I found this at Frugal Squirrel's. Hope you like it.

Pistol Caliber Carbines

Every United States Marine, regardless of his ultimate job, is trained as a
rifleman. Similarly, as a Militia member your mission is to serve your
community in time of need as a light infantry rifleman and your primary
Militia weapon should be a military type semiautomatic rifle, preferably in
a standard U.S. military caliber. With proper training and technique, a
full-power battle rifle chambered for 7.62mm NATO (.308 Winchester) or
.30-06 will allow you to dominate the ground out to a range of 500 yards.
The U.S. armed forces claim the same maximum effective range for the M-16
assault rifle, but in truth the 5.56mm NATO (.223 Remington) quickly loses
stopping power beyond about 200 yards and few people can consistently hit a
target with it beyond about 300 yards. The same is true for rifles chambered
for the intermediate-powered 7.62x39mm Russian, like the SKS and Kalashnikov
types. If your primary Militia weapon should be a military type rifle, why
should you consider also owning a pistol caliber carbine?

Law Enforcement Use. One mission of the Militia is to assist local law
enforcement and help maintain order during civil disturbances. In an urban
environment your full-power battle rifle, capable of shooting through two or
three houses, might not be welcome. Law enforcement officers carry handguns
as defensive weapons that will always be instantly available, but most
officers can't consistently hit a man with a handgun beyond about 25 yards,
although a good shot with an accurate handgun can extend this range to about
50 yards. When they know they are going into a shooting situation, most law
enforcement officers rely upon their riot shotgun or call out a SWAT team
armed with rifles or submachine guns. Up close there is no more devastating
defensive weapon than a buckshot loaded shotgun, but effective patterns and
adequate stopping power are limited to about 25 yards. In a roadblock
situation, buckshot has very little chance of getting inside a vehicle
unless the perpetrator rolls down his window or opens his door and invites
it in. 5.56mm rifles also lack sufficient penetration against vehicles.
While solid slugs extend the range of a shotgun to about 50 yards and can
penetrate most vehicles, they dangerously over-penetrate both suspects and
building walls, endangering innocent bystanders. Hollowpoint pistol bullets
tend to break up rather than ricochet and also penetrate less building
materials than high power rifle bullets, presenting less danger to
bystanders. A carbine is defined as a light rifle with a short barrel
(usually 20" or less). A pistol caliber carbine offers a compromise between
the excessive power of the military rifle or shotgun slug and the short
range of the police handgun and shotgun. Many law enforcement agencies have
equipped their squad cars with submachine guns or carbines as a replacement
for or supplement to their traditional shotguns. As a civilian in the State
of Washington you are prohibited from owning a submachine gun, so further
discussion will be limited to carbines.

Advantages of Carbines. Most U.S. law enforcement agencies use either the
the 9mm pistol or .38/.357 revolvers. If your Militia mission is to assist
law enforcement, having a carbine that can fire their ammunition is a
logistical advantage. The cowboy or frontier lawman who carried a six
shooter and a lever action saddle carbine chambered for the same round knew
about the advantage of having only one type of ammunition for both arms.
Carrying this convenience one step further, the Marlin 9mm Camp Carbine can
use any double column Smith & Wesson 9mm pistol magazine and the Marlin .45
ACP Camp Carbine uses the same magazine as the Colt Government Model pistol.
An advantage carbines have over handguns is increased range and accuracy. It
is generally much easier to shoot a rifle more accurately than a handgun.
When fired at targets with the same cartridge, 75 or even 100 yard carbine
groups are usually about the same size as 25 yard handgun groups. Pistol
caliber carbines have a maximum effective range against a man-sized target
of about 125 to 150 yards. Low recoil (except for the .44 Magnum) and light
weight of pistol caliber carbines makes them easier for a novice to learn to
shoot and easier for persons of small stature to handle than a heavy
recoiling ten pound battle rifle or twelve gauge shotgun. In an defensive
emergency, you may have a need to arm a trusted friend or neighbor or a
responsible adolescent family member. You can show any reasonably
intelligent and coordinated person how to load and operate a lever action
carbine in a few minutes and they will probably be able to hit a man at a
range of at least 25 yards. Having another person capable of pulling a
trigger watching your back adds to your own security and allows them to
provide for their own protection. If you are defending your home or another
building and have to fire a high power rifle or magnum handgun, the walls,
ceiling and floor all reflect and magnify the deafening muzzle blast. When
firing a rifle or magnum handgun defensively, people have been known to
cease firing after the first shot or even drop their weapon thinking that it
has blown up. This can get you killed. A pistol caliber carbine has less
muzzle blast than a handgun that fires the same cartridge and much less
muzzle blast than a high power rifle. Most pistol rounds will also gain
additional velocity and power when they have a longer barrel in which to
burn their propellant powder. The velocity gain is more pronounced with
higher pressure rounds. Low pressure rounds like the .38 Special, .44
Special or .45 ACP gain little or no extra velocity, but higher pressure +P
versions of these cartridges or "hot" handloads will pick up about 100 to
200 feet per second. Standard velocity 9mm rounds gain an average of about
250 feet per second which moves them up to roughly the same stopping power
level as a 9mm +P+ or .357 Magnum handgun (which is very good). When .357
and .44 Magnum rounds are fired from carbines, they gain about 500 to 600
feet per second. The increased power of pistol rounds when fired from
carbines allows them to penetrate vehicles better than the same round from a
handgun. They also penetrate light brush with less deflection than 5.56mm
rifle bullets.

Ammunition Selection. The significant velocity gain of carbines with magnum
rounds means that you must carefully select ammunition for them. Not
surprisingly, hollowpoint handgun bullets are designed to expand properly at
handgun velocity. When fired much faster, they will often over-expand and
virtually disintegrate on target before the bullet has sufficiently
penetrated. This can create a severe surface wound that may not
incapacitate. While this is bad for hunting, it is much worse when your
target is shooting back at you. Factory loads for the .357 or .44 Magnum
which are labeled "Medium Velocity" equal the power of high velocity loads
fired from handguns and make excellent carbine loads. While the .357 Magnum
125 grain jacketed hollowpoint has the best record for stopping power from
handguns, hollowpoint ammo for .357 Magnum carbines used defensively or for
big game should not be lighter than 158 grains. If you want to use the same
.357 Magnum load for both a handgun and a carbine, a compromise to consider
would be the Winchester 145 grain Silvertip or the El Dorado 150 grain
Starfire. Be aware, however, that these rounds will give less than the best
performance from your handgun and might over-expand from your carbine. If
the only .357 Magnum ammunition available is a light 110 or 125 grain
hollowpoint, it would be better instead to use a high velocity .38 Special
+P load (any weight) in your .357 Magnum carbine. Hollowpoint .44 Magnum big
game or defense loads should be limited to 240 grains or heavier. For better
penetration against vehicles at roadblocks, full metal jacket rounds should
be used in semiautomatics and magnum cartridges should be either jacketed
softpoint or heavy jacketed hollowpoint loads (i.e. 180 grain .357 Magnum or
300 grain .44 Magnum). To avoid excessive barrel leading and fouling, lead
bullets should not be used in 9mm or magnum caliber carbines. Lead bullets
may be used in .38 Special, .44 Special and .45 ACP cartridges or light
magnum caliber handloads as long as velocity is kept below 1000 feet per
second for soft lead bullets and below 1200 feet per second with hard lead
alloy bullets. To prevent chain firing in lever action carbines with tubular
magazines, you must use only flat point bullets. If all you have are
cartridges with pointed bullets, in a pinch you can convert your lever
action carbine into a two-shot repeater by loading a single cartridge
directly into the chamber and then placing only one round into the otherwise
empty magazine.

