DIY_EFI Digest Saturday, March 11 2000 Volume 05 : Number 098 In this issue: Re: O2 sensor Voltage Re: Electronic Transmission Control Re: Electronic Transmission Control Re: AFM measurement/backpressure (was Turbo speed sensor) Re: Compact Flash - how to drive it? Re: AFM measurement/backpressure (was Turbo speed sensor) Re: Turbo speed sensor going to use optics instead ? Re: AFM measurement/backpressure (was Turbo speed sensor) Re: AFM measurement/backpressure (was Turbo speed sensor) Re: AFM measurement/backpressure (was Turbo speed sensor) Re: AFM measurement/backpressure (was Turbo speed sensor) Re: AFM measurement/backpressure Re: AFM measurement/backpressure Re: Compact Flash - how to drive it? server Re: server Re: server Re: server Re: Electronic Transmission Control Re: AFM measurement/backpressure Circuit simulation Re: AFM measurement/backpressure (was Turbo speed sensor) Re: AFM measurement/backpressure Stratified Charge DI with EGR (was: AFM measurement/backpressure) Re: Stratified Charge DI with EGR (was: AFM measurement/backpressure) Re: Compact Flash - how to drive it? See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 09:02:16 -0500 From: Joeo Subject: Re: O2 sensor Voltage Steve Leonard wrote: > > I need to alter the voltage signal coming from a O2 sensor. I want to fool > the ECU into a leaner condition. > I am going to school, driving 110mi round trip. I want to see how much > fuel mileage I can sqeeze out of my Geo Metro. Where can I get plans for a > simple voltage "stepper". > > regards > > John > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org Hi, Was just thinking that it would be much easier to modify the signal from the air flow meter to the ECU. This is the 'main' signal that the ECU uses to detemine fuel flow. Not sure how the Metro is... Just a thought... joeo - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 08:32:28 -0500 From: "Peter D. Hipson" Subject: Re: Electronic Transmission Control - ------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 11:24:40 -0500 THe Hummer has a diesel engine and a 4L80E. The TCM is only (really) about $150 to 200. You need a TPS, and engine RPM signal. Otherwise, the 4L80E is easy to control, you could build you own if you wanted. >From: "Gwyn Reedy" >Subject: Electronic Transmission Control > >I've picked up a good 4L80E transmission out of a '94 pickup for use in a >project that won't have EFI. Aftermarket vendors want from $900 to $2000 for >a computer to control the transmission. Way too much. > >What would it take to make the EMC out of a similar vehicle and get it to >ignore all but TPS and VSS so it can control the transmission? > >Any other suggestions? > >Gwyn Reedy >Brandon, Florida >mailto:mgr@xxx.com > >- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) >in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org > >------------------------------ Thanks, Peter Hipson (founder, NEHOG) 1995 White NA Hummer Wagon - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 09:42:08 -0500 From: "Swayze" Subject: Re: Electronic Transmission Control I priced a diesel controller from junkyard at $75. is there a .bin file somewhere for the controller?(or hacs). byE Mike (coming out of digest mode) Swayze mswayze@xxx.com kswayze@xxx.net - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter D. Hipson" To: Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2000 8:32 AM Subject: Re: Electronic Transmission Control > ------------------------------ > > > >Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 11:24:40 -0500 > THe Hummer has a diesel engine and a 4L80E. The TCM is only (really) about > $150 to 200. You need a TPS, and engine RPM signal. Otherwise, the 4L80E is - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 07:58:25 -0700 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: AFM measurement/backpressure (was Turbo speed sensor) >A little EGR and you need to retard a little more over some threshold >and oyu need to advance again. I remember something in SAE about this >but it was almost 20 years ago and my memory is dynamic ;) > What you are really saying here is that IF you have poor fuel atomization, a little bit of EGR helps it, and thus speeds up the burn, but after the atomization is helped, then the true nature of EGR--slowing down the burn--comes into effect. Greg - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 23:32:03 From: "Mike (Perth, Western Australia)" Subject: Re: Compact Flash - how to drive it? At 04:36 PM 10/3/2000 +0800, you wrote: >Time for another dumb question ... > >How hard is it to drive a compact-flash? I'm considering it as an >option for data-logging using the SPI from an Atmel 8535... There are heaps of SPI eeproms around (in USA) not many sampled in Australia, i2c seems to be the most available... >Any definitive URL's with spec's and supplies for connectors, etc. >would be welcome. Suggest you join the atmel users group, I've been on it for a while and has all sorts of nice gear, send the message 'join' in subject and body to Rgds ~`:o) Mike Massen Trading as "Network Power Systems" and "Network Computers" Perth, Western Australia Ph +61 8 9444 8961 Fx +618 9264 8229 (fax -> email) Products/Personal/Client web area at http://www.wantree.com.au/~erazmus (Current pics - trip to Malaysia to install equipment in jungle power site) Some say there is no magic but, all things begin with thought then it becomes academic, then some poor slob works out a practical way to implement all that theory, this is called Engineering - for most people another form of magic. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 23:38:20 From: "Mike (Perth, Western Australia)" Subject: Re: AFM measurement/backpressure (was Turbo speed sensor) At 07:58 AM 10/3/2000 -0700, bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) wrote: >>A little EGR and you need to retard a little more over some threshold >>and oyu need to advance again. I remember something in SAE about this >>but it was almost 20 years ago and my memory is dynamic ;) >What you are really saying here is that IF you have poor fuel atomization, >a little bit of EGR helps it, and thus speeds up the burn, but after the >atomization is helped, then the true nature of EGR--slowing down the >burn--comes into effect. no i didn't mention fuel atomisaton at all, yours your inference, which may very well be valid - I just don't know, though there is some logic to it. I guess with TBI its less of an issue, unless the EGR is plumbed in "way' upstream from the manifold and near the TBI unit - perhaps ? I'm not acquainted with separate EGR at all, just have vague recollections of a couple of articles and that particular one said something about the non-linear relationship. I suppose if we want reasonable power then minimal EGR would be the order of the day - but if you want good power why introduce an inert gas - better to work on cooling inlet charge, increasing octane etc. Rgds ~`:o) Mike Massen Trading as "Network Power Systems" and "Network Computers" Perth, Western Australia Ph +61 8 9444 8961 Fx +618 9264 8229 (fax -> email) Products/Personal/Client web area at http://www.wantree.com.au/~erazmus (Current pics - trip to Malaysia to install equipment in jungle power site) Some say there is no magic but, all things begin with thought then it becomes academic, then some poor slob works out a practical way to implement all that theory, this is called Engineering - for most people another form of magic. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 00:11:06 From: "Mike (Perth, Western Australia)" Subject: Re: Turbo speed sensor going to use optics instead ? At 03:08 PM 10/3/2000 +0800, you wrote: >>Yeah good point, mine is a $15 cheapy 3 cells, no cct - just resistor to >>laser led, I'm getting a fast slew rate opto transistor sensor in next few >>days - so will rig it up with a CRO to check, tah > >Keep in mind that most "consumer" electronics bits are only rated to >just 55C. The laser diodes can get hot by themselves I hear - though I've >never noticed it on the few occasions where I've used a laser pointer. This is a cheapey and I can mount it in a relatively cool air stream, perhaps by darwinian selection I'll replace it ;-) >A large proportion of consumer stuff dies if you leave it in the >car, in the sun. Not just plastic warping, etc, but semiconductors >"blowing" if you try to use them before they've cooled. Yeah true, depends where you put it, I have an AFM amp near the left strut - plenty cool enough, except in our hottest summers perhaps, wonder what you chaps in NY would do with a 45deg C day ;-) Tah, Rgds ~`:o) Mike Massen Trading as "Network Power Systems" and "Network Computers" Perth, Western Australia Ph +61 8 9444 8961 Fx +618 9264 8229 (fax -> email) Products/Personal/Client web area at http://www.wantree.com.au/~erazmus (Current pics - trip to Malaysia to install equipment in jungle power site) Some say there is no magic but, all things begin with thought then it becomes academic, then some poor slob works out a practical way to implement all that theory, this is called Engineering - for most people another form of magic. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 18:18:58 +0000 From: Ade + Lamb Chop Subject: Re: AFM measurement/backpressure (was Turbo speed sensor) At 13:11 08/03/00 -0500, nacelp wrote: > > >> Do I get the impresion that AFM's in the USA are mostly the flap type, > >None that I can recall. Lucas/Bosch systems use them, and patent leasees of >them. >Numerically probably MAP is most common, then hot wire, and then combos of >MAP/hot wire. >Grumpy So what is the best way?? The rover system uses MAP and inlet air temperature... Ade - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Mar 2000 18:18:58 +0000 From: Ade + Lamb Chop Subject: Re: AFM measurement/backpressure (was Turbo speed sensor) At 13:11 08/03/00 -0500, nacelp wrote: > > >> Do I get the impresion that AFM's in the USA are mostly the flap type, > >None that I can recall. Lucas/Bosch systems use them, and patent leasees of >them. >Numerically probably MAP is most common, then hot wire, and then combos of >MAP/hot wire. >Grumpy So what is the best way?? The rover system uses MAP and inlet air temperature... Ade - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 13:16:20 -0500 From: "nacelp" Subject: Re: AFM measurement/backpressure (was Turbo speed sensor) > >> Do I get the impresion that AFM's in the USA are mostly the flap type, > >None that I can recall. Lucas/Bosch systems use them, and patent leasees of > >them. > >Numerically probably MAP is most common, then hot wire, and then combos of > >MAP/hot wire. > >Grumpy > So what is the best way?? The archives, have a ton of info., on that. Personally I like MAP. But, there are others that scream, that MAF is better. Ideally, a large MAF (with alot of resolution), with MAP for transitions, would be the best, again, IMHO. Grumpy The rover system uses MAP and inlet air > temperature... > Ade - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 02:35:37 From: "Mike (Perth, Western Australia)" Subject: Re: AFM measurement/backpressure (was Turbo speed sensor) At 06:18 PM 9/3/2000 +0000, Ade + Lamb Chop wrote: >>Numerically probably MAP is most common, then hot wire, and then combos of >>MAP/hot wire. >>Grumpy > >So what is the best way?? The rover system uses MAP and inlet air >temperature... It all depends, heaps of factors - mostly cost related, volume, production, etc etc Personally I prefer AFM, that way most changes are automatically picked up by changes in air flow... Especially since I intend to change exh manifold and when I get time a more radical inlet - I'd rather AFM for that reason. MAP has its uses but I don't have the experience or equipment to retune for MAP etc. PS: WHy are we getting two messages from you ? Rgds ~`:o) Mike Massen Trading as "Network Power Systems" and "Network Computers" Perth, Western Australia Ph +61 8 9444 8961 Fx +618 9264 8229 (fax -> email) Products/Personal/Client web area at http://www.wantree.com.au/~erazmus (Current pics - trip to Malaysia to install equipment in jungle power site) Some say there is no magic but, all things begin with thought then it becomes academic, then some poor slob works out a practical way to implement all that theory, this is called Engineering - for most people another form of magic. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Mar 100 09:34:32 +0800 (WST) From: Bernd Felsche Subject: Re: AFM measurement/backpressure Ade + Lamb Chop writes: >At 13:11 08/03/00 -0500, nacelp wrote: >>> Do I get the impresion that AFM's in the USA are mostly the flap type, >>None that I can recall. Lucas/Bosch systems use them, and patent leasees of >>them. >>Numerically probably MAP is most common, then hot wire, and then combos of >>MAP/hot wire. >So what is the best way?? The rover system uses MAP and inlet air >temperature... Even hot-wire is passé. :-) The latest Bosch MED Motronic (for direct-injection (DI), stratified-charge gasoline engines) uses a version of hot-film (HFM5) that's sensitive to the flow direction. That's necessary with the DI system because they run it with WOT at low loads, using controlled, external EGR to reduce the engine's output - by varying its displacement if you like. MED also employs a MAP sensor to aid in selection of operating mode for EGR. [More on EGR later.] The engine is naturally-aspirated. Ref. Bosch "Ottomotor-Motormanagement", 1st Edition (1998) Dipl. Ing. (FH) Horst Bauer - Editor ISBN 3-528-03877-2 !!! NB: German text. If you're running a supercharger, then