DIY_EFI Digest Sunday, March 19 2000 Volume 05 : Number 112 In this issue: RE: Subject: Re: water into efi system before injectors. Re: Microcontrollers Re: Subject: Re: water into efi system before injectors. Re: Subject: Re: water into efi system before injectors. Re: Subject: Re: water into efi system before injectors. A water injection pump!!! Re: Circuit simulation Re: Microcontrollers Re: A water injection pump!!! Re: Subject: Re: water into efi system before injectors. Re: Subject: Re: water into efi system before injectors. Re: Circuit simulation Re: Circuit simulation Re: H2O pump Re: Circuit simulation Re: H2O pump nozzle selection was:Re: A water injection pump!!! Re: Corvair EFI Re: nozzle selection was:Re: A water injection pump!!! Re: Corvair EFI Water injection Re: DIY_EFI Digest V5 #109 Chip burning 101? (Or, newby questions II) Re: Chip burning 101? (Or, newby questions II) Re: DIY_EFI Digest V5 #107 Re: Chip burning 101? (Or, newby questions II) See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the DIY_EFI or DIY_EFI-Digest mailing lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 15:10:08 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F6rgen_Karlsson?= Subject: RE: Subject: Re: water into efi system before injectors. > mmm - Any suggestions on what alcohol compatible pumps cost ? > I have only seen one place that has a resonable priced pump, he uses it in methanol injection systems. Check http://www.servtech.com/~racerx/kits/ The pump cost $200(US). The kits could probably be used for water injection without modification. I am going to run a water-methanol mix as additional fuel/internal coolant at high boost. I think that aquamist recommend not to use more then 50% methanol in their systems of reliability reasons. Jörgen Karlsson Gothenburg, Sweden - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Mar 100 22:51:30 +0800 (WST) From: Bernd Felsche Subject: Re: Microcontrollers MysticZ writes: >Does anyone know of a decent, easy to deal with microcontroller that >will run C? I'm new at all this itty bitty computer stuff, and I could >just use a basic stamp, but I've heard that it isn't as fast as "some C >based controller" (exact phrase). Anyone have a clue what that could be? I think the implication was that the BASIC on the PIC was slow. My understanding is that the BASIC is resident in the BASIC PIC. C compilers are obtainable for just about any microcontroller (uC); many available as cross-compulers based on gcc for development under Unix/Linux/AmigaOS and others. The C compiler generates machine code for the target environment. C compilers for the PIC family are available. There are also BASIC compilers which generate machine to run faster than when interpreted on the PIC. - -- Real Name: Bernd Felsche Email: nospam.bernie@xxx.au http://www.perth.dialix.com.au/~bernie - Private HP - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 09:18:50 -0500 From: "Swayze" Subject: Re: Subject: Re: water into efi system before injectors. I have a manual on the dual fuel 90-91 lumina, seems it had some sort of sensor on the fuel line to determine the percentage of alchohol in the fuel. any idea how it would work? byE Mike Swayze mswayze@xxx.com kswayze@xxx.net - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike (Perth, Western Australia)" To: Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 7:27 PM Subject: Re: Subject: Re: water into efi system before injectors. > At 02:02 AM 19/3/2000 -0500, you wrote: > >Hi, Mike. Me brain cells finally started working. Over here, > >Chevrolet sold a "dual fuel" pfi car, which could run on Gas, or Alky, > >or both. Is an alchohol compatible pump likely to work for you? > ........... - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 10:10:19 -0500 From: "C. Brooks" Subject: Re: Subject: Re: water into efi system before injectors. First guess would be capacitance. I read a paper on automated measurements a while back and it gave an over view of various methods of measuring liquids in caustic environments. I know it "ain't much" but maybe it'll give you some direction? Charles Brooks Mid-Atlantic Speed Shop http://www.massmotorsports.