DIY_EFI Digest Saturday, March 11 2000 Volume 05 : Number 099 In this issue: Re: Stratified Charge DI with EGR Re: Stratified Charge DI with EGR Re: AFM measurement/backpressure Re: Electronic Transmission Control Re: server Re: Circuit simulation Re: Electronic Transmission Control Re: AFM measurement/backpressure (was Turbo speed sensor) Re: Circuit simulation Looking for 4-layer board. Re: Electronic Transmission Control compact flash Re: Stratified Charge DI with EGR (was: AFM measurement/backpressure) Re: Electronic Transmission Control Re: Stratified Charge DI with EGR (was: AFM measurement/backpressure) Re: Electronic Transmission Control Re: Stratified Charge DI with EGR Re: AFM measurement/backpressure Re: compact flash See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 11 Mar 100 23:59:56 +0800 (WST) From: Bernd Felsche Subject: Re: Stratified Charge DI with EGR Mike writes: >At 07:32 PM 11/3/2000 +0800, Bernd Felsche wrote: >>Throttle-by-wire. The driver sets the amount of torque required by >>the position of the pedal. The ECU adjusts throttle, EGR (up to >>70%), injection and ignition accordingly. >>The complication has its rewards; 15% less fuel consumption, partly >>due to increased "volumetric efficiency" because the throttle is >>often wide open... better find an updated abbreviation to replace >>WOT! >Aye - I'm a bit perplexed here, are we talking diesel if not but, talking >petrol then I would have expected wide open throttle to consume more >petrol due to maintaining AFR ? It's petrol. >On the occasions I have wide open throttle on my vehicle I'll either >chew up huge amounts of fuel and/or leave rubber, but then my EGR is >minimal... Nor do you have stratified charge, or direct petrol injection one would assume. >In the event the engine is undersized/powered in comparison with an AFM >or MAP only setup then I suppose there is value - but are you saying with >this fly by wire that gradual pedal pressing under load by human can result >in wide open throttle plate by fly-by-wire. Up to a certain load, the engine operates in stratified-charge, lean burn, with the throttle wide open. Yes; a slight depression - i.e. low torque demand - results in WOT and a lean-burn cycle. Note that the semantics of the pedal have changed; the driver determines the torque output, not the throttle opening. So if you keep pressing further, the engine will switch to homogenous operation and start throttling airflow - though you'd probably be hard-pressed to pick the transition. >70% EGR does sound awfully high though, any observations that this is >used on turbo engines. And on the n/a ones is there much attention to >EGR cooling ? Sorry, I mis-read the section (it's quite a lot crammed into a few pages) - it's a 70% reduction in NOx via EGR - No actual rate of EGR is given other than being high. >By the way whats does conventional "WOT" stand for ? Wide-Open-Throttle; implying maximum torque demand. >The stability and PID equations must be interesting ;-) There are a few recent SAE papers; I don't have the funds to undertake all the research in that direction. Interesting though it may be. The first car to employ Bosch MED7 is the VW Lupo FSI. >>The engine uses quantity-regulation at low load; the torque >>developed depends on the amount of fuel injected. The amount of air >>sucked in and ignition timing have little effect on torque. >This sounds bizarre, especially as I would have expected AFR to be kept >as close to stoich (or slightly) lean unless its a diesel... Very much leaner than stoich - Bosch describes mixtures as lean as 2.5; any leaner than 1.5 and stratified charge operation leads to soot formation; any leaner than 1.3 in homogenous mixture formation and ignition can fail, leading to a prohibited band of AFR which the engine management system must skip on the load transitions. [In fact, the nature of the NOx storage cat (which stores the NOx as nitrates) requires that the engine periodically switch from lean-burn (LB) to homogenous so that sufficient CO is generated to allow the reduction to N2 and CO2 to take place. This switching is transparent to the driver as the ECU knows how to switch from LB and back without any change in engine torque.] Direct injection allows injecting the fuel immediately before the spark (during compression) so that an ignitable mixture surrounds the plug. The lower the load, the less the fuel injected, always finishing just before the spark - I guess to ensure a dense mixture cloud to light. >Can you please clarify particularly this last paragraph of yours ? Hmmm. I'd like to order a few of the tomes of SAE papers on DI and EGR over the past few years first. Unfortunately, it adds up to many hundreds of US dollars, which is probably better invested in me exploding microcontroller chips as a