Selecting a Carbine. There are basically three types of pistol caliber
carbines currently available; military type semiautomatics, the Marlin Camp
Carbines and lever actions. Military type carbines are simply civilian legal
versions of submachine guns with barrels at least 16" long and without the
full auto function. The most commonly available carbines of this type are
the Auto Ordnance .45 caliber Thompson, the 9mm AR-15, the Heckler & Koch
HK-94 and the Uzi. While not technically chambered for pistol ammunition,
the M-1 carbine also fits into this class of weapon. However M-1 carbines
lack sufficient stopping power unless softpoint or hollowpoint ammo is used,
which many M-1 carbines will not reliably feed. Military type carbines
generally feature rugged reliability, ease of maintenance, large magazine
capacity and non-glare surfaces. However, since most submachine guns are
designed to operate with military specification full metal jacket roundnose
ammunition, semiautomatic carbines derived from them may not reliably feed
hollowpoints. The federal ban on so-called "assault weapons" prohibits the
manufacture of firearms with two or more military type features, such as
pistol grips, flash suppressors and folding stocks. The ban also prohibits
further manufacture of magazines holding more than 10 rounds. This has
frozen the available supply of military type carbines and high capacity
magazines, so be prepared for a severe case of sticker shock when you check
the price of one of these fine defensive and utility firearms. You are also
likely to have a hard time finding a sufficient quantity of high capacity
magazines. The Marlin Camp Carbines sell for only about $300, but are
designed to operate with lower pressure U.S. commercial factory loads and
are not reliable with heavy loads. Mil-Spec 9mm NATO rounds, 9mm +P+ or
"hot" handloads will jam the hammer back and render the weapon inoperable
until it is completely disassembled with a screwdriver and pin punch.
Magazine capacities are currently limited to 7 rounds for the Model 45 and
10 rounds for the Model 9, but higher capacity extended magazines are
available if you can locate them and are willing to pay the inflated price
caused by the "assault weapons" ban. Marlin, Winchester and Rossi all make
.357 Magnum and .44 Magnum lever action carbines which, like the Marlin Camp
Carbines, sell for about $300. The Marlin Camp Carbines and the lever
actions can all benefit from the addition of large aperture peep sights or
low-power (3X or less magnification) telescopic sights. The standard iron
sights on most military type carbines are usually adequate and most can be
fitted with low-power scopes. Another useful accessory is a sling, which can
help you shoot more accurately.

Survival Considerations. In a long term survival situation following a
breakdown of the social order, pistol ammunition will likely be more
commonly available than the .378 Eargeschplitten-Loudenboomer Magnum that
might be your favorite elk rifle. In preparation for long term survival,
pistol ammunition is much cheaper than rifle ammunition, allowing you to
stockpile a greater quantity. Inexpensive pistol ammunition will also allow
you to practice more now before you have to depend on your carbine to
protect yourself or feed your family. The increased accuracy and power of
pistol ammunition when fired from carbines allows you to squeeze the most
potential from every last round. A .357 Magnum carbine can also fire .38
Specials and a .44 Magnum carbine can fire .44 Specials. This versatility
adds to the tasks which can be performed by utilizing different power level
cartridges for different jobs. Farm pests and varmints that feed on your
crops, grain storage or livestock steal food from your family's table and
are therefore life threatening. While varmints like groundhogs and coyotes
are not commonly eaten, they are not inedible; most people now are just not
hungry enough. If you cast your own bullets, you can make about a half dozen
.38 Special reloads for about the same cost and the same weight of powder as
one .22 centerfire varmint load and you will destroy less meat (although
your effective range will only be about 50 to 75 yards). For small game
hunting, a .38 Special or 9mm with non-hollowpoint bullets will drop a
rabbit or squirrel with more authority than any .22 rimfire and will not
destroy significantly more meat. The .357 Magnum is considered a marginal
round for handgun deer hunting and jacketed softpoint bullets rarely expand
at handgun velocities. Fired from a carbine, high quality .357 Magnum 158
grain jacketed hollowpoints (like the Hornady XTP or the Speer Gold Dot),
158 grain jacketed softpoints and 180 grain jacketed hollowpoints have
sufficient expansion, penetration and accuracy out to about 100 yards for
deer and possibly even elk. Note that this applies to a survival emergency
only; the .357 Magnum is not allowed for big game hunting by Washington
State fish and game regulations. A .44 Magnum carbine will put down a deer
as well as or better than a .30-30 using about half as much powder. If you
should be confronted by a pack of wild dogs who think you look like dinner,
a quick handling carbine will afford you better protection than a bolt
action hunting rifle. While not a replacement for a military type
semiautomatic rifle for defense against two legged predators, a pistol
caliber carbine can be pressed into such service in an emergency. If you are
in a fixed defensive position with a lever action carbine and a footlocker
full of ammo, you can shoot one round and then load one round into the
magazine every four or five seconds all day long. By the way, this equals
the sustained rate of fire for the M-16 rifle, or the rate which can be
maintained indefinitely without seriously overheating, which is 12 to 15
rounds per minute. This rate of fire would be the envy of any 18th century
Militia member who won our freedom with his Brown Bess musket.

Pistol caliber carbines offer great utility for use in home defense, law
enforcement and survival situations and can be used for fulfilling the
Militia role of protecting life, liberty and property. There are many worse
ways to spend your money and few better.

"Carpe Diem, quam minimum credula postero."

John Burns
JDB357@...

1* 419

_____________________________________________________________________________________
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I have two 686 four inch S&W very heavy accurate not for carry guns. I have a couple of 66 and 3 65 S&W. I just got a great deal on two 65 S&W it is a good carry gun in a slide holster and heavy enough to use in woods with 158 grain .357.

For what you describe I'd go with a S&W 65 3 inch. I got mine from www.aimsurplus.com for 220. Then shipping and FFL ran it to about 265. They are mid-70's production police returns. I would not advise any new S&W, great guns lousy politics.

Bill | 28|25|2001-03-31 06:57:17|owens12@internet-works.net|Re: help deciding|

Just another free opinion. If I was going to have one 357, it would
have to be light yet shootable. Give yourself an early christmas
present and go with the Taurus 617T. It is a ported 2", fixed sight,
7 shot revolver. It is +P rated and comes with a lifetime warrenty.
The best part is it only weighs 19.9 ounces. It lists on the web
sight for $599.00 but I have found that a good dealer can get it for
about $490.00. It is $190.00 over the range you were discussing,
but hey, $19.00 a year for 10 years is only 5 cents a day.
http://www.taurususa.com/titanium/617t.html

Who am I to speak. I own one of the most expensive 357's around. I
wouldn't trade my Deseret Eagle for any revolver. Good luck. AKO.

| 29|29|2001-04-29 20:30:16|fwilliam@inreach.com|Mini-14 Group|
As many of you know, the Ruger Mini-14 group did not survive the
eGroups to Yahoo conversion. The group has been recreated. If you
would like to join, visit: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Mini-14 to
subscribe to the new group.
| 30|30|2001-08-02 19:37:06|assasukasse@yahoo.it|reloading a 357|
I'm reloading .357 mag with a lee loader, 5 grains of Gm that is
almost similar to sipe and to unique, and a swc lead bullet with
crimping groove.
But i found out that i am not so skilled in crimping, how should a
good crimping look like?
should i give an hard or a light crimp on lead bullet?
and what happens if some of them are not crimped or crimped too hard?
is dangerous to shoot in a 686/6''?
thanks
ago
| 31|31|2001-12-10 23:23:54|corserine|.357Mag in under-lever actioned carbine for foxes?|
Hi Guys,
Could anyone tell me what would be a good load that would fly
reasonably flat and be accurate out to 120 yards and still
effectively kill a fox, when fired from an under-lever actioned
carbine?

I ask this rather lame question because I live in the UK, which as
you know has very restrictive gun control legislation.
I am attempting to convince my local Firearms Liason Office that just
such a rig is suitable for the job of killing foxes out to those
ranges. Which we all know it is quite caplable of, but I have a very
sceptical Police Officer on my case who isn't familar with such set-
ups and I need some good arguments to win him over. (This ridiculous
situation occurs as the reasult of the gun control lobby getting the
upper hand!)