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: Swayze To: Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 9:18 AM Subject: Re: Subject: Re: water into efi system before injectors. > I have a manual on the dual fuel 90-91 lumina, seems it had some sort of sensor on the fuel line to determine the percentage of alchohol in the fuel. any idea how it would work? > byE > Mike > Swayze > mswayze@xxx.com > kswayze@xxx.net > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mike (Perth, Western Australia)" > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 7:27 PM > Subject: Re: Subject: Re: water into efi system before injectors. > > > > At 02:02 AM 19/3/2000 -0500, you wrote: > > >Hi, Mike. Me brain cells finally started working. Over here, > > >Chevrolet sold a "dual fuel" pfi car, which could run on Gas, or Alky, > > >or both. Is an alchohol compatible pump likely to work for you? > > > ........... > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 08:15:55 -0700 From: bearbvd@xxx.net (Greg Hermann) Subject: Re: Subject: Re: water into efi system before injectors. >I have a manual on the dual fuel 90-91 lumina, seems it had some sort of >sensor on the fuel line to determine the percentage of alchohol in the >fuel. any idea how it would work? >byE >Mike >Swayze >mswayze@xxx.com >kswayze@xxx.net > Specifc gravity?? Conductivity?? Greg >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Mike (Perth, Western Australia)" >To: >Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 7:27 PM >Subject: Re: Subject: Re: water into efi system before injectors. > > >> At 02:02 AM 19/3/2000 -0500, you wrote: >> >Hi, Mike. Me brain cells finally started working. Over here, >> >Chevrolet sold a "dual fuel" pfi car, which could run on Gas, or Alky, >> >or both. Is an alchohol compatible pump likely to work for you? >> >........... > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) >in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 15:15:55 -0000 From: "Gavin" Subject: A water injection pump!!! Hi guys. I think I have found a kit which might solve a lot of problems. www.aquamist.co.uk I don't know what the prices are, but i think that there are links there. you can also buy bits seperately. Like a pump, etc. Yes, I know it's not as fun as building your own, but it's worth considering. Why re-invent the wheel?¿? C'ya -Gavin - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 10:35:28 -0500 From: "Swayze" Subject: Re: Circuit simulation these all cost money, but I believe demos are available. try a 'dogpile ' search on the following; LogicWorks, DigSim, B2Logic,WinBreadboard byE Mike Swayze mswayze@xxx.com kswayze@xxx.net - ----- Original Message ----- From: "MysticZ" To: Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2000 3:20 AM Subject: Circuit simulation > Does anyone know of any decent circuit simulation software? I'd prefer > something I don't have to spend any cash on since I'll only use it > occasionally. I'm working on a little project to see what I can figure > out about strange logic circuits before I dive into the EFI setup for > the Ninja. This is just a little box that has 3 audio inputs: radar > detector, CB, and tape/radio (a Rio in my case), and one output for > headphones (or more specifically helmet speakers since this is for a > motorcycle). The radar detector input has the highest priority, the Rio > input the lowest. If while riding along listening to the Rio, the radar > detector goes off, the input from the Rio is disabled and the radar > detector takes over. Get the idea? So far I've come up with a circuit > using AND gates and inverters but the truth tables keep coming up with a > couple of errors and I need a way to simulate it before I hunt down the > components. Since I'm at least a little sane still I plan on using > optoisolators to keep strange things from getting to the goodies plugged > into the inputs and frying them. > > Once I figure out how to make this work I'll be one step closer to the > EFI setup. Anyone have an idea? > -- > Steve > 97 Chevy Camaro Z28, Mystic teal, A4, not stock > 90 Kawasaki EX500A4, black, M6, not even CLOSE to stock! > lt1_z28@xxx.net/~lt1_z28 > Aluminum, steel, carbon fiber, titanium, and two cast iron balls. > McMillan Motorsports- http://www.mmsbikes.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 11:01:32 -0500 From: Joeo Subject: Re: Microcontrollers MysticZ wrote: > > Does anyone know of a decent, easy to deal with microcontroller that > will run C? I'm new at all this itty bitty computer stuff, and I could > just use a basic stamp, but I've heard that it isn't as fast as "some C > based controller" (exact phrase). Anyone have a clue what that could be? > -- > Steve > 97 Chevy Camaro Z28, Mystic teal, A4, not stock > 90 Kawasaki EX500A4, black, M6, not even CLOSE to stock! > lt1_z28@xxx.net/~lt1_z28 > Aluminum, steel, carbon fiber, titanium, and two cast iron balls. > McMillan Motorsports- http://www.mmsbikes.