hobby. Meanwhile; I'd recommend that you try to get the Bosch reference I wrote about earlier. It doesn't go down to component-specification, but deals with the process of SI engine management well. They're not going to give the game away by telling you everything; it's Bosch and it's their game that they want to keep playing. The english-language edition has a few more pages, so there might be some more details about MED in there. Should be able to order the book through a good bookshop. - -- Real Name: Bernd Felsche Email: nospam.bernie@xxx.au http://www.perth.dialix.com.au/~bernie - Private HP - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 00:29:14 From: "Mike (Perth, Western Australia)" Subject: Re: Stratified Charge DI with EGR At 11:59 PM 11/3/2000 +0800, Bernd Felsche wrote: >Nor do you have stratified charge, or direct petrol injection one >would assume. mmm Are you implying this flybywire system is only direct injection, I seem to recall volvo did something in that area early 80s but with port injection - though they did claim high NOx reductions but I also seem to recall they had a RF type ignition system duration which lasted throughout the whole downstroke and part of upstroke... >>In the event the engine is undersized/powered in comparison with an AFM >>or MAP only setup then I suppose there is value - but are you saying with >>this fly by wire that gradual pedal pressing under load by human can result >>in wide open throttle plate by fly-by-wire. > >Up to a certain load, the engine operates in stratified-charge, lean >burn, with the throttle wide open. Yes; a slight depression - i.e. >low torque demand - results in WOT and a lean-burn cycle. During this time whats the estimated EGR rate - approximate ? >Note that the semantics of the pedal have changed; the driver >determines the torque output, not the throttle opening. So if you >keep pressing further, the engine will switch to homogenous >operation and start throttling airflow - though you'd probably be >hard-pressed to pick the transition. mmm Understood. >>70% EGR does sound awfully high though, any observations that this is >>used on turbo engines. And on the n/a ones is there much attention to >>EGR cooling ? > >Sorry, I mis-read the section (it's quite a lot crammed into a few >pages) - it's a 70% reduction in NOx via EGR - No actual rate of EGR >is given other than being high. > >>By the way whats does conventional "WOT" stand for ? > >Wide-Open-Throttle; implying maximum torque demand. > >>The stability and PID equations must be interesting ;-) > >There are a few recent SAE papers; I don't have the funds to >undertake all the research in that direction. Interesting though it >may be. The first car to employ Bosch MED7 is the VW Lupo FSI. do you know when this came out ? Isn't it Bosch that also did some work in early 80's on injection cycling with italian taxi cabs ? ie. Defer one injection from time to time but keep valve ops the same on a 4stroke - the compressed air and heat from previous cycles was enough on certain load ranges so the effect was not noticeable, saved 10-15% depending on the driver - narrow range of operation, no cat IIRC. >>This sounds bizarre, especially as I would have expected AFR to be kept >>as close to stoich (or slightly) lean unless its a diesel... > >Very much leaner than stoich - Bosch describes mixtures as lean as >2.5; any leaner than 1.5 and stratified charge operation leads to >soot formation; any leaner than 1.3 in homogenous mixture formation >and ignition can fail, leading to a prohibited band of AFR which the >engine management system must skip on the load transitions. Sorry not with you on the numbers/terminology, in respect of AFR of 14.7 to 1 stoich whats the 2.5, 1.5, 1.3 refer to in relation to AFR ? >[In fact, the nature of the NOx storage cat (which stores the NOx as >nitrates) requires that the engine periodically switch from >lean-burn (LB) to homogenous so that sufficient CO is generated to >allow the reduction to N2 and CO2 to take place. This switching is >transparent to the driver as the ECU knows how to switch from LB and >back without any change in engine torque.] Did they use a deeply porous cat with rather more Pd or back to the Rhodium/Platinum mix ? >Direct injection allows injecting the fuel immediately before the >spark (during compression) so that an ignitable mixture surrounds >the plug. The lower the load, the less the fuel injected, always >finishing just before the spark - I guess to ensure a dense mixture >cloud to light. I see, use the cloud around the plug burn to compress/charge the lean air reducing HC's etc... >>Can you please clarify particularly this last paragraph of yours ? > >Hmmm. I'd like to order a few of the tomes of SAE papers on DI and >EGR over the past few years