My thanks in anticapation.
| 32|31|2001-12-14 04:18:38|mckannick|Re: .357Mag in under-lever actioned carbine for foxes?|
Hard to find ballistics for .357 in anything but handguns, but try
web search looking for 'reloading' info (Accurate powders, etc.).
Might have to do a bit of interpreting of the data, as most reports
are for out of 6" handgun, so obviously from an 18-20" carbine ( I.E.
Winchester mod 94 ) would be even more potent! Definately take out
your foxes!
Good luck!

| 33|30|2001-12-14 04:26:40|mckannick|Re: reloading a 357|
I wouldn't list myself as any expert at reloading yet, but I'd think
that the crimp (loose or tight ) wouldn't be as critical as the
powder load. As for what it would look like, I always tried to get a
"factory" load of the same type round and compare the looks and
lenght dimension for my loads when finished. Additionally, I only use
copper clad bullets.

| 34|14|2001-12-14 07:43:50|mckannick|Re: Pistol Caliber Carbines|
A good useful article, with one detail I might question, quote: "the
Marlin 9mm Camp Carbine can
use any double column Smith & Wesson 9mm pistol magazine"
The only S & W magazine that fits MY camp carbine is the model 59.
That one works great, you can pop a mag from carbine to pistol,
including those expensive and hard to find hi - cap 15 to 30 rounders!
| 35|35|2001-12-14 07:50:54|mckannick|Attention corserine!|
I just read further back in the postings ( # 14 ) that may also give
you some info on the .357 fired in a carbine. The guy says you can
hunt deer and even elk(! with a lucky shot !) with a hot load heavy
bullet.
| 36|25|2001-12-14 08:05:21|mckannick|Re: help deciding|
Another vote for Taurus here, I've got a mod 66 7 shot 6" (too big to
carry comfortably all day ) but I think I'll eventually get a snub
nose for carrying. Alternating with my Taurus PT92 9mm. Hollow points
always in either.
| 37|30|2001-12-15 15:16:02|ice_m2|Re: reloading a 357|
--- In 357_MAGNUM@y..., assasukasse@y... wrote:
hard?
cannot make out what powder you are using. first,all your cases need
to be the same length. second,if you are using a slow burning powder
(like w.w.-296) you need a firm crimp (roll crimp for
revolvers,tamper crimp for pistols). with out a crimp the bullet
could creep forward under recoil and tie up your gun. i cast my own
in rifles and handguns,might want to try a lyman 'm' die for
expanding ,also will stop shaving the bullet while seating it. there
have been a lot of articles wrote on this-case neck tension vs.
crimping. i crimp for my semi-auto rifles and lever actions but not
for my single shots and/or bolt actions. my handguns get a roll crimp
and/or tamper crimp and/or a profile crimp. i have not had good luck
with the lee factory crimp dies in rifles but decent luck with
pistols ones.
| 38|25|2001-12-15 23:01:00|ice_m2|Re: help deciding|
--- In 357_MAGNUM@y..., "mckannick" points
when i was a ffl dealer,sold a lot of taurus's,got a few bad ones in
the bunch,shipped back,new guns that really shot "great" were shipped
back. the 'k' frame smiths will stretch on a steady diet of 357 ammo.
i stretched my first 357 (mdl-13 3" heavy barrel) s&w never bought
another one. the taurus mdls seem to love 357 magnum loads. have a
colt 'snake' made in 1986 but it see's a lot of 38 loads as the lock
work dates back to the late 1800's but its been retimed twice. the
ruger is 'bank vault strong' desinged from the ground up (based on
speed and service sixes) to shoot 357 mag. all day long. i just
bought a dan wesson pistol pak for $300 2" thru 8" barrel,more
accurate than my 'snake'has great sights,now if i just can find grips
for it that i like. s&w has a great gunsmith shop and s&w makes the
tranny's for H.D. the kimber frames and slides and a lot of other
stuff,yes i do boycott s&w but i use there services,my 625-2 goes in
next week DAMN THING TIED UP!!!!!it is a 1989 model i bought used for
150 dollars with the cylinder not ringed-now i see why. any way can i
post some files on data????? i cannot find the list owner and/or mod.
i have data on revolvers and rifles and on the 357 mag and a lot of
38 spl. reloading and casting=1986 i am a new member here this seems
like a great list.
| 39|39|2001-12-16 03:11:16|tlfreek|gun show|
hi I just got back from a gun show and need some advice. I can't
decide on a gun. Part of me wants a 22 pistol that's cheap to shoot
while the other half wants a raging bull 454 causal or a Desert Eagle
44 Mag or 357 MAG.

if you had to do it over again--which would you choose???

Thanks in advance
| 40|39|2001-12-16 04:44:00|playguitar4him|Re: gun show|
Instead of a 454 I would go with the new 480 Ruger if you want a big gun.

BILL
| 41|35|2001-12-17 22:22:20|John Sacramento|Re: Attention corserine!|
I know people hunt deer with .357 revolvers, so foxes and smaller vermin should be no problem. Early in our national history, lever action rifles chambered in pistol rounds were extensively used for duties such as getting food, and protection from road agents and other hostile men. I understand the 44-40 has worked extremely well as a deer rifle for about one hundred years in the south-east. Other calibers are as effective. I doubt todays foxes and such are being born with skin any thicker or more bullet proof than their ancestors' skins were.

John
Sacramento CA
--

poohgyrr@...
| 42|31|2001-12-23 04:29:54|ako_60|Re: .357Mag in under-lever actioned carbine for foxes?|
I loaded several different mixes. I have tried a dozen different
powders and bullits. I was loading for a Marlin 1894 cs, in 357
magnum. It has an 18 inch barrel. I found this rifle will shoot a
one inch group at 75 yards. The load I use is as follows:

158 grain speer gold dot xtp
14.2 grains of hodgdon H-110
winchester magnum pistol primers
a light crimp.

This load also works very in a Deseret Eagle 357 magnum
| 43|39|2001-12-30 06:13:35|mckannick|Re: gun show|
--- In 357_MAGNUM@y..., "tlfreek" Eagle
Taurus and one other make a .22 cal / .22 magnum 'convertable'
revolver (switchable cylinders) for dirt cheap plinking and the
equivalent to about a .38 special when shooting the magnums. On the
other hand you can shoot .38's in a .357 for relatively cheap
plinking (about $10 or less a box where I live or as I do, reload for
even cheaper.)
| 44|39|2002-01-09 22:24:45|John Sacramento|Re: gun show|
I'd look at a .357 because it is so doggone flexible, and buy a pellet pistol to practice trigger and sight control really cheap. YMMV

| 45|45|2002-02-20 20:23:45|mashbill|Fav .357 Reloads for 4" BBL?|
Have any of you developed any favorite reloads to be used in a 4"
revolver? Most of the data I am finding is for much longer barrel
lengths.

Thanks,

MashBill
| 46|45|2002-02-21 18:42:41|tobythelab|Re: Fav .357 Reloads for 4" BBL?|
I just bought a 4" GP100 SS as a backwoods / general purpose gun.
Since I may need to shoot critters of any size with it, I intend to
experiment with some heavy loads. My philosphy in shorter bbl guns
of any caliber is as follows: since you won't ever get the maximum
advertised velocities from any load, you should instead use the
heaviest available bullet and get the best velocity you can. I
intend to try 180 grain LBT hard cast lead flat nose bullets, from
14.5 - ??? grains of H-110, and a heavy heavy crimp using the Lee
factory crimp die. These are MAX loads and over much published data -
Speer publishes some of the heaviest loads I have seen for the .357.

The heavy bullet and tight crimp will allow more of the powder to
burn before exiting the chamber, resulting in a better overall burn
and better muzzle velocities. This also creates high pressure, so
you need to work up carefully and make sure you have a strong gun to
begin with. K frame S&W are not strong guns - L frames are OK, SA
Rugers are best and GP100s are very strong for DA. My objective is
to get 1150 - 1200 fps with the 180 gr hard cast bullet - that will
go through and through almost anything, and deep into anything really
big.