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org I've used a new micros board for a data acquisition system, the NMIX0016. It uses an 80C515A (8051 variant) microntroller...cost was around $120.00, and it comes with 'smallc'. If interested in my project, check out: It's under the MR2 page. joeo - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 12:00:03 -0500 From: "nacelp" Subject: Re: A water injection pump!!! Some wheels are so expensive, that they are worth reinventing, plus up til recently they were their only distributor. Grumpy - ----- Original Message ----- From: Gavin To: Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 10:15 AM Subject: A water injection pump!!! > Hi guys. > > I think I have found a kit which might solve a lot of problems. > > www.aquamist.co.uk > > I don't know what the prices are, but i think that there are links there. > > you can also buy bits seperately. Like a pump, etc. > > Yes, I know it's not as fun as building your own, but it's worth > considering. Why re-invent the wheel?¿? > > C'ya > -Gavin > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 01:26:47 From: "Mike (Perth, Western Australia)" Subject: Re: Subject: Re: water into efi system before injectors. At 09:18 AM 19/3/2000 -0500, you wrote: >I have a manual on the dual fuel 90-91 lumina, seems it had some sort of sensor on the fuel line to determine the percentage of alchohol in the fuel. any idea how it would work? COuld be a straightforward conductivity sensor, as alcohol conducts electricity quite well and petrol is for the most part an insulator... That would be the cheapest with minor drawbacks. A simple 2v ac signal (to reduce change of electrolysis) into a bridge, as the conductivity changes so does the 'indication' of alcohol in the fuel - this is based on an assumption there's no water in the petrol or in the alcohol for that matter... (I say 2v - because thats easy to generate as the output of a pair of gates from a LS ttl circuit through a pair of caps) But can be quite effective if you do switch between alcohol and water as the alcohol would sweep any water away and would therefore be good for some consistency next time you change fuels etc - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 01:32:23 From: "Mike (Perth, Western Australia)" Subject: Re: Subject: Re: water into efi system before injectors. At 10:10 AM 19/3/2000 -0500, you wrote: >First guess would be capacitance. I read a paper on automated measurements a >while back and it gave an over view of various methods of measuring liquids >in caustic environments. Yeah - thats another way to do it, though with alcohol and methanol the capacitance becomes shorted with an equivalent resistor of differing value dependent on alcohol or methanol or any water. For non conductive fuels that change, such as adding more or less octane booster etc - Its should be possible to detect the changes in dielectric value by having the fuel pass through large metal plates insulated from each other, could be wound up to save space. These metal plates form a capacitor which is part of an oscillator and the frequency of which can indicate changes in dielectric strength on a digital display - better yet feed the frequency output into a micro, provide a translation table and vwallah - poor mans octane readout... (would need temp compensation as the fuel dielectric strength will change with temp - but I don't know how much). Yet another peripheral for the do it yourself fuel injection project ;-) Rgds Mike Massen Ancient Sufi saying: "Should your God save you from adversity, choose another God" Pictures of site installation at Mendulong near Sipitang, Sabah (Malaysia) for container based RAPS... http://www.wantree.com.au/~erazmus Vehicle modifications on GMH Turbo, twin tyres, possible 175Kw at wheels Preliminary pictures at http://www.wantree.com.au/~erazmus/Twin_tyre_vehicle/ My editorial on twin-tyre opinion and good reference about tyres:- http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/2195/ttyreopinion.html - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 01:39:49 From: "Mike (Perth, Western Australia)" Subject: Re: Circuit simulation At 10:35 AM 19/3/2000 -0500, you wrote: >these all cost money, but I believe demos are available. try a 'dogpile ' search on the following; >LogicWorks, DigSim, B2Logic,WinBreadboard Sorry - not acquainted with local venacular - whats a 'dogpile' search ? Tah :) mike - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 12:24:07 -0500 From: Shannen Durphey Subject: Re: Circuit simulation Mike (Perth, Western Australia) wrote: > > At 10:35 AM 19/3/2000 -0500, you wrote: > >these all cost money, but I believe demos are available. try a 'dogpile ' > search on the following; > >LogicWorks, DigSim, B2Logic,WinBreadboard > > Sorry - not acquainted with local venacular - whats a 'dogpile' search ? > > Tah > > :) mike > http://www.dogpile.com/ Shannen - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 02:05:05 From: "Mike (Perth, Western Australia)" Subject: Re: H2O pump At 01:28 PM 14/3/2000 -0500, you wrote: >The one I use for my Syclone IC circulator pump = ShurFlo - Positive >displacement (triple diaphragm type), plastic = yes, but not too shabby, >not a submersible deal at all. OH yeah - I remember now, seen em at the local yacht place, fairly large IIRC) and damn expensive - s/h was about A$220, new about $300. The ozzie dollar is way low at moment so any imports will cost a heap, think I'll try another less expensive wheel (Tah grumpy), Incidentally those small centrifugal pumps are A$10 each and develop 15psi very small but not completely robust - have the number "XD105" on them - sounds like they came off some old Ford ;-) Rgds :) Mike - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 02:23:24 From: "Mike (Perth, Western Australia)" Subject: Re: Circuit simulation At 12:24 PM 19/3/2000 -0500, Shannen Durphey wrote: >> Sorry - not acquainted with local venacular - whats a 'dogpile' search ? >http://www.dogpile.com/ Neato - quite nice, straightforward user interface, the one I've been using mostly (till now) is http://www.infind.com which has been fine for most stuff, this ones different and worth a bookmark, Tah :) mike - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 13:42:54 -0500 From: Barry Tisdale Subject: Re: H2O pump I think I paid around $68 for it @xxx. Size = maybe 4" diameter, 6-7" long (after removing pressure switch). Barry At 02:05 AM 03/20/2000, you wrote: >At 01:28 PM 14/3/2000 -0500, you wrote: >>The one I use for my Syclone IC circulator pump = ShurFlo - Positive >>displacement (triple diaphragm type), plastic = yes, but not too shabby, >>not a submersible deal at all. > >OH yeah - I remember now, seen em at the local yacht place, fairly >large IIRC) and damn expensive - s/h was about A$220, new about $300. > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 15:57:15 -0500 From: "Swayze" Subject: nozzle selection was:Re: A water injection pump!!! not meaning to blow the hi pressure thing, but what about a 'misting' nozzle from an agricultural supply. I believe they are designed for low pressure apps with plastic tanks. (don't mean to spread fertilizer.. just herbicides...) byE Mike (surf's up) Swayze mswayze@xxx.com kswayze@xxx.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 14:06:10 -0800 From: Scotty Grover Subject: Re: Corvair EFI The most Corvair EFI systems I have seen are based on the Datsun 280Z; reason being similarity of engine size (Corvair is 2.7L.) Try www.corvair.org as they might be able to give more data or tell you where to get it. 280Z system is batch-fire; I am using 280Z components trying to set up a sequential-firing system. > > Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 14:23:03 -0500 > From: Joe Curran > Subject: EFI Corvair? > > Greetings all, > > I am steadily building myself up to the point that I might > start to consider thinking about possibly adding EFI to my > Corvair, someday. I came across this list, and noticed that > there had been mention of EFI Corvairs in the past. I know > they exist, and I know that Clark's now sells a kit to do > it (poorly, as far as I can tell). Has anyone on this list > ever gotten EFI to work on a 'vair? > > My original thoughts were to modify my heads to accept 3 barrel > Weber carbs (IDA-3) from an old Porsche 911. Then to use TWM throttle > bodies in place of the carbs, and cobble the rest together. I > know of the two SDS modules that have been sold for Corvair > applications, and I also know they haven't been installed, yet. > For a first run, I may try to adapt the electronics and hardware > from a GM 3.1L V6, since the SDS unit is a bit pricey. > > This is a ways down the line, but I'd like to solicit some input > before I get started. Any advice, comments, etc. would be greatly > appreciated. > > Thanks, > - -Joe Curran > espace@xxx.edu > > '66 Corvair Monza coupe w/'67 110/PG > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 17:29:06 -0500 From: "nacelp" Subject: Re: nozzle selection was:Re: A water injection pump!!! If it's not misting, it''s dribbling. Figure out how to get good distribution, with dribbling, and then you can use low pressure. It's high pressure that is the key for it to work, weither N/A turbo, smurbo, graden tractor, or LSR car. It has to be a very fine mist if your not doing timing cylinder injection. Atomization, or vaporization need a fine mist. Grumpy Datz just based on what I've seen. No guessing, or theory > not meaning to blow the hi pressure thing, but what about a 'misting' nozzle from an agricultural supply. I believe they are designed for low pressure apps with plastic tanks. (don't mean to spread fertilizer.. just herbicides...) > > byE > Mike (surf's up) > Swayze > mswayze@xxx.com > kswayze@xxx.net > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 17:43:25 -0500 From: "nacelp" Subject: Re: Corvair EFI Datsun?. Why step that far into history?. (opinion, here, the AFM Bosch systems are just dated in my book). What can you do to a datsun ecm to calibrate it to suit your specific combination?, last I heard nothing. Why not take advantage of a fully hac'd system, curtiousy or the ecm guy, and have some easy to find, fully tunable system, that uses say a gm 1227730 or 1227165 ecm (for port), or just editing the1227747, 1228747 for TBI.. Software is available cheap for editing any of these. Just by example, take a 1227730, the editor for it is available from Tunercat, or TerryKelly. The ecm guy has a hac of it so what ain't in the tuner editors is covered there. Use any 6 cyl memcal, and the gm components other then connectors (on the sensors) are the sam from about day one, as far as the MAP systems go. Junkyards have lots of EFI GM cars there, some areas Datsuns are as common as hen's teeth. Grumpy > The most Corvair EFI systems I have seen are based on the Datsun 280Z; reason being similarity > of engine size (Corvair is 2.7L.) Try www.corvair.org as they might be able to give more data > or tell you where to get it. 280Z system is batch-fire; I am using 280Z components trying to > set up a sequential-firing system. > > > > > Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 14:23:03 -0500 > > From: Joe Curran > > Subject: EFI Corvair? > > > > Greetings all, > > > > I am steadily building myself up to the point that I might > > start to consider thinking about possibly adding EFI to my > > Corvair, someday. I came across this list, and noticed that > > there had been mention of EFI Corvairs in the past. I know > > they exist, and I know that Clark's now sells a kit to do > > it (poorly, as far as I can tell). Has anyone on this list > > ever gotten EFI to work on a 'vair? > > > > My original thoughts were to modify my heads to accept 3 barrel > > Weber carbs (IDA-3) from an old Porsche 911. Then to use TWM throttle > > bodies in place of the carbs, and cobble the rest together. I > > know of the two SDS modules that have been sold for Corvair > > applications, and I also know they haven't been installed, yet. > > For a first run, I may try to adapt the electronics and hardware > > from a GM 3.1L V6, since the SDS unit is a bit pricey. > > > > This is a ways down the line, but I'd like to solicit some input > > before I get started. Any advice, comments, etc. would be greatly > > appreciated. > > > > Thanks, > > - -Joe Curran > > espace@xxx.edu > > > > '66 Corvair Monza coupe w/'67 110/PG > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 19:28:42 -0500 From: Joeo Subject: Water injection This guy developed a neat water injection system. joeo - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:40:54 +0800 From: dzorde@xxx.com Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V5 #109 Hi Mike, Friend of mine just had a turbo from an EVO II motor rebuilt for his Starion (the nut cam of the front shaft). With a new compressor wheel it cost him $600 from memory (the new compressor wheel alone was $400). Marlows Joondalup has the colour tunes ex-stk for around $40. They also have a CO/NOX gas analyser (haven't had a really good look at it) for around $300 (a UK brand I think). Dan dzorde@xxx.com Subject: Chip burning 101? (Or, newby questions II) Ok, now that we've discussed possibilities for donors and the approach to getting parts for a junkyard EFI question, I've got to find out more about how to tune these things. Somebody (I can't remember whom, but thanks, whoever it is) posted a link to where I can obtain software for custom EPROMs, but I've got a lot