first. Unfortunately, it adds up to many >hundreds of US dollars, which is probably better invested in me >exploding microcontroller chips as a hobby. mmm me too :) Rgds Mike Massen Ancient Sufi saying: "Should your God save you from adversity, choose another God" Pictures of site installation at Mendulong near Sipitang, Sabah (Malaysia) for container based RAPS... http://www.wantree.com.au/~erazmus Vehicle modifications on GMH Turbo, twin tyres, possible 175Kw at wheels Preliminary pictures at http://www.wantree.com.au/~erazmus/Twin_tyre_vehicle/ My editorial on twin-tyre opinion and good reference about tyres:- http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/2195/ttyreopinion.html - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 09:12:55 -0700 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: AFM measurement/backpressure >At 09:34 11/03/00 +0800, Bernd Felsche wrote: >>>>None that I can recall. Lucas/Bosch systems use them, and patent >leasees of >>>>them. >>>>Numerically probably MAP is most common, then hot wire, and then combos of >>>>MAP/hot wire. >> >>>So what is the best way?? The rover system uses MAP and inlet air >>>temperature... >> >>Even hot-wire is passé. :-) > >How does hot wire work?? Is is a little heater that uses X power then you >measure the temperature... more airflow the more heat is taken from the >heater?? Surely you would also need air temperature, or am I completly off... The resistance of the wire varies with its temperature, so one approach would be to measure the voltage required to hold the wire at a constant current. The more air flow you have at a given IAT, the cooler the wire gets. Greg - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 11:36:13 -0500 From: "Swayze" Subject: Re: Electronic Transmission Control drop in on www.442.com the transmission FAQ there is pretty good. 4L80E looks good stock, 200R4 looks good beefed. 300HP and highway gears with 3.31 rear gear (should be able to get out of its own way) (2800-3200 # curb weight). what parameters do the electronic(PCM?TCM?) controllers look at and adjust? byE Mike Swayze mswayze@xxx.com kswayze@xxx.net - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Sharpe" To: Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2000 12:42 AM Subject: Re: Electronic Transmission Control > > > Doug Dayson wrote: > > > Hi All... > > > > Note that the mid 1988 and later 700R4...4L60...and 4L60E's are essentially > > identical with the exception of the E's electronic controls... .... ratio's...3.06...1.62...1.00...0.70 > > > > 2004R ratio's...2.75...1.57...1.00...0.67 > > > > 4L80E ratio's...2.48...1.48...1.00...0.75 > > > > TH-400 ratio's...2.48...1.48...1.00 > > > > TH-350 ratio's...2.52...1.52...1.00 > .... > > The 4L80E is perhaps the best bet from a racer's or towing standpoint as it's > > got the closest ratio spread and it's torque capacity is the highest...but > > it's physically longer and slightly larger in diameter than it's cousin the > > TH-400...and it weighs 100 lbs more than the others excepting the TH-400...and > > it's parasitic drain is about 50HP more than the others... > > > > Also of note concerning the 4L80E's...I've heard that their sprags are weak > > compared to a TH-400's...fortunately the TH-400 sprags will retrofit... > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 12:09:24 -0500 From: "Swayze" Subject: Re: server mow much is there(total)? byE Mike Swayze mswayze@xxx.com kswayze@xxx.net - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shannen Durphey" To: Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2000 12:07 AM Subject: Re: server > The archives are still at the old sites. There is a gap for the > period after the move. Hopefully, someone is collecting the files for > the new site. > Shannen > > Geoff, Kate & Theo Campbell wrote: > > > > Thanx. Just what I needed to hear. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 12:05:13 -0500 From: "Swayze" Subject: Re: Circuit simulation sounds like you need about three squelch controls and a couple of faders. I wouldn't go digital unless you need a time delay. byE Mike Swayze mswayze@xxx.com kswayze@xxx.net - ----- Original Message ----- From: "MysticZ" To: Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2000 3:20 AM Subject: Circuit simulation > Does anyone know of any decent circuit simulation software? I'd prefer > something I don't have to spend any cash on since I'll only use it > occasionally. I'm working on a little project to see what I can figure > out about strange logic circuits before I dive into the EFI setup for > the Ninja. This is just a little box that has 3 audio inputs: radar > detector, CB, and tape/radio (a Rio in my case), and one output for > headphones (or more specifically helmet speakers since this is for a > motorcycle). The