Be aware that lower velocities from a 4" bbl may prevent most hollow
points from expanding, so if you want to use HP bullets then you
should use a lighter 125 - 158 gr bullet and try to keep velocities
up. I have heard that Remington 180 gr SJHP and Nosler 180 gr HP
will expand at lower velocities but have not tested. Also remember
that the HP will be a longer bullet for same weight vs. flat nose
lead, so the HP loads will be seated deeper for same COL and may not
allow same powder charges as the flat nose lead seated at max COL. A
JSP may be a good idea but I haven't looked for a good 180 gr JSP yet.

It will be several weeks before I get actual test data but I will
gladly post here FYI. Good Luck and have fun!

| 47|35|2002-06-06 15:57:32|wolfscout1|Re: Attention corserine!|
I've got a Winchester 94 in .357 that I use to hunt deer. I have
taken deer at 150 yards +- a few at different times. It's plenty
accurate and strong enough. I've been thinking of scoping a longer
barreled revovler and trying that. There are some around here who
long range pistol hunt for deer. Really like this list. But it's
some slow ain't it.

| 48|48|2002-06-17 03:30:56|williamfriggle@webtv.net|Smith and Wesson 686|
Hello,
I just brought home a Smith 686 with a 6" barrel. It is used, I don't
know how old it is but want to find out. It has the Pachmayr
Presentation grip that I really don't like. I will look for Hogue grips
for it. It is a square but. One question I have is I thought Smith used
coil springs in the revolvers. I was surprised when I took the grip off
to clean it up and see a leaf spring. Didn't they switch to coil
springs? When did they if they did? Where can I find out a manufacturing
date for this gun? Any input on this gun?

Thanks,

Bill
(Make mine a revolver)
| 49|48|2002-06-17 19:11:37|tobythelab|Re: Smith and Wesson 686|
686 is an "L" frame gun. K,L, and N frames all use leaf springs -
only the smaller "J" frame guns use coils that I know of. Call S&W
and they will probably tell you the mfg date from your S/N.

| 50|48|2002-06-17 19:17:13|wolfscout1|Re: Smith and Wesson 686|
Try this S&W site http://www.smith-wessonforum.com

| 51|48|2002-06-18 05:54:53|williamfriggle@webtv.net|Re: Smith and Wesson 686|
Thanks for the response. I have only had J frame guns from Smith. I will
cll them and see if they will give me a date. What grips would you
recommend for it?

Bill
(Make mine a revolver)

If you love revolvers, this is the grroup for you.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wheelgun/
| 52|52|2002-08-14 07:46:16|williamfriggle@webtv.net|What's new?|
Hi all,
It has been very quite here lately. Has anybody gotten any new toys
lately.Been shooting? I got a 1982 S & W 686 w/ 6" barrel. Going
thursday to shoot it for the first time. I am also going to go to the
gun shop and see about aking a deal for a GP100. Either a 3" or a 4". I
have been carrying my SP101 the most here of late. Just love that little
gun.

Happy shooting,

Bill
(Make mine a revolver)

If you love revolvers, this is the grroup for you.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Wheelgun/
| 53|53|2002-09-16 18:54:35|osok20022002|357 hunting info needed|
I'm looking to use my 357mag for huntingthis season, mostly
whitetails. I have a Dan wesson with an 8"barrel, and soon to have a
scope. Any one out there that can give me how far this round will be
effective on the whitetails? And any recomnedations on scope rings?
| 54|53|2002-09-16 23:35:45|Brian Robins|Re: 357 hunting info needed|
I've used Federal 180gr sp and Corbon 150gr bonded
core for factory loads with great success. I try to
stay within about 60 yrds. I bought my scope and rings
(Busnell 2x) used and together, so I'm not sure what
the manuf. of the rings were. They are normal weaver
style. I've never had them shoot loose. But, I guess
that isn't much help if I don't know who made them.
Thanks,
Brian
--- osok20022002 <stevestall@... __________________________________________________
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| 55|53|2002-09-17 12:34:49|Robert Campbell|Re: 357 hunting info needed|
How big are the whitetails in your area? There's a lot
of difference between the small deer found in parts of
Texas and the big 250-300 bucks you might find in the
northern states.

Bob Campbell

--- osok20022002 <stevestall@...

