File: Date: 4/24/94 Start Time: 8:11:14 PM End Time: 9:02:40 PM Number of participants: 10 Participants: AFA Bard, Andrea Page, BettyK1, ChuckgH294, DTeevan, JAGarbe, MaristR, MaryEz, Robert6659, Tangaroo AFA Bard : Our topic tonight is Networking and the Apple II. Remember- a FREE HOUR is awarded at chat's end! AFA Bard : As I look around the room, I see some EXPERTS in that field already! So... my first question is... Mary-- tell us about the nuts & bolts of your wonderful network and what you've done with it lately! MaryEz : I have a Digicard network from Major Educational Resources in Baltimore, Maryland. It has two features which I LOVE! The first is the video/keyboard net. With the overlay card in my master computer, I can show output from the laser disk player or video camera on all the monitors in the room (24) plus mine. It also had a keyboard net which allow me to disable keyboards while I am teaching my lesson. I love to see the little dears' faces when they can't type anything because I have CONTROL! JAGarbe : Is a feature (video)like that really useful, Mary? MaryEz : We also have 3 macs in secretaries' offices on the net. Yes, JA, it allows the kids to see on their monitors the video output from the laser disc AFA Bard : Wow! What did it take to get your II's and Macs on the same network? What resources can they share? Welcome JoCaART! Our topic tonight is Networking and the Apple II. Remember- a FREE HOUR is awarded at chat's end! MaryEz : Or I can show the video output on the projection system and show the computer output on the monitors. That way I can show what I'm doing at my computer as well as show the output from the laser disc. Great for inservice on things like GTV. You can also have IIe's. AFA Bard : What resources can both //s and Macs share on your network, Mary? Welcome, Chuck! We're chatting about Networking and the Apple //. MaryEz : Each platform has its own sector on the fileserver so that they can use MSWorks on the Macs and Appleworks on the Apples. They don't actually share software, just the fileserver. If I had IBM's, they could share a sector also. AFA Bard : But they share printers, too, right? MaryEz : Yes, they can. I don't have it set up to do that because the fileserver is in the back room and ChuckgH294 : hi AFA-thanks-look for info on minorities who have made important scientific discoveries-notusual MaryEz : I have the printers in the lab with 4 computer connected to one printer. I didn't want to have to deal with paper jams etc. from a distance. AFA Bard : Chuck- visit the LIBRARY OF CONGRESS online and leave a message for the reference librarian. The Keyword: Library of Congress. MaristR : Who manages your network. MaryEz : Just me. AFA Bard : Mary- did you find the DigiCard setup price competitive with AppleShare or other A2-Mac network architectures? ChuckgH294 : Thanks AFA-I will give it a try AFA Bard : You're welcome, Chuck! MaryEz : Bard, I have a demo network so I haven't priced out the other possibilities. It was this or nothing! AFA Bard : Roger, JAG-- any idea how those costs compare? MaristR : We have a Novell network. AFA Bard : Any A2s on that net? Could there be? MaristR : No, just PC's and maybe some macs next year. JAGarbe : I don't network at any of my three schools. I'm looking to see if it's worth it MaristR : Jag, what type of computers do you have? MaryEz : The Digicard network is fairly invisible. I've had it 3.5 years and no problems. Good support on an 800 #. JAGarbe : Marist: did you get my response on types of computers? Strange things are happening AFA Bard : Nope-- try again JAG MaristR : No, I didn't. MaryEz : I think the number is 1-800-444-1527 but don't hold me to that. JAGarbe : I've got //e's, IBMs, and Macs MaristR : We have about 100 PC's networked. MaryEz : Do you manage it, Roger? Is it difficult to manage? JAGarbe : Is it worthwhile to network small labs of 15 computers? MaristR : We are adding a technician next year to handle the network. AFA Bard : Welcome Fred! We're discussion Networking & Apple //es. A FREE HOUR will be given away in just a few minutes! MaryEz : Just a fly by night, Bard! AFA Bard : JAG-- what do you hope to accomplish with the network- mainly printer sharing or a "diskless environment? MaristR : One problem with the network is if the serve goes down the whole network is down. serve=server JAGarbe : Well, actually, I don't see any reason to network a lab at all. Maybe you all could fill me in... AFA Bard : True in some kinds of networks, Rog. JAG- there are really about 3 reasons to network- first, you need more access to printers, but don't MaryEz : How does your network behave if there is a blip on the power, Roger? We have frequent outages for just a short period of time. MaristR : JAG, do your schools all have the same kind of computer or are they mixed. AFA Bard : have enough bucks to buy one printer for each machine. In this case, with A2 computers, it is much more cost-effective to purchase "switchboxes" that can switch printers between 2, 3, 4, or more printers. MaristR : We have a clean line for power. Ours goes down because we think there is something wrong with the Lan Spool for