Date: 9/25/94 Start Time: 8:03:17 PM End Time: 9:04:49 PM Participants: AFA Bard, AFC Leni, AlbertByer, BLAMB1, Cardinals1, FOX2438, JWMMartin, MaineTeach, MaristR, NancySmith, OCCTI, PamErwin AFA Bard : First, let me welcome everyone to the AOL Education Conference room! You'll find us here each Sunday from 8-9 pm ET with a different education-related topic. We're very AFA Bard : pleased this evening to have a very special guest!!!! Before I introduce him, I'll remind you that after tonight's conference, we'll be giving away a FREE ONLINE HOUR, so be sure to stick around. ;) And now our special guest... The AOL Education Forums are honored to have with us Lawrence Parker, Executive Director/CEO for AFA Bard : the Ohio Center for Critical Thinking Instruction. Larry (screenname OCCTI) has been a pioneer in working with educators in spreading the good word about this wonderful way of thinking about how we teach and learn. So without further introduction-- let's welcome our special guest-- Lawrence Parker (OCCTI)! Welcome, Larry! OCCTI : Good evening, everybody! Pardon my slow typing. Just on the off chance, any questions? PamErwin : Where is the Ohio Center for Critical Thinking Instruction, Larry? OCCTI : Ok, if not, the CT "movement" began in the U.S. around the turn of the century Here in Ohio, it's is very new In attending conferences, I noticed that everyone was there except for teachers. They didn't seem to be getting any of the information. So we created OCCTI, to disseminate information and provide pre- and in-service training. What is CT about? In short, it stresses learning through inquiry and dialogue to produce understanding, not just rote memorization of "data". Data is coming to fast and to heavy for anyone to digest. But to know how to find it, what to do with it, how to apply it and how to assess it, those are different matters and not wha is usually taught in schools. But, let's (Hi, Joe) not blame the teachers: they were never taught by their teachers either But the time has come, with attendant global issues, and this is "Childhood's End". We need to be reasonable, rational and responsible about the evaluations and decisions we make PamErwin : Ah, the three R's OCCTI : Hi Joe: drink of water? Yes, the new R's, but the old R's are still very important: PamErwin : Of course OCCTI : How can you think without information, and what good is it if you cannot communicate it to Cardinals1 : I'm majoring in History/Poly Sci, want to be a high school teacher OCCTI : others? Questions, Cardinal1? AlbertByer : Taught 3 years middle school Physical Science. Now getting masters in Science Edcation Cardinals1 : I do but it's off the wall OCCTI : What are your plans, Al? PamErwin : I'm a teacher of intellectually gifted students in Penfield, New York -- grades 3-8 Cardinals1 : Anybody here an expert on the Bible? PamErwin : We use the strategies found in the Creative Problem Sovling process used by numbers of corporations AlbertByer : Just interviewed informally with NASA, Aerospace Educational Specialist. OCCTI : My wife, Cardinals; go ahead. PamErwin : our own Xerox, in Rochester JWMMartin : Me voici. OCCTI : Pam, what kind of model do they use? Cardinals1 : Do you know of any reference to the "Hapiru" in the Bible, probably around Exodus PamErwin : CPS six step process. Our curriculum for the identified gifted kids is: Afftective, Communication OCCTI : Don't know, sorry. Sue PamErwin : skills, critical thinking skills, and Creative Problem Solving skills. AFA Bard : Cardinals1-- check the HyperCard forum for a searchable text of the Bible that might help. (Keyword: MHC ) AlbertByer : Larry, what are your feelings on science education in middle school. If taught right, should be C.T. Cardinals1 : where do I get that? Thanks OCCTI : Al, of course, but many will ask, but what's that? PamErwin : I also work with the regular classroom teachers to teach them and demonstrate for them how to use OCCTI : The problem, too often in science classes is that the information is handed to the students PamErwin : Creative Problem Solving and use Bloom in setting up activities for their students. OCCTI : rather than challenging them to search, explore and reason for themselves: i.e. what theorie s can they come up with, what knowledge do they already have, what assumptions, right or wrong are they coming in with, etc. AlbertByer : Exactly, so for those who are not using Scienctific Method, what's your organ doing to help BLAMB1 : what is the discussion? OCCTI : We emphasize the use of inquiry among the students, as a model for self-inquiry JWMMartin : Handing kids info happens in almost every classroom-unfortunately. PamErwin : I agree OCCTI : What we do, what needs to be done, is to help teachers to learn to use CT skills themselves BLAMB1 : i strongly agree- i am a law student, and I feel that first hand application is the only way to learn. OCCTI : in their own subject area. There are no "pat" answers, but there are ideas which have been NancySmith : We need to "show off" the good examples that we all use in our classrooms! Not just talk about bad ex OCCTI : used by people in the movement in the classroom with success. AlbertByer : Great, thank you. Do you hold annual, regional conferences. OCCTI : Exactly, Nancy, which is another reason we set up OCCTI. PamErwin : Getting them to ask the good questions and getting information, analyzing it and coming up possible solutions? OCCTI : Albert, soon, soon... AFA Bard : Q = PamErwin OCCTI : Thanks, Bard, Whew! My fingers don't go that fast AFA Bard : It's obvious you've got a hot topic here, Larry! :) And great questions! AFC Leni : :-) AFA Bard : Pam.. you're next.. your question was... OCCTI : Did I not get to anyone's question AFA Bard : Getting