more questions about them. First, what kind of device do I use to transfer the data from the computer to the EPROM? Where can I get one of these (or maybe plans to wire one up?), and how much would it cost? Second, it seems some newer ECU's have programming transfered to them through some kind of plug instead of through a chip. Does this mean I can get an appropriate factory ECU from a junkyard and tune it with a laptop like an aftermarket unit? If so, what are the pros and cons of these ECU's vs ones that use EPROMs? Thanks! Matt Cramer - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 23:03:47 -0500 From: "nacelp" Subject: Re: Chip burning 101? (Or, newby questions II) > Ok, now that we've discussed possibilities for donors and the approach to > getting parts for a junkyard EFI question, I've got to find out more about > how to tune these things. Somebody (I can't remember whom, but thanks, > whoever it is) posted a link to where I can obtain software for custom > EPROMs, but I've got a lot more questions about them. > First, what kind of device do I use to transfer the data from the computer > to the EPROM? Called a prom burner. Needham's has them try something like www.needhams.com while I guess down for the moment the archives have mention of 10's of vendors selling them Where can I get one of these (or maybe plans to wire one > up?), and how much would it cost? Used from like $75 to $400 new, $200 about an average. > Second, it seems some newer ECU's have programming transfered to them > through some kind of plug instead of through a chip. Does this mean I can > get an appropriate factory ECU from a junkyard and tune it with a laptop > like an aftermarket unit? If so, what are the pros and cons of these ECU's > vs ones that use EPROMs? Saves working with eproms. Any one of several errors can totally shut down a fash memory pcm, where about all you can do with a eprom ecm one is need a new prom. You can use an eprom emulator and not have to be constantly messing with eproms. A web search or again in the archives will supply more info. Might try starting at the shallow end of the pool, ie eproms at first, just what I did while learning what to do. Easier to get a ecm for a 90 chevy pick up, rather then a 98 camaro pcm, least around here. Grumpy > Thanks! > > Matt Cramer > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- > To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) > in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:27:39 +0800 From: "Ken Thompson" Subject: Re: DIY_EFI Digest V5 #107 From: Kevin Jaeger (Ken's Associate) Bernd, I apologise for my apparent heaviness of comment in relation to your statement "K-Jet would be OK for boat". I have had 3 friends killed in 3 years due to boating accidents. I have a thing about reliability on the water. I was not over impressed with the state pathologist having to dissect a good friend, just so they could conclude he died by drowning. So I guess the way I answered had more to do with that, than K-Jet on a boat, but I stand by what I have said about K-Jet, not being suitable for a boat. If Clair's engine was to be fitted to a beach buggy, I would have made no comment. Now if we are talking boats, one needs to be sure that the system is absolutely reliable, if not don't use it or recommend it. All pleasure boats induct the spray of salt water (ocean going), it is the nature of the beast. If the boat in question is for use in a fresh water lake, filled with 4 feet of water, then this is all academic, as Clair will never have to swim home, she can walk. No Salt Water Crocodiles in Canada that I know of. I guess a 3 foot child would be in trouble if she / he had to walk home, across a 4 foot lake? I am sure you could do a great job rigging up a K-Jet that would function wonderfully on the water (the first day). Two weeks later, I will bet the second days fun will not be as much fun. One can construct well designed air boxes, centrifuges etc and salt spray is still going to be induced. Seizure of the actuator, the arm roller etc is likely to be a problem (air valve arm). Might be fine the day of commissioning, but put it away and come back in two weeks, rust will be a problem. Benz' and others you mentioned have got pretty good air filtration systems, but I do not see one system in amongst them, that could double as a watercraft water excluder (for want of a more suitable description). Who cares if Lucas' A/F ratio is not perfect, never said it was. It can be set up pretty good www.kinsler.com Lucas was