mostly and soon to have a round will be scope rings? 357_MAGNUM-unsubscribe@egroups.com http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/" of Service __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! News - Today's headlines http://news.yahoo.com
| 56|56|2002-10-04 05:16:34|lucky1s@mcmsys.com|Howdy|Being new to the group just wanted to say hi. I usualy lurk around most of the time and don't request the e-mail be sent to me. But I log on every couple of days and check out the traffic from the "my groups" link on YaHoo. Anyhoot, anybody got any impressions with the Winchester Legacy in 357 magnum? Lucky| 57|56|2002-11-22 20:26:00|Larry Fulmer|Re: Howdy|--- In 357_MAGNUM@y..., lucky1s@m... wrote: most of the time and don't request the e-mail be sent to me. But I log on every couple of days and check out the traffic from the "my groups" link on YaHoo. Anyhoot, anybody got any impressions with the Winchester Legacy in 357 magnum? Lucky MY wife has the winchester in .357 model 94 youth so it'd have shorter barrel. She loves it. I've shot it a few times. It's a smooth handling gun once the feed ramp is broken in some.| 58|58|2003-02-06 04:49:14|Larry Fulmer|Looking at getting another Taurus.|I've got a 4" Model 608. I like it a lot. I'm thinking of getting a 6" so I can put a scope on it. Taurus only makes the scope mount for the 6 & 8inchers. Any commments?| 59|59|2003-02-06 04:49:17|Mr X |german guy wnat this gun...|who know contact and adresses?| 60|60|2003-02-20 05:56:26|Bettina Balfour |Colt Pyton Elite with 6 inch barrel|Greetings all, I am consodering the purchase of the Colt Python Elite(1150.00 listed price) from colt. I have been told by many that ,although there are more expensive weapons, that the Python is a superb firearm. Am most interested the comments of others. The weapon looks classic and built like a tank. I would be firing a lot of 357 mag. I have been told that it is practically hand made especially the fitting of the forcing cone. I intend to fire it without getting it compensated. I have heard that the balance and lack of recoil, I also shoot 230 grain 45 hardball for my carry piece, is wonderful. The only add on might be pachmeyer rubberized grips if anyone think they would be a good add on. Thanks in advance for your comments on my message.| 61|60|2003-02-20 13:34:54|Brian Robins|Re: Colt Pyton Elite with 6 inch barrel|I had a Python with a 8" Silhouette barrel, It was smooth. Hardly any felt recoil. But, I was told that Python are not made for constant full power 357's. Their lock work is rather delicate and would wear out quickly with constant 357's. They are beautiful guns though. I would ask them about durability. Brian --- "Bettina Balfour <wife2abhub@... <wife2abhub@... __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/| 62|58|2003-02-23 07:05:44|mckannick |Re: Looking at getting another Taurus.|--- In 357_MAGNUM@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Fulmer" this one, but has the adjustabe rear sight. Go for it!| 63|63|2003-06-27 14:35:06|Ivar N. Marohombsar|hello ! anybody home ?| anyone here ? | 64|63|2003-06-27 23:46:55|glnelson|Re: hello ! anybody home ?|--- In 357_MAGNUM@yahoogroups.com, "Ivar N. Marohombsar" I rarely see new messages here, but I do monitor the group daily hoping for interesting info or insight. Greg| 65|31|2003-07-01 01:44:52|Stewart|Re: .357Mag in under-lever actioned carbine for foxes?|Have you tried: 110 grain JHP H-110 check the book (estimated 1700 mv) WSMP Taper Crimp I don't have my ballistic charts with me but I think the charge is near 17 grains of H-110 or you can find the corresponding load for Win 296. You should get a good pop out of this one. Stew | 66|63|2003-07-01 01:46:42|Ivar N. Marohombsar|Re: hello ! anybody home ?|Hello Greg ! I saw your mailing list while surfing the net and I thought to give this list a try. Most firearm related mailing lists are for 1911s and this is the first list Ive seen dedicated to revolvers, specifically for the 357 Magnum. It seems that we are not getting much traffic. Six gunners are getting scarce...hehehe Ivar| 67|63|2003-09-11 04:03:28|Larry Fulmer|Re: hello ! anybody home ?|--- In 357_MAGNUM@yahoogroups.com, "Ivar N. Marohombsar" first list Ive seen dedicated to revolvers, specifically for the 357 Magnum. getting scarce...hehehe I wouldn't say they're scarce. They mostly just don't like Yahoo's groups message board.| 68|68|2003-12-12 21:37:41|kbc556|New Group Member|I just joined the group and I am looking forward to hearing from and sharing with others thoughts and facts about the .357 Magnum cartridge and weapons. I reload for and shoot (6) .357's of my own, but never have time to reload or shoot as much as I would like too. I really like to cast and shoot my own bullets. I try to have a cast load for each of the weapons that I own that will keep them in the X ring. I would have to say that I have had some very good experiences with cast bullet shooting. I am currently serving on active duty with the Army here in the states. kbc556| 69|68|2003-12-12 22:31:57|Mark Alonzo|Re: New Group Member|I to load many cast bullets for my .357 (a Taurus model 66, old model 6 shot), but I don't cast my own bullets, I use off the shelf hard cast bullets from a local vendor. My favorite load consist of 5.8 grains of Hodgen Universal Clays, standard primer, and 158 grain LSW. I have found this load to be very accurate in my firearm. As always check your loading data and work it up from the starting load to find out what is safe an works good in your gun. Happy reloading/shooting kbc556 <kbc556@... I just joined the group and I am looking forward to hearing from and sharing with others thoughts and facts about the .357 Magnum --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 70|68|2003-12-13 02:19:45|Keith Cartwright|Re: New Group Member|Thanks Mark. I am going to build a file with all of the load data that I get back from the group. It might be awhile before I can start to put things together, but it sure will be fun when I do. kbc556 Mark Alonzo <marktalonzo@... I to load many cast bullets for my .357 (a Taurus model 66, old model 6 shot), but I don't cast my own bullets, I use off the shelf hard cast bullets from a local vendor. My favorite load consist of 5.8 grains of Hodgen Universal Clays, standard primer, and 158 grain LSW. I have found this load to be very accurate in my firearm. As always check your loading data and work it up from the starting load to find out what is safe an works good in your gun. Happy reloading/shooting kbc556 <kbc556@... I just joined the group and I am looking forward to hearing from and sharing with others thoughts and facts about the .357 Magnum --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: 357_MAGNUM-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 71|71|2004-01-04 04:18:40|marktalonzo|My new group|http://groups.yahoo.com/group/west_coast_shooting| 72|72|2004-06-12 14:27:23|Bill Friggle|No moderater for one week|Hello all, I am leaving for vacation. So for the next week, we will have no moderater.So post by the newer members that are moderated will not be approved till next Sunday. Sorry for the delay. Bill List owner/moderater| 73|73|2004-12-22 15:40:18|tsanders12|357 load info?|Can anyone share any info on loads (factory or reload) for deer and black bear at short ranges (<100yd)? If using a hard cast bullet, could you also let me know ehre to get them if I don't cast my own? I'll be using a Marlin 1894CS. Thanks, Tim| 74|74|2004-12-27 22:57:57|WB|Re: Digest Number 40|Sorry for the late reply. For factory ammo, try one of the 180 HP gr loads by several of the major ammo makers (Hornady, Winchester, etc.). These can be found mail order, online, or in some of the larger gun shops in your area (not you average discount / sporting goods store stock item). For hard cast hand loads I would suggest something of similar weight with gas checks. Any cast load without the gas checks will suffer in velocity and accuracy at the loadings / pressure / velocity required for a successful hunt, IMHO that is. Hand loads duplicating the factory 180 gr HP ammo with H-110 powder (or similar) should work fine as well. | 75|75|2005-10-03 11:09:49|chipmunro|new guy in here .|You guys haven't had a posting for a while . I'm thinking of getting a s&w m 619 ,can anyone tell me which bullet type had the closest P.O.I. to the P.O.A. with this fixed sight gun? I inherited some 125 gr. J.H.P. and it would swing me in faver of this gun if they were right on or close to it.| 76|75|2005-10-03 16:44:36|IvAr MaRoHoMbSaR|Re: new guy in here .|im not familiar with P.O.I or P.O.A...what do they stand for ------------------------------ "Fear leads to uncertainty, uncertainty leads to bugs, bugs leads to suffering, suffering leads to hate...." - Darth Babur (SW:Code Wars) | 77|75|2005-10-03 16:57:33|William Friggle|Re: new guy in here .|Point of impact. Point of aim. I think. | 78|75|2005-10-04 17:12:51|IvAr MaRoHoMbSaR|Re: new guy in here .|IMHO, in a CQB...POI and POA hardly matters... JHPs are good enough to halt agression and should get you in good standing should somebody file manslaughter...hehehehehe a properly loaded 357 magnum round should give you a flat trajectory longer than a 38 SPL..so I think there is no need to fuss about POI and POA ------------------------------ "Fear leads to uncertainty, uncertainty leads to bugs, bugs leads to suffering, suffering leads to hate...." - Darth Babur (SW:Code Wars) | 79|75|2005-10-04 17:22:39|Lucas Munro|Re: new guy in here .|I'm sorry , P.O.I. is point of impact and P.O.A. point of aim . That explains why I've got no answer back , maybe . IvAr MaRoHoMbSaR <ivarm@... ------------------------------ "Fear leads to uncertainty, uncertainty leads to bugs, bugs leads to suffering, suffering leads to hate...." - Darth Babur (SW:Code Wars) | 80|75|2006-04-26 21:47:49|xstcop|Re: new guy in here .