DIY_EFI Digest Friday, February 25 2000 Volume 05 : Number 074 In this issue: Re: EFI newbiee ideas, few questions. Re: EFI newbiee ideas, few questions. Re: EFI newbiee ideas, few questions. Re: EFI newbiee ideas, few questions. Learning capability of Rover MEMS Re: DIY_EFI Digest V5 #73 Re: EFI newbiee ideas, few questions. Re: Daewoo ECU wiring online Re: Daewoo ECU wiring online Motorola S code to binary conversion program/utility See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 03:39:46 -0500 (EST) From: Mary or Stephen Burgess Subject: Re: EFI newbiee ideas, few questions. At 06:51 PM 2/23/00 -0800, you wrote: >I just discovered this list a few days ago and I am reading everything I >can. Fascinating stuff. Just got a few questions and "what ifs" > >First off my project is to "convert" a 1969 Austin Healey Sprite (1275 cc >inline 4) to Throttle Port Injection. I would hopefully keep my carbs and >just use them as throttle bodies and fabricate a piece that would fit >between the carb body and the manifold with the injector. X2 for both carbs. >I'm still in the research stage BTW. > >As I understand it, fuel injection lets you keep the fuel ratio to a perfect >14.7 mixture throughout the RPM band. The injectors know how much they are >injecting therefore the only other variable is knowing how much air is going >into the engine. As I understand it, there are 3 ways to do this. > >1) A "mass air flow" sensor that somehow measures the amount (and pressure) >of air coming into the engine and then in turn lets the ECU know and the ECU >calculates how much fuel the injectors need to inject. > >2) An o2 sensor down the exhaust pipe inorder to tell the ECU how much more, >or less fuel in needs too inject on the next stroke to maintain the exhaust >o2 levels low therefore indirectly keeping the ratio correct to a 14.7 > >3) A throttle position sensor that just tells the ECU to inject more (pedal >to the metal) or less (idle) fuel into the system. This last choice seems to >be the "dumbest" method of doing it. It also depends on some kind of >variable in the ECU to know how much air is going into the engine for a >certain throttle position. > >So my question is, as I understand it, modern cars have all 3? is this just >to be redundant and to MAKE SURE the mix is correct? Couldn't I just get by >with some sort of mass air flow sensor (#1). If I would ever supercharge in >the future, or I took the car too a higher altitude, I wouldn't have to >touch anything (just make sure the injectors are big enough to be able to >inject that much more fuel for SuperCharging.) > >Thanks for your help. Let me know if my logic is no good either. Just knowing how much air is moving into the engine, does'nt really give you much more control over the fueling than carbs. Air has temp and density differences that would throw out your perfect 14.7 Modern cars are using a multiple of sensors that may seem redundant, but serve the purposes of providing performance, and economy - for example the "stupid" throttle position sensor is used as part of engine loading calculations in a throttle position vs. rpm comparison - a 14.7 mixture may not be best torque for your engine, and at 1100 rpm with WOT you would want best torque for performance, while partial throttle at 1100 you might want some economy and the ECU should select a leaner than 14.7 mixture for best lean cruise (that's a naughty thing now, but I don't know what else to call it) O2 sensors provide closed loop feedback of what really happened in the combustion chamber, and adjustments if necessary are made to the ignition timing or mixture, depending on the condition of the other sensors too. You may want to check out Kinsler Fuel injection's web site www.kinsler.com, they sell mechanical fuel injection systems that would serve your purpose as easily as a air flow only fuel injection system - basically mechanical injection has the engine drive a mechanical fuel pump, that as the engine speed increases so does the pump speed. The output of fuel to the engine is increased as the pump speed increases - kinda like a MAF only system would see the engine breathing more air as the rpm's increased and deliver more fuel regardless of any other conditions. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:40:26 -0500 From: Jan Ben Subject: Re: EFI newbiee ideas, few questions. OK, I asked this before, but maybe in context of this question it would spark more interest.. :) It would be nice to be able to (cheaply) collect data on the go. If I could get even 8 channels (ign, tps, lambda, etc etc) recorded on either audio tape or 8mm video, I could then read it in w. a sound or a tuner card. DSP SW for PC is cheap/free.. could also set it up as a scope for "live" debugging.. video RF encoders are like $4.. what abt. just jeneric RF encoders- maybe $1 from radio shack? The bandwidth needed for this is prob well below 1KHZ, well within what can be recorder even w. a cheap tape recorder.. c'mon guys.. you can do this in your sleep.. help out a mech/sw guy here.. Jan - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:57:19 -0500 From: "nacelp" Subject: Re: EFI newbiee ideas, few questions. Personally I use Diacom+, while initially expensive, in a long run it's cheap. radio shack sells some data recorders. While the above aren't DIY, they are alternatives. There have been a few threads about using a sound card for that. Several long ones about gathering engine accleration rates, using a HV sensor on a plug wire. Grumpy Might have been over sparked, and more info is in the archives?. > OK, I asked this before, but maybe in context of this question it would spark > more interest.. :) > > It would be nice to be able to (cheaply) collect data on the go. > If I could get even 8 channels (ign, tps, lambda, etc etc) recorded on either > audio tape or 8mm video, I could then read it in w. a sound or a tuner card. > DSP SW for PC is cheap/free.. could also set it up as a scope for "live" > debugging.. > video RF encoders are like $4.. what abt. just jeneric RF encoders- maybe $1 > from radio shack? The bandwidth needed for this is prob well below 1KHZ, well > within what can be recorder even w. a cheap tape recorder.. > > c'mon guys.. you can do this in your sleep.. help out a mech/sw guy here.. > Jan > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 13:33:37 -0500 From: Jan Ben Subject: Re: EFI newbiee ideas, few questions. > Grumpy > Might have been over sparked, and more info is in the archives?. ^^^^^ hey, how didja get the nickname? :) thx for the tip, I'll look. rgds Jan - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 18:43:38 +0000 From: Ade + Lamb Chop Subject: Learning capability of Rover MEMS Hi All, I have a Rover Mini fitted with MEMS (twin point). If I modify the Exhaust, fit a free flowing Air filter... gas flowed head etc. Will the ECU adjust to the new bits under all conditions or just when it using the lamda sensor?? I am worried that it will be OK when running on the Lamda but not OK at WOT which I understand it uses a different (richer fuel map)... Also will the Cold running stuff be rich enough?? Thanx, Ade - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 07:57:53 +0800 From: dzorde@xxx.com Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V5 #73 Wouter, if its of any help. I'm pretty sure the motor is the German built Opel engine (German GM), so I would think you may need to look at code from European built GM cars as they probably did the code as well. Dan dzorde@xxx.com Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 16:13:26 +0200 From: wrm@xxx.za (Wouter de Waal) Subject: Daewoo ECU wiring online Hi all I finally found the wiring diagram for the Daewoo Cielo 1500 4 cyl. Some of you might remember, I was asking questions about this thing some time ago. Someone said that it's a standard '808 ECU, someone else differed. I ripped the EPROM, it's in a blue carrier labelled labelled DELCO BWJT 0723, but the code inside is totally different from the '165 or '808 code I've seen. Tables are similar, 3 bytes before the table etc. I've compared the wiring diagram to 89-165v8MAF and V8wire, those two are similar but quite different from what I have. So, I still don't know what kind of a box this is. The engine is GM, BTW. I've put the pinouts at http://www.retro.co.za/daewoo-ecm-wiring.html for those of you that are interested. I'll probably scan it in when I get a chance too. Wouter - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: 25 Feb 2000 14:44:54 +1200 From: "Tom Parker" Subject: Re: EFI newbiee ideas, few questions. Toby Atwater wrote: >I just discovered this list a few days ago and I am reading everything I >can. Fascinating stuff. Just got a few questions and "what ifs" >First off my project is to "convert" a 1969 Austin Healey Sprite (1275 cc >inline 4) to Throttle Port Injection. I would hopefully keep my carbs and >just use them as throttle bodies and fabricate a piece that would fit >between the carb body and the manifold with the injector. X2 for both carbs. >I'm still in the research stage BTW. I won't tell you too much about engine control theory, as others here are far more qualified to speak, but do listen to them, as what you suggest needs revising a bit. Anyway, you've got a fairly unique engine in that it has four cyclinders and two inlet ports. This makes efi a little more complicated than if there were 4 ports (I'm assuming you don't have an 8 port head). The sucking order of the ports is 1-1-2-2-1-1-2-2... If you modify an OEM system (GM parts seem to be commonly used here) to work with your engine then you will have trouble getting it to drive two injectors in the correct order. I guess you could use a custom driver between the OEM driver and the injectors to add the signal for the approprate cyclinders to make one injector behave like two. The problem here is what happens if the ecu wants to turn on the injector for cyclinder 3 and 4 at the same time? The other approch is to mount four injectors in the manifold and then the control problems dissapear. However squeasing four injectors onto an A series inlet will be interesting. I'm not saying that this project is impossible, as Rover have done this on modern Mini Coopers, but they were able to modify the OEM computer. - -- Tom Parker - parkert@xxx.nz - http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Track/8381/ - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:11:51 +0200 From: wrm@xxx.za (Wouter de Waal) Subject: Re: Daewoo ECU wiring online Hi Ludis & all! >By blue carrier, do you mean a brown or black bottom with a blue cover >and the EPROM and two other small chips inside? This was a while ago. The EPROM is soldered to two rows of sockets, and the whole thing is inside a plastic carrier. There's two rows of molex header type pins on the PCB, and a plastic arrangement, the two plastic parts are keyed so that you can't stick any EPROM into any ECM. I assume the color and the keying go together. I can't remember if both sides were blue or not. The carrier contains just the EPROM. I stuck short bits of wire into the sockets, and then stuck the wires into my EXPRO programmer, and read the EPROM like that. I read it as 64K, but it wraps, i.e. it's a 32K image. Wouter - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 12:06:06 +0200 From: wrm@xxx.za (Wouter de Waal) Subject: Re: Daewoo ECU wiring online Hi again ftp.diy-efi.org/incoming/daewoo-cielo-1500-4cyl.bin Forgot to mention that it's manual, like 90% of the cars in South Africa. Wouter - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 08:01:42 -0500 From: "Jason R. Haines" Subject: Motorola S code to binary conversion program/utility This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BF7F66.8D37CF60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am looking for a program to convert Motorola S code to binary format. = Anyone know of a good program to use? PS - I have a new version of my misc. automotive formulas spreadsheet = (Excel) that is on the FTP site, how do I get a new version of it on the = FTP site? Thanks, Jason R. Haines - ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BF7F66.8D37CF60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am looking for a program to convert = Motorola S=20 code to binary format. Anyone know of a good program to = use?
 
PS - I have a new version of my misc. = automotive=20 formulas spreadsheet (Excel) that is on the FTP site, how do I get a new = version=20 of it on the FTP site?
 
Thanks,
 

Jason R. = Haines
- ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BF7F66.8D37CF60-- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V5 #74 **************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".