radar detector input has the highest priority, the Rio > input the lowest. If while riding along listening to the Rio, the radar > detector goes off, the input from the Rio is disabled and the radar > detector takes over. Get the idea? So far I've come up with a circuit > using AND gates and inverters but the truth tables keep coming up with a > couple of errors and I need a way to simulate it before I hunt down the > components. Since I'm at least a little sane still I plan on using > optoisolators to keep strange things from getting to the goodies plugged > into the inputs and frying them. > > Once I figure out how to make this work I'll be one step closer to the > EFI setup. Anyone have an idea? > -- > Steve > 97 Chevy Camaro Z28, Mystic teal, A4, not stock > 90 Kawasaki EX500A4, black, M6, not even CLOSE to stock! > lt1_z28@xxx.net/~lt1_z28 > Aluminum, steel, carbon fiber, titanium, and two cast iron balls. > McMillan Motorsports- http://www.mmsbikes.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 09:07:21 -0800 From: Doug Dayson Subject: Re: Electronic Transmission Control Howdy Ya'll... Tom Sharpe wrote: > Any one claim that a 200R4 can handle 500+ FT LBS. HOW MUCH CAN IT HANDLE??? 2004R's can be built (with aftermarket parts etc) to similar strength's as the 700's are (with aftermarket parts etc)...and most last "ok" up to about 500 ft/lbs or so with traction...there are other issues however... Remember that TH-350's can be built stronger than either OD trans...Glides...400's...and 4L80E's stronger yet... If it's a combo with a "streetable converter" and a Super Ram'd BB for example that makes that kind of torque off idle and you're runnin' slicks you're gonna shock the trans at launch a lot harder than say a turbo six which makes it's power higher up the rpm scale... > I'm running a T350 and 10" converter and 2.75 axle because 700R4's annual costs > are too high. What's the rest of your package Tom...it seems like a miss match with a 10" converter mated to a TH-350 and a 2.73 axle...though probably not a problem if you've got a "Mountain Motor" in there...(:>) As a note...for at least the TH-400's (maybe the TH-350's also) you can get custom gear sets...somebody modify's the 2004R and 700R4 first and second gears for use in TH-400's etc...you can (or could at least) get the following for the TH-400...I have no idea about their reliability... a) 3.06...1.57...1.00 b) 2.74...1.57...1.00 Selection "a" would make more sense to me with a 2.73 rear gear and a three speed... > from th '60s (and still valid), you need ~ 12.5/1 in first w/ small slicks or drag > radials. For a race car sure...for a fast street car maybe a overall ratio of 9.5/1 to 10.5/1 in first to avoid blowing away the street tires too badly... See you... Doug > from th '60s (and still valid), you need ~ 12.5/1 in first w/ small slicks or drag > radials. > > TomS > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 01:32:35 From: "Mike (Perth, Western Australia)" Subject: Re: AFM measurement/backpressure (was Turbo speed sensor) Didn't se your email till now, :( At 12:43 PM 8/03/2000 -0500, "nacelp" wrote: >> Thats very similar to what I had in mind, as its quicker and easier then >> an ECU update (at the time). > >Doesn't Dick Smith make a timing computer of some sort?. Couldn't see it and I'd rather make my own adjustment, >As I recall they had a dissy point eliminator that included a programmable >devise, that or MSD (if they sell in Oz) has a multistep retard that is >threee stages, that you can add together for like a total of 5 steps. Use a >MAP sensor/comparator to trigger it. Sounds interesting, can't see it in the cat at moment, my setup has a hitachi crank sensor with two pulse output, not knowing about the DS product, I can't see how it would function without intercepting the pulses.. >What ya gonna do for the extra fuel?. Have the faciltiy to run an extra injector off the AFM amp, when it reaches a trigger point a PWM goes to extra injector. >> Run a diaphragm off the boost to a link which rotated the dizzy, the >linkage >> is real simple and a lever arm of varying lengths would give varying >> amounts - my ECU apparantly doesn't retard timing at all. It was only >> meant for 7psi boost (3L, six T3 standard 60trim) so the simple mechanical >> setup would be ideal - though it would look strange on that model ~`:! >> >> Trouble is I really don't know how much retard I need for what boost :( > >Easy start with too much and tune from there. > >> Any idea (as a starting point) how much retard I should have from say >> 7psi to 10psi on a 3L six ? > >I'd start at 10 and see where ya are. What about fuel?. OK, that sounds good, I'm using 'premium unleaded' thats about 96 octane or thereabouts - regular unleanded is about 92 - there's a new fuel from