printing. AFA Bard : These boxes are roughly $30 each, but cable and the need for a printer interface card (except on a IIgs) drives the cost up a bit. JAGarbe : Mixed: IBM///e, Mac///e, the third //e's only AFA Bard : Are your IBMs or MACS networked at all? MaristR : It's going to be hard to network a mixed lab and get it to work right. AFA Bard : (exclusive of the A2s?) JAGarbe : No AFA Bard : I agree with Roger- especially in the IBM lab. The Mac/A2 lab has lots of low-cost options, though. MaristR : It's hard enough to network a lab that has only one type of computer. AFA Bard : With a fileserver (running AppleShare) you can network A2 and Mac machines with very little JAGarbe : Why did you all choose to network? AFA Bard : time & money. MaristR : We got tired of messy with disk and we wanted to share printers. AFA Bard : This allows access (like with Mary's network) to programs that reside on the fileserver. Things like MECC, AppleWorks, etc. MaristR : Also we can run a program very similar to the chats here over the network. Tangaroo : Howdy all!\ : ) AFA Bard : Howdy Tangaroo!! We're chattin' about Networks (especially Apple //) MaristR : We can save the chats and sort them by student or by real time then conduct class discussions over the network. AFA Bard : A FREE HOUR will rewarded at chat's end! Roger-- what utility does that? MaristR : It's a program called Daedalus. Tangaroo : Another free hour sounds great! MaristR : It's a writing program that has a conference feature. It's expensive about $5000. Tangaroo : Woah! Count my school out! AFA Bard : Ouch! It requires Novell & DOS machines, right, Roger? MaristR : True, but there might be a Mac version. AFA Bard : There IS a program for the Mac called ScreenShare that does the "screen control" and other features. MaristR : Our teachers love it. It's great for bring out the shy students. AFA Bard : A freeware app called NetChat does the online chat. Robert6659 : hi AFA Bard : Welcome Betty & Robert! We're chatting about networks and the Apple //. JAGarbe : I hate too sound so cynical, but is your school SO LARGE that it justifies a need to chat electronically BettyK1 : Hello JAGarbe : -lly? Tangaroo : Wait a minute.....you guys are talking about networks to communicate within a school?!? Robert6659 : Ahh, the Apple 2, it brings back fond memories....memories of dinosaurs and apes... MaristR : Everyone can participate on the chats, and teacher can keep track of their comments. AFA Bard : Yes, Tangaroo! Indeed, Robert-- unlike the dinosaurs, though, they're still alive and well in classrooms everywhere. MaristR : We would like to get e-mail and internet on the network. Tangaroo : We are telecommunicating with other schools and businesses........I don't know that we do any... interschool communicating! Robert6659 : you must be mistaking the Apple II for the Mac. the apple is dead....face it, so is Jimmy Hoffa!! Tangaroo : Robert.......don't be so mean! AFA Bard : Nope- but there are tons of Macs out there nowadays, too. Robert6659 : I'm afraid that the truth must be told. The Apple 2 was buried years ago, its probably fossilized by now Tangaroo : Apple II still offers a lot of great utilities that I find useful.....As a matter of fact..... MaryEz : Robert, if I didn't have my GS lab, I wouldn't have any computers at all. None have been purchased JAGarbe : ...but getting back to the topic... Tangaroo : I have put an Apple IIe card in my MAC! MaryEz : since it was built 4.5 years ago. We do wonderful things with the GS much more easily than you can with a Mac. AFA Bard : JAG-- do you use MECC software on your A2 machines? Robert6659 : Why Tangaroo, thats like putting rancid tuna in a fresh salad JAGarbe : Yes, quite often Tangaroo : I use MECC software all the time...in my MAC...if you want to know Bard! Apple IIe card makes it possible! JAGarbe : But I'm trying to get away from the "drill and practice" types of activities AFA Bard : JAG- there's a network by a company called MASTERY DEVELOPMENT (a competitor to the DigiCard folks) Robert6659 : Anyway, I have a serious question to ask about BBS's, who can help? AFA Bard : that's available for the A2. It comes PRELOADED (it's essentially a huge A2 hard drive network) with Tangaroo : There is a great Apple program that allows students to create a bulletin board of daily events! AFA Bard : ALL MECC titles and a bunch of utility programs- and AppleWorks if you have a site license. Robert6659 : PC BBS MaristR : I saw a school recently that uses VCR companion to run their daily announcements over Robert6659 : I'll be back..... MaristR : their closed circuit TV. Tangaroo : Roger, that's what I'm talking about! JAGarbe : I've seen them Bard. Do you all think it is more cost effective to pay for network setup and higher AFA Bard : Remember folks-- a FREE HOUR will be given away to a lucky AED Chat participant at chat's end! JAGarbe : price for network software that to just buy the individual software/ machine? AFA Bard : In the case of Mastery Dev. I think it's a wash. The key there is that you get the MECC stuff. If MaristR : It depends on the software and how many computers. AFA Bard : you already have it, or