|You guys haven't had a posting for a while. I'm thinking of getting a s&w m 619, can anyone tell me which bullet type had the closest P.O.I. to the P.O.A. with this fixed sight gun? I inherited some 125 gr. J.H.P. and it would swing me in faver of this gun if they were right on or close to it. Hey there New Guy, and welcome to our board: 1st: When you get that 619, you will have in your hands one of the best personal defense handguns that is around. I personally like the way a Colt .357 turns and shoots V. the S&W's, but I don't feel under gunned when I have a Smith .357 on me rather that a Colt .357. Hey - some guys like Fords and some like Dodges. Both will get to the job! 2nd: All of the modern .357 Smiths were regulated to POA at 25 yards with a 158 gr bullet. When you drop the hammer on the 125 gr JHP's you have, you will find that they print just a bit high at 25 yards. This is not enought to be bothersome at the normal gunfight distance (7-20 feet), and in fact will be a help when you shoot at night. During night firing, the vast majority of shooters will shoot low to the target, so a bullet that hits high to the target is a good thing !! Enjoy you new gun, get licensed for CC if your state will allow it, and spend at least 1 hour and 50 rounds per week with your 619 until you know it like you do your pocket. Never quit and never become lunch !| 82|75|2007-09-15 17:05:11|2guntom|Re: new guy in here .|More than likely it is designed with a 158gr bullet in mind. Trying to get POA and POI congruent can be quite entertaining at times... I've just about elimated all fixed sight guns from my collection... Back when the original post was written, the 620 (IIRC) was the same gun but had adjustable sights. It was the 7-shot K-frame replacement for the 66. But since S&W quit making 357 Magnum K-frames, as with many other mistakes they are making, and since this original post is a couple years old, I'm curious what you bought. 2guntom | 83|83|2007-09-15 17:06:06|2guntom|S&W686SSR|I don't like what S&W has done/is doing to their new revolvers at all, but this looks like a very solid concept S&W686SSR or http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=53929&langId=-1&isFirearm=Y "And the prayer of faith shall save the sick and the Lord shall raise him up..." This week's featured group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/2guntom/ Group Master List http://www.2guntom.com/home/groups.html --------------------------------- Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 84|83|2007-09-15 18:41:53|Bill|Re: S&W686SSR|I am curious. What don't you like about that gun you linked? Looks good to me. Bill _____ From: 357_MAGNUM@yahoogroups.com [mailto:357_MAGNUM@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 2guntom Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 10:19 AM To: 357_MAGNUM@yahoogroups.com Subject: [357_MAGNUM] S&W686SSR I don't like what S&W has done/is doing to their new revolvers at all, but this looks like a very solid concept S&W686SSR or http://www.smith- gId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=53929&langId=-1&isFirearm=Y wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId= 10001&productId=53929&langId=-1&isFirearm=Y "And the prayer of faith shall save the sick and the Lord shall raise him up..." This week's featured group http://groups. Group Master List http://www.2guntom. --------------------------------- Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 85|83|2007-09-15 20:52:21|2guntom|Re: S&W686SSR|That's a case of "druthers". The new S&W's I've owned are pitiful. The new hammer, spurs in particular, don't have the feel of the old ones; these new spurs on the new hammers are accomodating for that silly integral lock mechanism. The quality they display in their shipped products are unexcusable. A $650 gun should have had the attention paid to it in assembly to notice that the red insert in the front sight had flash hanging over that needed to be trimmed/dressed (the gun was unusable out of the box). Their over the phone customer service department needs to be fired... I'll stop here by saying that guns that cost that much should indeed possess the quality that demands such a price. When "Kate" in customer service leaves, and the parts department ceases to be friendly and helpful, I will wash my hands of S&W altogether. These pentup feelings are from $1200 worth of S&W revolvers purchased this year- one unusable from the box, the other breaking after 55 rounds. The original post was a sigh. I was looking for the 619 and 620 for the other post, realized that S&W had discontinued 357 K-frames, and stumbled across the SSR. Neat concept for sure if S&W would get it together. 2gun S&W as a Bill me. Bill _____ From: 357_MAGNUM@yahoogroups.com [mailto:357_MAGNUM@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 2guntom Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2007 10:19 AM To: 357_MAGNUM@yahoogroups.com Subject: [357_MAGNUM] S&W686SSR I don't like what S&W has done/is doing to their new revolvers at all, but this looks like a very solid concept S&W686SSR or http://www.smith- gId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=53929&langId=-1&isFirearm=Y wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId= 10001&productId=53929&langId=-1&isFirearm=Y "And the prayer of faith shall save the sick and the Lord shall raise him up..." This week's featured group http://groups. yahoo.com/group/2guntom/ Group Master List http://www.2guntom. com/home/groups.html --------------------------------- Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Links "And the prayer of faith shall save the sick and the Lord shall raise him up..." This week's featured group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/2guntom/ Group Master List http://www.2guntom.com/home/groups.html --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 86|86|2007-09-16 05:08:31|2guntom|Handloads?|I've been playing with some different handloads trying to find good, accurate loads for 4" barrels in the 12 - 50 yard range. Using the Lee tumble lube version of their 148gr DEWC, cast from wheel weights and recovered lead from previous shooting sessions, lubed with parafin and t-bowl rings/seals, and sized to .357- Lee 148gr TLWC 6.5gr HS-6 Starline 357 brass cases WSPM That is a load I had to calculate myself from the data that Hodgdon offers for 148 & 158gr cast in 38 and 158gr in 357 mag. It shot extremely well in my L-frame S&W 686 4" and my J-frame S&W 60 3". I've got 2 loads I need to re-shoot in that 3" 60; I'm not sure how far the sights will adjust since the front sight is the wrong one (the things people do to guns before you trade with them). The HS-6 load above is a solid load, but I wanted something light for the little 60. This load shot one ragged hole groups at 13 yards through a 2-1/2" K-frame S&W 19. It didn't do bad out of the 60, but it was printing low, possibly beyond the range of adjustment in the sights. Lee 148gr TLWC 3.8gr Bullseye Starline 357 brass cases WSPM "And the prayer of faith shall save the sick and the Lord shall raise him up..." This week's featured group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/2guntom/ Group Master List http://www.2guntom.com/home/groups.html --------------------------------- Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 87|83|2007-09-16 14:38:37|Bill|Re: S&W686SSR|Interesting. I haven't been into guns for a while because of lack of funds. I always liked S&W revolvers. But I had a very bad experience with them on a semi auto. I won't go into details. To long. But I sent it back and requested a test target of repaired gun. Well I got it back with a new barrel and a test target. But I showed the target to a lot of different people and asked what they thought of it. I did not say what I was suspicious of till after they remarked. And every one said the same thing. The target looked like someone took a pencil and poked a bunch of holes in it. If I had the time I would have driven up to the factory and found the guy that "did" that test target and say do it in front of me. I want to see you shoot a pattern like that with this gun. But I didn't have the time. That could be why I became a Ruger nut. Bill _____ <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=2268175/grpspId=1705069100/msgId =85/stime=1189882343/nc1=4767085/nc2=3848607/nc3=4617365 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 88|83|2007-09-17 15:53:48|2guntom|Re: S&W686SSR|Lack of funds? Yep, know that I do. Any gun that was a good deal, I always bought it if I could. That caused me to have more guns than I could store in my safe, hang on the wall in racks, etc. After side by side shooting, I've found what works for my needs (needs outrule wants). When I come across a good deal, I can sell a couple, have cash, and buy the new one (new to me). The 2 problem guns were different. The brand new gun was a 5" model 60. That is a neat concept, having a 5-shot J-frame, 357 Magnum, 5" barrel, and NO full underlug. I had high hopes. With modest loads, it was going to be a sure cure for vermin, and take rabbits and other small game too. After dealing with S&W, I sold it without ever chambering a round. The 3" model 60 was acquired in trade, having less than 50 rounds run through it. I fired it 5 times and the pivot pin sheared off from the hand. I was able to shame them into sending me a new hand for free. It ain't just S&W; it's the world we live in. There is no time to do anything, but attempt to get a little profit. The companies have to appease the shareholders; that's priority one. The employees and the customers don't matter. It doesn't matter if it's a gun, a box of crackers, or a car, it's all the same. Ruger has it's pros and cons. I would really like to have a 6" Security - 6. I'd prefer it over the 6" GP100, because the Security - 6 does not have an underlug, the GP100 has a FULL underlug. I've found myself many times around the farm trying to do one-handed shots on small vermin, but miss because I was fighting too hard to keep the weight of the muzzle up; the other hand was occupied with a flashlight, dog leash, or whatever. (This is why I bought the 5" 60 and am still terribly disappointed) Ruger's manufacturing process involves the cylinder's chambers being cut at the same time; that means 6 reamers simultaneously. As tools wear they must be resharpened, hence, not all the reamers and subsequent chambers may be congruent. I had a 6-1/2" Blackhawk that was the perfect example. With jacketed ammo, it would blow your mind just how accurate it was out to 100 yards with the factory sights. But as time went on I switched to lead bullets, then bullets of my own casting. 