0800 From: Vladimir Vooss Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V5 #65 As I realize, after lurking here for a long time, that you are mostly engineers and designers, I do need a little education, however concerning a fuel related drivability problem I have with an '85 BMW 528e which I haven't been able to resolve at the local shop level. I would like to beg the group's indulgence to help me figure my way out of this by either private email or on this forum, if it's not so off-topic. This is a car I inherited from my sister, which I drove when it was hers when I visited my mother in San Francisco, and they would leave me the car in the apartment garage to use. It drove fine for an ETA engined car. When I got it it had huge drivability problems: stuttering and hesitating while trying to accelerate, bursting ahead kind of surging. A bad throttle position sensor was replaced as well as the AFM and the idle control unit and its brain. The problem was not resolved. I changed out the fuel pressure regulator, all the interior fuel hoses (to and from and around the fuel rail) and then lastly the transfer and main pumps and the fuel filter. The balls in the acceleration returned, and even though the car is not a break-your-neck kind of car,it drives well now. However, it sometimes sags under hard acceleration, or if the gas pedal is suddenly jammed to the floor, the car goes through a stuttering act which is only relieved by letting go of the gas pedal and accelerating smoothly and progressively. Sometimes, under a sudden, but not warp speed stabbing of the pedal, as in an escape maneuver having to be performed to go around someone having a big problem and slowing to a crawl in the middle of the rest of the freeway, the acceleration vector wil suddenly pull back, and then snap forward, as if suddenly gas is being rammed down the pipes in bucket-fulls. Acceleration proceeds smoothly. I suspect that perhaps the injectors are misbehaving, and I though I'd direct my question towards injector behavior. I wouldn't mind replacing the injectors if they were indeed the culprits - one shop tested them and pronounced that they cycled correctly. I understand this concept, but wonder if there are any other performance issues that can crop up while "in cycle"? What are the noticable systemic behaviors of aging injectors: do they impart anything to the fuel flow that would NOT implicate the fuel pressure regulator or the opening or closing of the throttle flap? I also remember hearing or reading, though I can't remember where or when or, most importantly, if this is actually true - that fuel injection systems go lean with age and that they have to be richened, so to speak to not only improve drivability, but to be able to pass smog at the same time. I'm sorry to have to take the group around this problem, but I've exhausted the bmw related forums. I do have a shop here who, I think, would be able to work with me to try to trouble shoot this problem with all the correct equipment, but I feel I should be armed with some real information with which to negotiate this research. Thanks again very much for your time, and I hope there can be some resolution here for me. Vladimir Vooss - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:45:54 -0600 (CST) From: Roger Heflin Subject: Re: Dual ign system question On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, steve ravet wrote: > Garfield was looking for some heavy duty diodes for his ION project. > Maybe you could ask him? > > Are the two systems going to be permanently installed together, or is > this just a "for now" arrangement? > The best idea would seem to leave both of the permanently installed together. The distributor system has certain issues (ie the dist like part costs $300 or so and is less than easy to replace). What I would need to do is test both systems every so often to verify each system by itself was fully operational. Roger - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 14:59:21 -0500 From: "nacelp" Subject: Re: Dual ign system question I thought someone here or at gmecm, posted a part no. for the optical reader. I've heard of a guy saving some by just cleaning off the TX/RX in the optical unit. Grumpy > The best idea would seem to leave both of the permanently installed > together. The distributor system has certain issues (ie the dist like > part costs $300 or so and is less than easy to replace). > What I would need to do is test both systems every so often to verify > each system by itself was fully operational. > Roger - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 14:05:29 -0600 (CST) From: Roger Heflin Subject: Re: Dual ign system question The distributor part (just the cap and rotor) is close to $150 by itself, the optical part is $140, so both together (rebuilt are about $300). A new one from GM is only $350. Most of the ones that I have heard that cleaned them off only fixed things for a short period of time. Roger On Thu, 17 Feb 2000, nacelp wrote: > I thought someone here or at gmecm, posted a part no. for the optical > reader. > I've heard of a guy saving some by just cleaning off the TX/RX in the > optical unit. > Grumpy > > > > > The best idea would seem to leave both of the permanently installed > > together. The distributor system has certain issues (ie the dist like > > part costs $300 or so and is less than easy to replace). > > What I would need to do is test both systems every so often to verify > > each system by itself was fully operational. > > Roger > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 12:27:43 -0800 From: garwillis@xxx.com (Garfield Willis) Subject: Re: Dual ign system question On Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:13:27 -0600, steve ravet wrote: >Garfield was looking for some heavy duty diodes for his ION