sheel coming out soon called optimax - I hear its 98 octane and supplies more bang per ml - Shell's tests indicate improved economy by up to 15% but I have yet to see it in Perth or findout how much it costs. Tah, Rgds Mike Massen Ancient Sufi saying: "Should your God save you from adversity, choose another God" Pictures of site installation at Mendulong near Sipitang, Sabah (Malaysia) for container based RAPS... http://www.wantree.com.au/~erazmus Vehicle modifications on GMH Turbo, twin tyres, possible 175Kw at wheels Preliminary pictures at http://www.wantree.com.au/~erazmus/Twin_tyre_vehicle/ My editorial on twin-tyre opinion and good reference about tyres:- http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/2195/ttyreopinion.html - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 13:33:57 -0600 From: MysticZ Subject: Re: Circuit simulation Swayze wrote: > > sounds like you need about three squelch controls and a couple of > faders. I wouldn't go digital unless you need a time delay. Haven't a clue how I would implement that though. I haven't gotten to take any of my EE classes yet so what I know I've taught myself or picked up from other people along the way. Anyone have any schematics for a squelch circuit laying around? Maybe if I can see it I'll be able to figure out how to work it into what I need. Also, I just found National Semiconductor's site. This is a good thing :) Especially samples :) In particular the LM1949 injector driver :) - -- Steve 97 Chevy Camaro Z28, Mystic teal, A4, not stock 90 Kawasaki EX500A4, black, M6, not even CLOSE to stock! lt1_z28@xxx.net/~lt1_z28 Aluminum, steel, carbon fiber, titanium, and two cast iron balls. McMillan Motorsports- http://www.mmsbikes.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 02:35:35 +0530 (IST) From: VAIDYA AJAY ASHOK Subject: Looking for 4-layer board. Hello All, I am a novice to EFI.I am a post-graduate student wroking on EFI at Indian Institute of Technology,Bombay [INDIA].Does any body had any extra 4-layer board ? I need it urgently.Please let me know. Millions thankx in advance. Your's Ajay Vaidya. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I think ["HENCE"],I can "DO" it !!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ * LOCAL ADDRESS * * GLOBAL ADDRESS * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ VAIDYA AJAY ASHOK c/o Ashok B. Vaidya M.TECH. [DESIGN] (MECHANICAL ENGG.) PLOT NO.13-B, 273/1, HOSTEL NO : H-1 DR. ANTROLIKAR NAGER-1, ROOM NO : 104 BEHIND KINARA HOTEL, PHONE NO : +91-022-5781017 SOLAPUR :413003. Indian Institute of Technology,Bombay Phone:+91-0217-606028 POWAI,Mumbai-400076. MAHARASHSTRA. [ INDIA ] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ *E-MAIL* aavaidya@xxx.in ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 16:15:21 -0500 From: "Swayze" Subject: Re: Electronic Transmission Control didn't Hone at one time make a bolt-on OD unit? byE Mike Swayze mswayze@xxx.com kswayze@xxx.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 12:06:12 -0600 From: "alexpeper" Subject: compact flash This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BF8B52.31AC0740 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This would be of interesting thread for diy-fi since seems to be = settting standard in memory in small devices, digital cameras, mp3 players etc. thus reducing cost. diy-fi is a memory intensive operation with multi megabyte capacity his could provide less interpolation, more tables,=20 data acquistion and improved adaption. I am still somewhat confused on reliability of writes. and write times compared to EEPROM. alex Date: Fri, 10 Mar 100 16:36:51 +0800 (WST) From: Bernd Felsche Subject: Compact Flash - how to drive it? Time for another dumb question ...=20 How hard is it to drive a compact-flash? I'm considering it as an option for data-logging using the SPI from an Atmel 8535... Any definitive URL's with spec's and supplies for connectors, etc. would be welcome. - - --=20 Real Name: Bernd Felsche Email: nospam.bernie@xxx.au http://www.perth.dialix.com.au/~bernie - Private HP - ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BF8B52.31AC0740 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This would be of interesting thread for = diy-fi=20 since seems to be settting standard
in memory in small devices, digital = cameras, mp3=20 players etc. thus
reducing cost.  diy-fi is a memory = intensive=20 operation with  multi
megabyte capacity=20 his could provide less interpolation, more tables,
data acquistion and improved = adaption.  I am=20 still somewhat
confused on reliability of writes. and = write times=20 compared to EEPROM.
alex
 
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 100 16:36:51 +0800 = (WST)
From:=20 Bernd Felsche <= >
Subject:=20 Compact Flash - how to drive it?