3 shots would cloverleaf at the bull with the other three in the vaccinity like 3 moons orbiting a planet. The moral of the story was that three chamber throats were the correct diameter, 3 were not. Barrel leading was a real problem too. With the acquisition of any Ruger, always slug the bore and all the throats if you intend to shoot lead. The other issue is the Blackhawks and the basepins jumping. If you buy one and don't know to watch for it, it can scare you or make you mad. Although I've never heard of anyone getting hurt, when the cylinder loses it's axis, only bad things will proceed. Rugers are all very meaty. Ignorance, stupidity, and carelessness have never harmed a Ruger that I am aware of. If you are starting out in reloading, I recommend you shoot your first 1000 reloads in a Ruger. They can withstand your oops's and you will live to learn from them. If you know of Ruger's shortcoming and watch for them, you can thoroughly enjoy their ruggedness! Taurus? I'm mixed in my thoughts. They are affordable, so you have to scrutinize them but be forgiving in that you don't pay as much. The latest Taurus offerings from recent manufacturing runs are suffering from the same problem- grinding compund/grit that was never cleaned off or out of the guns. So all screws and threads are subject to grit. This includes the new 2-piece barrels (ouch!). They do have a lifetime warranty, it just takes a lot of patience from the consumer. Rossi revolvers are all made by Taurus now. For some reason the revolvers with Rossi on them seem to be better quality and feel than the Taurus. I don't know why, but it's been that way with every one I've ever handled, some side by side with a Taurus. For the record I've never owned a Rossi. Charter Arms? Very carefully inspect these before you buy one. I've handled some that were smooth, and other that needed to go back to the factory. They don't cost much so take the time to look it over before you buy. Since MKS (makers of Hi-Point) has bought Charter Arms, I don't know if the quality will remain the same or improve. Basically, any gun purchase requires homework. Determine what you are will to spend or can afford, this will have bearing on what brand, familarize yourself with the brand name and its individual quirks, find the best price, etc. 2gun Bill <playguitar4HIM@... Interesting. I haven't been into guns for a while because of lack of funds. I always liked S&W revolvers. But I had a very bad experience with them on a semi auto. I won't go into details. To long. But I sent it back and requested a test target of repaired gun. Well I got it back with a new barrel and a test target. But I showed the target to a lot of different people and asked what they thought of it. I did not say what I was suspicious of till after they remarked. And every one said the same thing. The target looked like someone took a pencil and poked a bunch of holes in it. If I had the time I would have driven up to the factory and found the guy that "did" that test target and say do it in front of me. I want to see you shoot a pattern like that with this gun. But I didn't have the time. That could be why I became a Ruger nut. Bill "And the prayer of faith shall save the sick and the Lord shall raise him up..." This week's featured group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/2guntom/ Group Master List http://www.2guntom.com/home/groups.html --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 89|86|2007-11-04 23:07:58|2guntom|Handloads?|I was looking through my notes and found this one. I had previously done a load development in my 4" S&W 686 and arrived where I did. The target had the holes all clustered tightly at the bull. I loaded some more and found that it seemed to group tight and to POA in my 2-1/2" 19 and 3" 60. I'm thinking this may be my "universal" load in that if I don't have anything else, this one will definately work. I'll do some penetration tests soon too. R-P brass cases Lee TL 148gr DEWC lubed with LLA CCI 500 primers (small pistol, not magnum) 6.2gr Unique crimped in the last tumble lube groove | 90|90|2008-03-12 19:16:36|sekoutdoors|New guy!|Hello all. I love the 357! I have a model 29 Highway Patrolman N frame. I am also just getting into reloading. Would love to know a few of the recipes you all use for plinking, hunting, and self defense. Joe| 91|90|2008-03-12 20:09:34|Wouter|Re: New guy!|Hi Joe Can't help you much, because the powder we get this side of the pond is different. But I push the 125gr XTP at 1390 fps out of a 3" barrel (Taurus) using 10 grains of MP200 -- they tell me it's close to Unique. 0.9" 10 meter 6 shot group off a rest. I've tried half a grain more but the group almost doubles. I also stick a .95 disk's worth (I think it's around 12 grains) of S265 (again, they tell me it's close to 4227) behind a 190 grain plain base cast lead bullet in my Astra, does well on the silhouette chickens and pigs but doesn't quite take the rams down -- have bought me a 357 Maximum Dan Wesson. Have also bought a Rossi SRC, but like with the Dan Wesson I have to go through a licence procedure which will take a year if I'm lucky. Anywayz. W| 92|90|2008-03-13 01:25:27|tsanders12|Re: New guy!|Welcome to the group. Not a lot of activity here, but I hope you will get some replies. I can offer the following loads that have worked for me. Of course, (legal crap disclaimer) ALWAYS check a loading manual, and start 10% lower than loads listed, work up gradually. That said here are some loads: In mY Taurus (6" bbl) 12.9 grain of H110, CCI 550 primer, Overall length 1.57" pushing a Hornady 180 JTC-SIL gave 0.64" 3 shot groups at 25 yards. Next 2 shots opened group up slightly. VERY accurate. This is a pretty heavy load, good maybe for silhouette or ?? 180 LSWC with 12.0 grains H110,Cartridge overall length of 1.606", CCI 500 primers, gave 2.1" groups. Nice plinking load, but still fairly powerful. For comparison, I got 2.59" with Remington UMC 125 JSP. You might try some lighter loads with Unique etc, and 158 LSWC for plinking. I don't have any worked up, any loading manual could give you a starting point. Good Shooting, -Tim --- In 357_MAGNUM@yahoogroups.com, "sekoutdoors" defense. | 93|93|2008-03-20 18:00:37|winfried hundt|Hi all, I am new here, what else is new?|Hi, I have been shooting and carrying a 357 in on or other form since 1968. I have written a book about the subject of shooting, published a number of articles and a newsletter. I am sad to see, that revolvers are somewhat in a decline. If we consider, that there are incidents that 17 rounds were fired in anger with a Glock and all 17 missed, then there is something wrong with the present method of practical shooting. The 41 is not common, the .44 has too much penetration for self-defense (with standard ammo), but the .357 with its variety of loads is just right for self-defense. Furthermore, no matter what anybody says, the fastest first shot (for self-defense at close distance) can only be fired with a DA revolver. I am not interested in any form of competition or hunting, but only in the practical aspect for which weapons were designed. How can I post pics of the effect of .357 here? Regards WAH| 94|93|2008-03-22 03:20:26|Bill Friggle|Re: Hi all, I am new here, what else is new?|Go to the photo's section of our web[age and you can download them there. They are moderated. Once you down load them They will inform me that they are there and I can go approve them. Bill _____ From: 357_MAGNUM@yahoogroups.com [mailto:357_MAGNUM@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of winfried hundt Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 8:46 AM To: 357_MAGNUM@yahoogroups.com Subject: [357_MAGNUM] Hi all, I am new here, what else is new? Hi, I have been shooting and carrying a 357 in on or other form since 1968. I have written a book about the subject of shooting, published a number of articles and a newsletter. I am sad to see, that revolvers are somewhat in a decline. If we consider, that there are incidents that 17 rounds were fired in anger with a Glock and all 17 missed, then there is something wrong with the present method of practical shooting. The 41 is not common, the .44 has too much penetration for self-defense (with standard ammo), but the .357 with its variety of loads is just right for self-defense. Furthermore, no matter what anybody says, the fastest first shot (for self-defense at close distance) can only be fired with a DA revolver. I am not interested in any form of competition or hunting, but only in the practical aspect for which weapons were designed. How can I post pics of the effect of .357 here? Regards WAH [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 95|93|2008-03-22 03:24:44|Bill Friggle|Re: Hi all, I am new here, what else is new?