used in Formula One on down, was very big in boats. A pleasure boat is more like a performance engine than a street trim BMW. Not much stop start driving or gear changes. If 3000 RPM is where it will be driven, would be nice to tune for max torque there. The Lucas (Triumph) bodies do lend themselves to simple set up for tuned length runners. After a day on the water, give the each port a spray with non waxing, dewatering compound. The Triumph runners would have plenty of velocity to purge any water that would be inducted. The velocity in the nooks and crannies inside the K-Jet main box (I call it this, for those not familiar with K-Jet) would not be great, based on the cross section area of parts of it. You know what happens when a carburettor induction manifold is badly designed? Fuel separation, uneven combustion etc (carbie V8s now), sump dilution, bla, bla, bla. You have seen the crap that collects inside K-Jet's air / fuel reg. with normal driving? How / where will air / fuel reg be mounted on boat? At what temp will it operate at? Under the bonnet, it operates at under bonnet temp, less what ever cooling effect may come from fresh air, depending on where air is tapped. Remote mounting on Clair's motor would be an interesting exercise. Check operating temp of box in the car, then on the boat. This will play a part as to how quick the thing will rust out. I get paid to come up with quick fixes, we have a new sports car customer in the US who kicked butt at the opening Sebring race meeting. We sent them a pile of stuff that we believed would work on their sports car. Never seen their car. Experience said it would work and it did. They told us, after the event that they had never gone to Sebring with such a strong engine. Head temp and associated factors will be the biggest problem for any future development, as not much more can be squeezed from their kind of engine. How did we know what we sent them would help them? This is called "been there done that". I stand by what I have said, no amount of 250,000 trouble free km over the road will convince me that K-Jet will function perfectly on water on it's second trip out. Try this : Pull the air cleaner off your Merc. Jam the throttle at 2,500 RPM. Stand back with a kero cleaning gun with the pick up hose in a 205 litre drum of salt water. Direct the spray toward the engine and run the experiment for half an hour. Shut everything down and come back in two weeks. Pull the air valve box apart and inspect all parts. The LUCAS throttle bodies on the other hand consist of a butterfly and shaft and ram tubes if one has opted for tuned length runners. A rev and a squirt with CRC down each throat would be the sum total of post service required on our Lucas system, but I think with K-Jet user would always find himself / herself reaching for his / her tool box. My previous comments were all about reliability on the water = safety. If your Merc stopped in a lion park, someone will rescue you, provided you do not attempt to walk home. If your boat stopped, due to a K-Jet fuel system failure, you may not be rescued and a swim home, may not be possible. The pic is not a Lucas system, it is Autronic. The turbos are Garrett ball bearing type, which by the way reduces back pressure for a given boost on the same compressor. This should be a factor to consider, with the on going discussion on turbo charging and water injection. Regards, Kevin. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 22:31:54 -0600 From: MysticZ Subject: Re: Chip burning 101? (Or, newby questions II) nacelp wrote: > > pick up, rather then a 98 camaro pcm, least around here. If someone figures out how to reprogram a 98 (actually 97) Camaro ECM, PLEASE let me know! I have the schematics and stuff for messing with 94 and 95, but 96+ is OBDII and next to impossible to fiddle with :( - -- Steve 97 Chevy Camaro Z28, Mystic teal, A4, not stock 90 Kawasaki EX500A4, black, M6, not even CLOSE to stock! lt1_z28@xxx.net/~lt1_z28 Aluminum, steel, carbon fiber, titanium, and two cast iron balls. McMillan Motorsports- http://www.mmsbikes.com - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe from diy_efi, send "unsubscribe diy_efi" (without the quotes) in the body of a message (not the subject) to majordomo@xxx.org ------------------------------ End of DIY_EFI Digest V5 #112 ***************************** To subscribe to DIY_EFI-Digest, send the command: subscribe diy_efi-digest in the body of a message to "Majordomo@xxx. 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