just don't feel that it's appropriate- I'd say go with the individual software machine. MaristR : Some software you are limited by the number of stations that can run it. You might have to buy several lab packs to be legal. MaryEz : My 5th graders (260) are all doing commercials right now using VCR Companion and Dazzle Draw with AFA Bard : Yup. Most of the A2 stuff, however, is VERY cheap. er.. inexpensive. JAGarbe : In a network situation, can you have individual groups of students working with separate AFA Bard : ;-) MaristR : Does AppleWorks still have their campus wide license? JAGarbe : software or do they all have to use the same at once? MaryEz : video camera, keyboards, CD player, and tape player connected to VCR through my computer with the Tangaroo : Love that VCR companion! AFA Bard : Yes Rog. MaryEz : overlay card. Fantastic!! AFA Bard : JAG- either way. It's generally dependent on how each software title is written. Tangaroo : My first graders are telecommunicating with other first grades around the US.......but as far as.... AFA Bard : We've found that networking makes great sense in some early elementary environments where IIes are MaristR : On the PC's some software won't run on the network unless it is a network version. AFA Bard : common-- they couldn't handle all the disk swapping. The net solved that problem. Tangaroo : networking within our school, we use a mailbox/diskette system! JAGarbe : Good point, Bard AFA Bard : A Mailbox, Tangaroo? Tangaroo : Very interesting! Yeah..........first and sixth communicate via diskettes......we type in letters on Claris and then put the diskettes in appropriate class' mailbox...then they read and respond. They use Lapis to project our letters onto TV screen.....it's kind of neat! MaristR : What do you use as a communications channel to the other schools? AFA Bard : that IS neat, Tangaroo! Tangaroo : Va Penn........Internet.........we are currently talking to a school on an Indian Reservation in the SouthWest! MaristR : Do you have your own Internet node? Tangaroo : Yes! JAGarbe : Who pays for that, Tang? MaristR : Great, how much did it cost to set it up? Tangaroo : Here is the real kicker! It's free! VaPenn is free to all Fairfax County Public School teachers.. and it offers free access to Internet! MaristR : Does each student have their own internet address? AFA Bard : You get one account per school, Tangaroo? (GMTA, Roger!) Tangaroo : No, each class! JAGarbe : Great minds think alike Tangaroo : It's really wonderful....but you know my kids like the diskette swap better because they get to see MaristR : We are hoping to maybe have our own node next year, but it depends on the cost. Tangaroo : the people they are talking to.......you know how first graders are! BettyK1 : Tangaroo... You use a Mac? Do you have it (them) in your classroom? How many? Tangaroo : Private school....right Roger? MaristR : Yes, how could you tell. JAGarbe : What about sending quicktime movies, Tang? AFA Bard : Tangaroo- the new Mac System 7.1.2 support live mail (built in) Each student can establish a box. Were you aware of this? Andrea Page : Hi, In Florida we have FIRN which is free also to all teachers and they have access to the Internet. Tangaroo : Betty......I have 2 LC III's in my classroom thanks to a grant I got last year! from Apple! JAGarbe : But only if you're in a PUBLIC school...;/ AFA Bard : OK folks-- it's time for the FREE HOUR!!!!! Who wants to win? JAGarbe : me!! DTeevan : me BettyK1 : everyone!!! Andrea Page : me MaristR : Me, I only have an hour left this month. Tangaroo : Of course I would! AFA Bard : (Actually- we had a SECRET WORD that we searched for in the text log!) The WINNER for the word... AFA Bard : LAB is.............. JAGARBE! Everyone scream!!!!!! Yippeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tangaroo : YAY! JAGarbe : AHHHHHHH!!!!!!! Andrea Page : Wow Tangaroo : Way to go JAGARBE! JAGarbe : AFA Bard : Congratulations, JAGarbe! You'll get a FREE HOUR awarded to your account within 72 hours!!! JAGarbe : @@@@@ cool! Andrea Page : Where can I read more about this? AFA Bard : It's AWESOME to see all you folks this week-- don't forget to come again next week! 8-9 pm ET in this Tangaroo : Lab, huh? I want to hear more!\ AFA Bard : chat room! If you want more information about A2 Networking, be sure to check out the APPLE UTILITY MaristR : *YEE-HA!* AFA Bard : FORUM and the APPLE HARDWARE FORUM here on AOL! Good one, Roger-- pat the horse for me, won't ya? Tangaroo : Roger...........you telecommunicating? in your classroom? or is your thing networks? MaristR : We do some. We send letters over Internet. AFA Bard : Also... tonight's chat will be posted (in edited form) in the AED New Files Library sometime tomorrow morning. :) Tangaroo : Thanks Bard! AFA Bard : You're welcome! It was great to see all those smiling faces! Andrea Page : Nice meeting you for the first time. I'm new at this! AFA Bard : See ya'll later-- off to edit the chat and clean up my libraries! AOL FOREVER! Tangaroo : Got here late.....The Sound Of Music is on! AFA Bard : (nice to meet you Andrea-- please join us next week!) Tangaroo : Hi Andrea! BettyK1 : Bye... :)