project. >Maybe you could ask him? > >Are the two systems going to be permanently installed together, or is >this just a "for now" arrangement? > >> One side of that coil is grounded right? So putting 50kv a the coil >> terminal (not generated from the coil) would short to ground through >> the unenergized coil, so you would need something to prevent the >> backflow. So for each wire I would need sets of diodes to stop the >> expected voltage which could be a problem. >> >> Still thinking about what the isses with implementing this sort of >> thing are. Hi Steve, Bruce, Roger. Bruce was right, the MSD device is the way to go, and yes it's built with HV diodes. But methinks it's crazy to worry about tryna package one of these up, when you can buy exactly what you need for around $50 IIRC, made with the right HV potting and insulation material, and with a history of reliability. If you think sourcing the diodes is problematic (FAGOR and FUJI make some, I'd have to dig out the info), consider the HV packaging you need to worry about when you have two towers standing off each other by 50KV. Not to mention assembling it in such a way that water entrainment can't happen. Some thot/work there; life is short, get the thang from MSD. BTW, you can run both systems together; it just means you have the current drain of two IGN systems, that's why the switch. When (widely, btw) used on experimental aircraft like Bruce alluded to, during takeoff and landing, both IGN systems are run in parallel for safety. In cruise at altitude, one is switched off to reduce ALT load and thermal wearNtear on the IGN stuff, because there, if you have a failure in one IGN system, you have time/altitude to switch to the other. During TO/LNDG you might not. Also, without some way of switching just one in at a time, you don't have a way of testing/knowing if one of them has failed, and you're actually running with no backup. Oops, I noticed Roger just mentioned this as I was typing away. Gar - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 00:06:15 +0100 From: "Espen Hilde" Subject: Re: Mass airflow sensors. Hi! http://www.autospeed.com/ had an article on about the same thing as you try to do. They used 2 pots to scale the new bigger MAF with bigger injectors to the car.If you just made the sampling part of the MAF into a bigger tube ......or create a leak.(Just guessing here:-)) I would put the orginal injectors back and you have as you have stated an advanced setup for emisions and consumption. just buy an Haltec efi controller and use it to drive the other set of injectors you have .Haltec is easy to use and you can start deliver at 0,2 bar. It wont take care of the timing , thats where the horses are hiding. Espen - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 15:41:52 -0800 From: "Andrew Brownsword" Subject: Re: Mass airflow sensors. As I said before, we've considered the other options and have discarded them. Injecting into the intake manifold was dismissed because of the very convoluted V-configuration manifold. Unacceptable puddling and uneven distribution among the cylinders would results (and has for one or two of the people who have tried on these cars). An FMU to raise the fuel pressure doesn't work because the stock injectors are too weak. An aftermarket ECU is too expensive and doesn't support emissions & the dual O2s. I've read the AutoSpeed article. It doesn't directly apply because they were working on a car that already had a MAF, I believe. Mine has a VAF in its stock condition, and this device has inherent limits that I need to eliminate -- thus switching to a MAF I have now come into possession of an Excel spreadsheet with the flowbench results from 11 Mustang MAFs.. many many thanks to the individual who provided it. This is exact what I needed, so I feel that I can proceed from here. Thanks to everyone who sent me suggestions and information! Cheers, Andrew - -----Original Message----- From: Espen Hilde To: diy_efi@xxx.org> Date: Thursday, February 17, 2000 3:12 PM Subject: Re: Mass airflow sensors. >Hi! >http://www.autospeed.com/ had an article on about the same thing as you >try to do. They used 2 pots to scale the new bigger MAF with bigger >injectors to the car.If you just made the sampling part of the MAF into >a bigger tube ......or create a leak.(Just guessing here:-)) >I would put the orginal injectors back and you have as you have stated an >advanced setup for emisions and consumption. >just buy an Haltec efi controller and use it to drive the other set of >injectors >you have .Haltec is easy to use and you can start deliver at 0,2 bar. >It wont take care of the timing , thats where the horses are hiding. >Espen >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - >To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) >in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 02:46:07 +1100 From: Phil Lamovie Subject: Peak temp of combustion Perfect topic for flame war !!! The highest combustion temps occur at Lambda 1.1 This also coincides with peak NOx development as NOx is temperature dependent. Unfortunately for petrol it is also the highest thermal eff. This gives rise to the expression " lean cruise " a trick the manufacturers use to artificially raise the fuel economy numbers. The drive cycle test do not use a speed higher than 92 km/hr so the script kiddies at the ECU mapping centers write little algs such as is vehicle speed 95 km/hr + is the engine temp over 65 deg/C has the throttle movt. been less than 5% per 10 sec is the rate of accel less than 5% goto lean burn table Reason for the table is simple. The A/F ratio is beyond the range of that technological slight of hand the oxygen " switch ". Phil - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V5 #66 **************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".