you need to know the manifold pressure as it acts as a reservoir for air - you need to know how much air is in there for transitional throttle response. You do need to be aware of its limitations because of the pressure pulses which occur as valves open and close - taking into account the delays through the inlet tracts. The mass-flow meter is _potentially_ more accurate for steady flow. - -- Real Name: Bernd Felsche Email: nospam.bernie@xxx.au http://www.perth.dialix.com.au/~bernie - Private HP - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Mar 100 10:18:07 +0800 (WST) From: Bernd Felsche Subject: Re: AFM measurement/backpressure Mike writes: >At 07:58 AM 10/3/2000 -0700, bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) wrote: >>>A little EGR and you need to retard a little more over some threshold >>>and oyu need to advance again. I remember something in SAE about this >>>but it was almost 20 years ago and my memory is dynamic ;) >>What you are really saying here is that IF you have poor fuel atomization, >>a little bit of EGR helps it, and thus speeds up the burn, but after the >>atomization is helped, then the true nature of EGR--slowing down the >>burn--comes into effect. >no i didn't mention fuel atomisaton at all, yours your inference, which >may very well be valid - I just don't know, though there is some logic >to it. I guess with TBI its less of an issue, unless the EGR is plumbed in >"way' upstream from the manifold and near the TBI unit - perhaps ? >I'm not acquainted with separate EGR at all, just have vague recollections >of a couple of articles and that particular one said something about the >non-linear relationship. I suppose if we want reasonable power then minimal >EGR would be the order of the day - but if you want good power why introduce >an inert gas - better to work on cooling inlet charge, increasing octane etc. "Knock Suppression in a Turbocharged SI Engine Using Cooled EGR" has some interesting things to say about that. SAE paper 932476 I'll post a summary this weekend after I've absorbed it properly. The impatient can download the document from the www.sae.org site. (Costs US$10.) There's an SAE book SP-1393 "SI Engines: Combustion and Emission Formation" which includes that paper as well as two dozen others, half of which are relevant to either knock or EGR. A followup paper, SAE 1999-01-3505 "Replacing Fuel Enrichment in a Turbo Charge SI Engine: Lean Burn or Cooled EGR" exists, but I haven't yet downloaded it. It's contained in "Combustion and Emission Formation in SI Engines" (SP-1485) which contains several other papers which may be of interest so I might just order that book instead. See http://www.sae.org/products/topics/GV_SI_P.htm for a summary of papers, etc. - -- Real Name: Bernd Felsche Email: nospam.bernie@xxx.au http://www.perth.dialix.com.au/~bernie - Private HP - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Mar 100 10:29:01 +0800 (WST) From: Bernd Felsche Subject: Re: Compact Flash - how to drive it? Mike writes: >At 04:36 PM 10/3/2000 +0800, you wrote: >>Time for another dumb question ... >> >>How hard is it to drive a compact-flash? I'm considering it as an >>option for data-logging using the SPI from an Atmel 8535... >There are heaps of SPI eeproms around (in USA) not many sampled in Australia, >i2c seems to be the most available... I was looking for data on how to drive the commodity compact-flash devices actually. I already have a data sheet on how to flash one of the Atmel chips directly, but then I need to either download to a "real computer" for detailed analysis, or develop a "carrier" to plug into the desktop. (In theory, I could drive it off a parallel port, but that's not as "neat", nor do many Palmtops have those ports.) If the CF devices are I2C, then that's no big deal. >>Any definitive URL's with spec's and supplies for connectors, etc. >>would be welcome. >Suggest you join the atmel users group, I've been on it for a while and >has all sorts of nice gear, send the message 'join' in subject and >body to Thanks for the pointer. I'm already on half a dozen mailing lists delivering over 200 messages a day. Might sign up for a week to see if I can keep up with traffic. - -- Real Name: Bernd Felsche Email: nospam.bernie@xxx.au http://www.perth.dialix.com.au/~bernie - Private HP - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:09:00 +1000 From: Geoff Campbell Subject: server Is there a problem with the server? I would like to check out the GMECM data but can't get in. Is it something this end? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 23:17:44 -0500 From: "nacelp" Subject: Re: server Everything but the archives works. I think they are still a work in progress Grumpy > Is there a problem with the server? > I would like to check out the GMECM data but can't get in. > Is it something this end? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:54:21 +1000 From: "Geoff, Kate & Theo Campbell" Subject: Re: server Thanx. Just what I needed to hear. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 00:07:32 -0500 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: server The archives are still at the old sites. There is a gap for the period after the move. Hopefully, someone is collecting the files for the new site. Shannen Geoff, Kate & Theo Campbell wrote: > > Thanx. Just what I needed to hear. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 23:42:42 -0600 From: Tom Sharpe Subject: Re: Electronic Transmission Control Doug Dayson wrote: > Hi All... > > Note that the mid 1988 and later 700R4...4L60...and 4L60E's are essentially > identical with the exception of the E's electronic controls... > > The aftermarket can add "beef" to the 700 family to approximately 450 ft/lbs > (TCI/B+M)...475ft/lbs (Premier Performance/Toy Shop)...and 500ft/lbs is > claimed by Art Carr... > > Not sure about the stock 2004R's torque rating except that "stock" it's > somewhat less than the "stock" 700 family... Any one claim that a 200R4 can handle 500+ FT LBS. HOW MUCH CAN IT HANDLE??? > .however a > friend's 89 Vette equipped with a 535ft/lb Lingenfelter Super Ram'd stroker > can't keep a 700R4 in one piece for long with Drag Radials...he's thinking > 4L80E (if it'll fit?)... > > Ratio comparison... > > 700R4/4L60/4L60E ratio's...3.06...1.62...1.00...0.70 > > 2004R ratio's...2.75...1.57...1.00...0.67 > > 4L80E ratio's...2.48...1.48...1.00...0.75 > > TH-400 ratio's...2.48...1.48...1.00 > > TH-350 ratio's...2.52...1.52...1.00 from th '60s (and still valid), you need ~ 12.5/1 in first w/ small slicks or drag radials. > The 4L80E is perhaps the best bet from a racer's or towing standpoint as it's > got the closest ratio spread and it's torque capacity is the highest...but > it's physically longer and slightly larger in diameter than it's cousin the > TH-400...and it weighs 100 lbs more than the others excepting the TH-400...and > it's parasitic drain is about 50HP more than the others... > > Also of note concerning the 4L80E's...I've heard that their sprags are weak > compared to a TH-400's...fortunately the TH-400 sprags will retrofit... I'm running a T350 and 10" converter and 2.75 axle because 700R4's annual costs are too high. TomS - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Mar 100 14:30:47 +0800 (WST) From: Bernd Felsche Subject: Re: AFM measurement/backpressure I wrote: >Ref. Bosch "Ottomotor-Motormanagement", > 1st Edition (1998) > Dipl. Ing. (FH) Horst Bauer - Editor > ISBN 3-528-03877-2 > !!! NB: German text. There's an English-language edition available through SAE http://www.sae.org/products/books/BOSCH-G2000.htm (Just found it) "Gasoline Engine Management" ISBN Number: 0-7680-0510-8 Number of Pages: 372 Number of Chapters: 10 Binding: Hardbound Order Number: BOSCH-G2000 Price US$42 - -- Real Name: Bernd Felsche Email: nospam.bernie@xxx.au http://www.perth.dialix.com.au/~bernie - Private HP - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 02:20:29 -0600 From: MysticZ Subject: Circuit simulation Does anyone know of any decent circuit simulation software? I'd prefer something I don't have to spend any cash on since I'll only use it occasionally. I'm working on a little project to see what I can figure out about strange logic circuits before I dive into the EFI setup for the Ninja. This is just a little box that has 3 audio inputs: radar detector, CB, and tape/radio (a Rio in my case), and one output for headphones (or more specifically helmet speakers since this is for a motorcycle). The radar detector input has the highest priority, the Rio input the lowest. If while riding along listening to the Rio, the radar detector goes off, the input from the Rio is disabled and the radar detector takes over. Get the idea? So far I've come up with a circuit using AND gates and inverters but the truth tables keep coming up with a couple of errors and I need a way to simulate it before I hunt down the components. Since I'm at least a little sane still I plan on using optoisolators to keep strange things from getting to the goodies plugged into the inputs and frying them. Once I figure out how to make this work I'll be one step closer to the EFI setup. Anyone have an idea? - -- Steve 97 Chevy Camaro Z28, Mystic teal, A4, not stock 90 Kawasaki EX500A4, black, M6, not even CLOSE to stock! lt1_z28@xxx.net/~lt1_z28 Aluminum, steel, carbon fiber, titanium, and two cast iron balls. McMillan Motorsports- http://www.mmsbikes.