Time for another dumb question = ...=20

How hard is it to drive a compact-flash? I'm considering it as=20 an
option for data-logging using the SPI from an Atmel = 8535...

Any=20 definitive URL's with spec's and supplies for connectors, etc.
would = be=20 welcome.

- --
Real Name: Bernd Felsche
    = Email:=20
    =20 http://www.perth.dialix.c= om.au/~bernie=20 - - Private HP
- ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BF8B52.31AC0740-- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 15:55:30 PST From: "mike mager" Subject: Re: Stratified Charge DI with EGR (was: AFM measurement/backpressure) Bernd Felsche said, in part: (complete quotation below) >Throttle-by-wire. The driver sets the amount of torque required by >the position of the pedal. The ECU adjusts throttle, EGR (up to >70%), injection and ignition accordingly. > >The complication has its rewards; 15% less fuel consumption, partly >due to increased "volumetric efficiency" because the throttle is >often wide open... better find an updated abbreviation to replace >WOT! > >The engine uses quantity-regulation at low load; the torque >developed depends on the amount of fuel injected. The amount of air >sucked in and ignition timing have little effect on torque. Hey! Where's the air-fuel ratio - way lean? Thanks, Mike (I see it in Diesels, but it's new to me in SI engines) >From: Bernd Felsche >Reply-To: diy_efi@xxx.org >To: diy_efi@xxx.org >Subject: Stratified Charge DI with EGR (was: AFM measurement/backpressure) >Date: Sat, 11 Mar 100 19:32:00 +0800 (WST) > >Ade + Lamb Chop writes: > > >At 09:34 11/03/00 +0800, Bernd Felsche wrote: > >>>>None that I can recall. Lucas/Bosch systems use them, and > >>>>patent leasees of them. > >>>>Numerically probably MAP is most common, then hot wire, and then > >>>>combos of MAP/hot wire. > > >>>So what is the best way?? The rover system uses MAP and inlet air > >>>temperature... > > >>Even hot-wire is passé. :-) > > >How does hot wire work?? Is is a little heater that uses X power then you > >measure the temperature... more airflow the more heat is taken from the > >heater?? Surely you would also need air temperature, or am I completly >off... > >Done with either a reference wire or by a separate temp sensor. > > >>The latest Bosch MED Motronic (for direct-injection (DI), > >>stratified-charge gasoline engines) uses a version of hot-film > >>(HFM5) that's sensitive to the flow direction. That's necessary with > >>the DI system because they run it with WOT at low loads, using > >>controlled, external EGR to reduce the engine's output - by varying > >>its displacement if you like. > > >That sounds incredible complecated... So presumuable there is no direct > >throttle cable... just a fly by wire pedal and ecu does the rest??? > >Throttle-by-wire. The driver sets the amount of torque required by >the position of the pedal. The ECU adjusts throttle, EGR (up to >70%), injection and ignition accordingly. > >The complication has its rewards; 15% less fuel consumption, partly >due to increased "volumetric efficiency" because the throttle is >often wide open... better find an updated abbreviation to replace >WOT! > >The engine uses quantity-regulation at low load; the torque >developed depends on the amount of fuel injected. The amount of air >sucked in and ignition timing have little effect on torque. > >-- >Real Name: Bernd Felsche > Email: nospam.bernie@xxx.au > http://www.perth.dialix.com.au/~bernie - Private HP ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 17:00:03 -0700 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Electronic Transmission Control >didn't Hone at one time make a bolt-on OD unit? >byE >Mike >Swayze >mswayze@xxx.com >kswayze@xxx.net I think it went onto the nose of the differential . Greg > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) >in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 17:10:49 -0700 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Stratified Charge DI with EGR (was: AFM measurement/backpressure) > >>The complication has its rewards; 15% less fuel consumption, partly >>due to increased "volumetric efficiency" because the throttle is >>often wide open... better find an updated abbreviation to replace >>WOT! >> It would be far more accurate to call this "decreased pumping losses" than "increased volumetric efficiency". Greg - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 18:00:53 -0800 From: Doug Dayson Subject: Re: Electronic Transmission Control Interesting...there was a OD thingie on the Baldwin/Motion Corvette's of the 70's...anyone have a clue as to what it ws? Thanks..Doug Greg Hermann wrote: > > >didn't Hone at one time make a bolt-on OD unit? > >byE > >Mike > >Swayze > >mswayze@xxx.com > >kswayze@xxx.net > > I think it went onto the nose of the differential . > > Greg > > > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > >in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Mar 100 10:29:08 +0800 (WST) From: Bernd Felsche Subject: Re: Stratified Charge DI with EGR Greg Hermann writes: >>>The complication has its rewards; 15% less fuel consumption, partly >>>due to increased "volumetric efficiency" because the throttle is >>>often wide open... better find an updated abbreviation to replace >>>WOT! >>> >It would be far more accurate to call this "decreased pumping losses" than >"increased volumetric efficiency". Certainly less mis-leading, I agree. :-) I was going to add the comment about the pumping losses - that's why I placed "volumetric efficiency" in quotes - but then forgot. - -- Real Name: Bernd Felsche Email: nospam.bernie@xxx.au http://www.perth.dialix.com.au/~bernie - Private HP - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Mar 100 10:34:11 +0800 (WST) From: Bernd Felsche Subject: Re: AFM measurement/backpressure Greg Hermann writes: >>At 09:34 11/03/00 +0800, Bernd Felsche wrote: >>>>>None that I can recall. Lucas/Bosch systems use them, and >>>>>patent leasees of them. >>>>>Numerically probably MAP is most common, then hot wire, and >>>>>then combos of MAP/hot wire. >>>>So what is the best way?? The rover system uses MAP and inlet >>>>air temperature... >>>Even hot-wire is passé. :-) >>How does hot wire work?? Is is a little heater that uses X power then you >>measure the temperature... more airflow the more heat is taken from the >>heater?? Surely you would also need air temperature, or am I completly off... >The resistance of the wire varies with its temperature, so one approach >would be to measure the voltage required to hold the wire at a constant >current. The more air flow you have at a given IAT, the cooler the wire >gets. The current flow is directly related to the *mass* of the air flowing in. That is generally sufficient to determine the amount of fuel to inject. If you however desire air temperature - e.g. to adjust spark timing or to alter the injection to allow for vapourization in cold air, then you must sense this separately. - -- Real Name: Bernd Felsche Email: nospam.bernie@xxx.au http://www.perth.dialix.com.au/~bernie - Private HP - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Mar 100 11:05:06 +0800 (WST) From: Bernd Felsche Subject: Re: compact flash alexpeper writes: >From: Bernd Felsche >>How hard is it to drive a compact-flash? I'm considering it as an >>option for data-logging using the SPI from an Atmel 8535... >>Any definitive URL's with spec's and supplies for connectors, etc. >>would be welcome. >This would be of interesting thread for diy-fi since seems to be >settting standard in memory in small devices, digital cameras, mp3 >players etc. thus reducing cost. diy-fi is a memory intensive >operation with multi megabyte capacity his could provide less >interpolation, more tables, data acquistion and improved adaption. I wouldn't hold my breath on being able to get to the data in a truly random way really fast... Data access is often by "page" and through a serial interface. However, it's perfectly adequate for data logging at sustained speeds of around 250,000 bits/second if those data are stored "serially". >I am still somewhat confused on reliability of writes. and write >times compared to EEPROM. The Atmel devices (chips) are equipped with two buffers, you fill one while the other is flashed to permanent store. Flash times are in the order of 7 to 15 milliseconds for a 528-byte "page". (Hence the bandwidth limitation.) The Atmel chip (AT45DB161) I looked at could be clocked at 13MHz, giving burst data transfers at around 1.5 megabytes per second. Reading from flash to buffer happens at as 250 to 350 microseconds allowing serial reads at full clock speed. Random access is another game altogether - the 2 on-chip buffers of 528 bytes each need to be filled if the data required is at an address not already buffered. You probably don't want to "spin" waiting for the data! It may be used however, to assist in long-term adaption and keeping a history of operating conditions. Writes are pretty good in reliability; the chips themselves have internal readback and compare with buffer - unless they are really cut-down (per-)versions. Only when you exceed the "life" rating of the devices, do persistent storage problems arise. However; I'd prefer (due to cost) to work at the commercially pre-packaged CF level; I get zillions of hits on web searches but the interface details are sketchy - haven't been able to find a CF-socket either. - -- Real Name: Bernd Felsche Email: nospam.bernie@xxx.au http://www.perth.dialix.com.au/~bernie - Private HP - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V5 #99 **************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace "diy_efi-digest" in the command above with "diy_efi".