|I bought 3 semi auto's recently. But I really wanted to get back to revolvers. So I picked up a Taurus 850. Not a 357, but I really like it. I might sell one of the semi's to get another. Not sure yet. But I am going to get another revolver. I really prefer them over semi's. Not sure which one I will get though. Thinking a 4" 357. Since I have a nice snubbie now. To me there isn't a nicer looking gun than a nice revolver. I wish I could buy them all. Bill _____ From: 357_MAGNUM@yahoogroups.com [mailto:357_MAGNUM@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of winfried hundt Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 8:46 AM To: 357_MAGNUM@yahoogroups.com Subject: [357_MAGNUM] Hi all, I am new here, what else is new? Hi, I have been shooting and carrying a 357 in on or other form since 1968. I have written a book about the subject of shooting, published a number of articles and a newsletter. I am sad to see, that revolvers are somewhat in a decline. If we consider, that there are incidents that 17 rounds were fired in anger with a Glock and all 17 missed, then there is something wrong with the present method of practical shooting. The 41 is not common, the .44 has too much penetration for self-defense (with standard ammo), but the .357 with its variety of loads is just right for self-defense. Furthermore, no matter what anybody says, the fastest first shot (for self-defense at close distance) can only be fired with a DA revolver. I am not interested in any form of competition or hunting, but only in the practical aspect for which weapons were designed. How can I post pics of the effect of .357 here? Regards WAH [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 96|90|2008-10-08 18:11:57|hawgwrench1|Re: New guy!|I'm new to this group too, but I think the Model 28 is the Highway Patrolman. The Model 29 is a .44 Magnum. Jeff --- In 357_MAGNUM@yahoogroups.com, "sekoutdoors" defense. | 97|97|2009-03-23 01:12:16|Bill Friggle|I forgot|Hi all, Sorry I have not been around lately. I totally forgot about changing my yahoo account email address to my new one. And I admit, I totally forgot about all my groups. OOoops. I will be around from now on. I am sure no one missed me at all anyways. I feel really bad about this. But I just blame it on my pain medications. Please forgive me. Bill Owner/ Moderator <http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=_undefined _____ Express yourself with over 10,000 FREE Email Smileys - click here! <http://www.smileycentral.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 98|97|2009-03-23 15:54:38|2guntom|Re: I forgot|Of course we missed you! Welcome back. Bill Friggle <bjf@... Hi all, Sorry I have not been around lately. I totally forgot about changing my yahoo account email address to my new one. And I admit, I totally forgot about all my groups. OOoops. I will be around from now on. I am sure no one missed me at all anyways. I feel really bad about this. But I just blame it on my pain medications. Please forgive me. Bill Owner/ Moderator Pimp My Wheelchair _____ Express yourself with over 10,000 FREE Email Smileys - click here! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links "And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled for all these things must come to pass but the end is not yet.. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come " Matthew 24:6&14 The Pocket Testament League http://www.pocketpower.org/?sponsorcd=265354 Join The League Now! http://www.pocketpower.org/code/signup.php?promo=bannerclick&sponsorcd=265354 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 99|97|2009-04-26 03:34:09|Wouter|Re: I forgot|Hi Bill Welcome back to your own group :-) It's been very quiet, I think everyone's hunting wabbits. Wouter in South Africa, who shoots 180 grain cast at silhouettes and has fortunately not had to use his 125 grain XTP load at 1400 fps on anything other than paper yet.| 100|100|2009-09-22 22:10:37|Bill Friggle|AN ACTUAL CRAIG'S LIST PERSONALS AD|AN ACTUAL CRAIG'S LIST PERSONALS AD ã€€ To the Guy Who Tried to Mug Me in Downtown Savannah night before last. Date: 2009-05-27, 1:43 a.m. E.S.T. I was the guy wearing the black Burberry jacket that you demanded that I hand over, shortly after you pulled the knife on me and my girlfriend, threatening our lives. You also asked for my girlfriend's purse and earrings. I can only hope that you somehow come across this rather important message. First, I'd like to apologize for your embarrassment; I didn't expect you to actually crap in your pants when I drew my pistol after you took my jacket. The evening was not that cold, and I was wearing the jacket for a reason. My girlfriend had just bought me that Kimber Model 1911 .45 A CP pistol for my birthday, and we had picked up a shoulder holster for it that very evening. Obviously you agree that it is a very intimidating weapon when pointed at your head ... isn't it?! I know it probably wasn't fun walking back to wherever you'd come from with that brown sludge in your pants. I'm sure it was even worse walking bare-footed since I made you leave your shoes, cell phone, and wallet with me. [That prevented you from calling or running to your buddies to come help mug us again]. After I called your mother, or "Momma" as you had her listed in your cell, I explained the entire episode of what you'd done. Then I went and filled up my gas tank as well as those of four other people in the gas station, -- on your credit card. The guy with the big motor home took 150 gallons and was extremely grateful! I gave your shoes to a homeless guy outside Vinnie Van Go Go's, along with all the cash in your wallet. [That made his day! I then threw your wallet into the big pink "pimp mobile" that was parked at the curb ... after I broke the windshield and side window and keyed the entire driver's side of the car. Later, I called a bunch of phone sex numbers from your cell phone. Ma Bell just now shut down the line, although I only used the phone for a little over a day now, so what's going on with that? Earlier, I managed to get in two threatening phone calls to the DA's office and one to the FBI, while mentioning President Obama as my possible target. The FBI guy seemed really intense and we had a nice long chat (I guess while he traced your number etc.). In a way, perhaps I should apologize for not killing you ... but I feel this type of retribution is a far more appropriate punishment for your threatened crime. I wish you well as you try to sort through some of these rather immediate pressing issues, and can only hope that you have the opportunity to reflect upon, and perhaps reconsider, the career path you've chosen to pursue in life. Remember, next time you might not be so lucky. Have a good day! Thoughtfully yours, Alex [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 101|101|2010-03-05 16:22:15|icccmdave1@netzero.com|357 smith and wesson|Howdy, I have a 357 mag 6 shot with a 4 inch barrel - 686 frame. A beautiful piece. R. David Hanthorn ____________________________________________________________ Diet Help Reach your goals of being healthier and happier. Click here for diet tips and solutions. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/c?cp=qZZ2Dvie43Z9bLoq5JQLAAAAJ1FE_8GLAmjkd4pN5BKDH5SzAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYQAAAAAA=| 102|101|2010-03-28 23:48:39|Ken Meinken|Re: 357 smith and wesson|Yes, very nice guns. Originally I had a 6" 686 and swapped it for a 4". Better balance, IMO. I also believe that mine had a trigger job done on it, it is an extremely nice trigger, significantly better than my 19 or 629. Ken | 103|73|2010-05-03 20:58:43|elmcclur|Re: 357 load info?|Tim, the Lyman cast loading manual lists loads. I use wheelweights that are water quenched and alox lubed. In my Dan Wesson revolver it is the maximum load that Lyman lists. Your mileage may vary. These bullets are unsized as they shot as cast. Lyman cast bullet handbook is great for working up loads. take care, r1kk1 | 104|30|2010-05-04 01:05:55|elmcclur|Re: reloading a 357|one way to figure how much crimp is needed is to measure 6 rounds for cartridge overall length. Write this down and load them in the revolver in order. Fire one and measure the rest. Is the overall length changing? If so, more crimp is needed. Some powders need a heavy crimp to perform well. A heavy crimp allows pressures to build to allow for more complete combustion. take care, r1kk1 | 105|53|2010-05-04 01:06:22|elmcclur|Re: 357 hunting info needed|I keep shots under a 100 yds using 180 grain cast bullets. I have taken deer out to 150 yards with the bigger brother a 357 maximum using the same cast bullets. With my Dan Wesson, I have taken Antelope, Deer, Javelina, wild dogs, etc. with it. It does not wear a scope, but can keep shots on a pie plate at 100 yards. It is my self imposed limit. When I informally shot IHMSA, it would not reliably knock the ram's down at 200 meters. I love the Dan Wesson, now I'm much older, it will wear a variable scope. take care, r1kk1 | 106|106|2010-05-27 05:05:56|Frigg|Attention PA Residents|PA voters, contact your Senators and Representatives to vote for this. http://www.wgal.com/news/23685815/detail.html?treets=lan&tid=26511893186813&tml=lan_8pm&tmi=lan_8pm_1_07000105262010&ts=H [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]| 107|107|2016-06-26 17:53:25|robby223|After the Breast Cancer https://www.gofundme.com/2bcb3b8|After the Breast Cancer Click here to support After the Breast Cancer by Brian Robins Click here to support After the Breast Cancer by Brian R... My Wife Maggie and I have won the battle in her bout with Breast Cancer. Her last PET scan was clear and they've removed the port. We can move on with a normal... View on www.gofundme.com Preview by Yahoo |


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