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 08:24:46 +0000 From: Ade + Lamb Chop Subject: Re: AFM measurement/backpressure (was Turbo speed sensor) At 13:16 10/03/00 -0500, nacelp wrote: >> >> Do I get the impresion that AFM's in the USA are mostly the flap type, >> >None that I can recall. Lucas/Bosch systems use them, and patent leasees >of >> >them. >> >Numerically probably MAP is most common, then hot wire, and then combos >of >> >MAP/hot wire. >> >Grumpy >> So what is the best way?? > >The archives, have a ton of info., on that. Personally I like MAP. But, >there are others that scream, that MAF is better. Ideally, a large MAF >(with alot of resolution), with MAP for transitions, would be the best, >again, IMHO. >Grumpy Unfortunatly I don't have direct access to the net ATM so the archives are a little difficult to get to. Do all systems with systems with AFMs have a map sensor? If not how do they cope with boost? Thanx, Ade - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 08:30:30 +0000 From: Ade + Lamb Chop Subject: Re: AFM measurement/backpressure At 09:34 11/03/00 +0800, Bernd Felsche wrote: >>>None that I can recall. Lucas/Bosch systems use them, and patent leasees of >>>them. >>>Numerically probably MAP is most common, then hot wire, and then combos of >>>MAP/hot wire. > >>So what is the best way?? The rover system uses MAP and inlet air >>temperature... > >Even hot-wire is passé. :-) How does hot wire work?? Is is a little heater that uses X power then you measure the temperature... more airflow the more heat is taken from the heater?? Surely you would also need air temperature, or am I completly off... >The latest Bosch MED Motronic (for direct-injection (DI), >stratified-charge gasoline engines) uses a version of hot-film >(HFM5) that's sensitive to the flow direction. That's necessary with >the DI system because they run it with WOT at low loads, using >controlled, external EGR to reduce the engine's output - by varying >its displacement if you like. That sounds incredible complecated... So presumuable there is no direct throttle cable... just a fly by wire pedal and ecu does the rest??? Ade - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Mar 100 19:32:00 +0800 (WST) From: Bernd Felsche Subject: Stratified Charge DI with EGR (was: AFM measurement/backpressure) Ade + Lamb Chop writes: >At 09:34 11/03/00 +0800, Bernd Felsche wrote: >>>>None that I can recall. Lucas/Bosch systems use them, and >>>>patent leasees of them. >>>>Numerically probably MAP is most common, then hot wire, and then >>>>combos of MAP/hot wire. >>>So what is the best way?? The rover system uses MAP and inlet air >>>temperature... >>Even hot-wire is passé. :-) >How does hot wire work?? Is is a little heater that uses X power then you >measure the temperature... more airflow the more heat is taken from the >heater?? Surely you would also need air temperature, or am I completly off... Done with either a reference wire or by a separate temp sensor. >>The latest Bosch MED Motronic (for direct-injection (DI), >>stratified-charge gasoline engines) uses a version of hot-film >>(HFM5) that's sensitive to the flow direction. That's necessary with >>the DI system because they run it with WOT at low loads, using >>controlled, external EGR to reduce the engine's output - by varying >>its displacement if you like. >That sounds incredible complecated... So presumuable there is no direct >throttle cable... just a fly by wire pedal and ecu does the rest??? Throttle-by-wire. The driver sets the amount of torque required by the position of the pedal. The ECU adjusts throttle, EGR (up to 70%), injection and ignition accordingly. The complication has its rewards; 15% less fuel consumption, partly due to increased "volumetric efficiency" because the throttle is often wide open... better find an updated abbreviation to replace WOT! The engine uses quantity-regulation at low load; the torque developed depends on the amount of fuel injected. The amount of air sucked in and ignition timing have little effect on torque. - -- Real Name: Bernd Felsche Email: nospam.bernie@xxx.au http://www.perth.dialix.com.au/~bernie - Private HP - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:12:43 From: "Mike (Perth, Western Australia)" Subject: Re: Stratified Charge DI with EGR (was: AFM measurement/backpressure) At 07:32 PM 11/3/2000 +0800, Bernd Felsche wrote: >>That sounds incredible complecated... So presumuable there is no direct >>throttle cable... just a fly by wire pedal and ecu does the rest??? > >Throttle-by-wire. The driver sets the amount of torque required by >the position of the pedal. The ECU adjusts throttle, EGR (up to >70%), injection and ignition accordingly. >The complication has its rewards; 15% less fuel consumption, partly >due to increased "volumetric efficiency" because the throttle is >often wide open... better find an updated abbreviation to replace >WOT! Aye - I'm a bit perplexed here, are we talking diesel if not but, talking petrol then I would have expected wide open throttle to consume more petrol due to maintaining AFR ? On the occasions I have wide open throttle on my vehicle I'll either chew up huge amounts of fuel and/or leave rubber, but then my EGR is minimal... In the event the engine is undersized/powered in comparison with an AFM or MAP only setup then I suppose there is value - but are you saying with this fly by wire that gradual pedal pressing under load by human can result in wide open throttle plate by fly-by-wire. 70% EGR does sound awfully high though, any observations that this is used on turbo engines. And on the n/a ones is there much attention to EGR cooling ? By the way whats does conventional "WOT" stand for ? The stability and PID equations must be interesting ;-) >The engine uses quantity-regulation at low load; the torque >developed depends on the amount of fuel injected. The amount of air >sucked in and ignition timing have little effect on torque. This sounds bizarre, especially as I would have expected AFR to be kept as close to stoich (or slightly) lean unless its a diesel... Can you please clarify particularly this last paragraph of yours ? Rgds Mike Massen Ancient Sufi saying: "Should your God save you from adversity, choose another God" Pictures of site installation at Mendulong near Sipitang, Sabah (Malaysia) for container based RAPS... http://www.wantree.com.au/~erazmus Vehicle modifications on GMH Turbo, twin tyres, possible 175Kw at wheels Preliminary pictures at http://www.wantree.com.au/~erazmus/Twin_tyre_vehicle/ My editorial on twin-tyre opinion and good reference about tyres:- http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/2195/ttyreopinion.html - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:17:27 From: "Mike (Perth, Western Australia)" Subject: Re: Compact Flash - how to drive it? At 10:29 AM 11/3/2000 +0800, Bernd Felsche wrote: >I was looking for data on how to drive the commodity compact-flash >devices actually. I already have a data sheet on how to flash one >of the Atmel chips directly, but then I need to either download to >a "real computer" for detailed analysis, or develop a "carrier" to >plug into the desktop. (In theory, I could drive it off a parallel >port, but that's not as "neat", nor do many Palmtops have those ports.) Can't say that I know much about the 'compact flash' is it a flash in a carrier - convenient for consumer use ? Any URLS ? Suitable for diy efi - plug in data logging ? >>Suggest you join the atmel users group, I've been on it for a while and >>has all sorts of nice gear, send the message 'join' in subject and >>body to > >Thanks for the pointer. I'm already on half a dozen mailing lists >delivering over 200 messages a day. Might sign up for a week to see >if I can keep up with traffic. Yeah me too, the traffic on atmel's is usually less then pic or philips but there are a few on atmels interested in data logging too - I'll also be interested in this one... :) Rgds ~`:o) Mike Massen Trading as "Network Power Systems" and "Network Computers" Perth, Western Australia Ph +61 8 9444 8961 Fx +618 9264 8229 (fax -> email) Products/Personal/Client web area at http://www.wantree.com.au/~erazmus (Current pics - trip to Malaysia to install equipment in jungle power site) Some say there is no magic but, all things begin with thought then it becomes academic, then some poor slob works out a practical way to implement all that theory, this is called Engineering - for most people another form of magic. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V5 #98 **************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. 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