them to ask the good questions and getting information, analyzing it and coming up possible solutions? (from PamErwin) PamErwin : I think I unsderstand what you're getting at. I said I get my kids to ask questions, figure out how JWMMartin : It seems easier to disseminate info by handing it over. Line of least resistance. OCCTI : Yes, and it is in the way the class is set up and run: the teacher needs to 'let go' of the PamErwin : where, etc. to get information, analyze the info, come up with possible solutions, try them, anaylyze OCCTI : control, and let the students do the learning through discovery. PamErwin : \etc. and start all over again NancySmith : ? OCCTI : Pam, we will be leaving a file of information that will get you started and in touch. Nancy? NancySmith : Larry-- are you connected with Univ? If so-- are you seeing a change in teacher ed there? PamErwin : ! OCCTI : No, not really. Another reason we set up OCCTI. There is a natural resistance from teacher s to think that they may not actually be teaching. The resistance is stronger the higher their degree. Known as the Harvard Syndrome! NancySmith : Do you offer "classes" for Pre-serv. teachers? How? AFC Leni : ? OCCTI : Yes, we wil send you a brochure! Leni? NancySmith : How does your group "spread the word" about crit. thinking? AFA Bard : Wait, Larry.. Pam Erwin's next! Hang on a second, Leni. :) AFC Leni : How does the constructivist thinking fit into your beliefs, OCCTI? Oops..sorry :-> AFA Bard : A comment Pam? PamErwin : Our motto is: NOT the sage on the stage but the guide on the side. OCCTI : Love it, Pam! Yes, as Maslow liked to point out, you can meditate all you want, but if you don't do any- thing, what good is it? AFA Bard : Great.. AFC Leni asks "how does the constructivist thinking fit into your beliefs?" OCCTI : Nancy, we have a newsletter, there are journals and books. I know I've read about it, remind me AFC Leni : Constructivists belief that children learn by doing... JWMMartin : ! AFC Leni : by shaping their own learning, with teacher facilitation...I think :-) OCCTI : Is there any other way? But it still needs to be a quided and reflected learning which is shared with others. Others supply additional perspectives and ideas. AFC Leni : By questioning and guiding the thinking? OCCTI : There are many ways to learn many different things, but if the child is not integrating the information into his/her life and thinking, then little is gained. AFC Leni : Called in teaching circle...Making the Learning their own :-) OCCTI : An example, you can study Driver's Ed. books and traffic laws, and still not know how to drive a car, ...until you do it. PamErwin : ! AFC Leni : ga AFA Bard : Your comment Joe? (Q= Pam) JWMMartin : There are others besides constructivists who believe that one learns by doing. Learning is doing and doing is learning. Look at recent lit. AFA Bard : Your comment Pam? PamErwin : Our students use CPS starting in grade 3. In grade 5 they go into the city and meet in groups of 5 witht the professional who has set up a problem for them to solve. Ex. lawyer sets up a trial, stock broker has them go throught the process of figuring out how to invest for their college ten years henc etc. OCCTI : Pam, we would like to get some info on what you're doing. One question: why only the gifted? PamErwin : Ah, that's true. We are getting into the class room now that teachers are becoming more tuned in to what we're doing. The reason we do it for the gifted is that we take them out of the class room twice a week to study process skills. Now the teachers are beginning to see some results and are asking that we "show " them and work with the regular classrooms. Would be great if we worked ourselves out of a job and the regular classroom teachers took over. OCCTI : How many times we have said the same thing! Rochester is not that far away from Akron! PamErwin : ! OCCTI : MaristR, we haven't heard from you. Do you have a question? Joe, can you talk about some of your frustrations? AFA Bard : OCCTI... before Marist... can you give the address where folks can write for more information? MaristR : I teach keyboarding and computer applications. You can't more hands on than that. AFA Bard : (Q - Pam, Joe) OCCTI : Address: The Ohio Center for Critical Thinking Instruction, Inc. 89 Grand Avenue Akron, Ohio 44303-1004 216-762-5341 AOL - OCCTI Internet: occti@holonet.net AFA Bard : Thanks, LP! Back to the Q.. .our comment, Pam? PamErwin : We are now into compacting kids out of the regular classroom - pretesting and having them do only the work that gives them mastery of what they didn't know. The "bought time is used by the student to delve into something they are passionate about. JWMMartin : ! PamErwin : We're doing this in grades 2-8 AFA Bard : Hmm... "bought time is an interesting concept!". Joe (JWMMartin), your comment? JWMMartin : Re my frustrations, there are many. After over thirty years in the classroom, I find less thinking and less concern on the part of adminis trators that this is so. We have a tendency to talk a good game. We tend to take this easy way out. OCCTI : Pam, we have talked, and talked with Joe, about setting up a charter school consisting of half day online, researching infor and networking with others, and half day in class dialoging with other students PamErwin : ! OCCTI : Networking, building a community of inquiry is essential. Pam? PamErwin : That sounds fantastic. Only problem is getting the administrators to give half day online. I'm so bo booked up with classes now, that I can't see it happening right away. I have been involved with a number of projects through KidLink and Chatback which the kids have found stimulating....not just pe pen pal stuff. AFA Bard : (And of course, Pam, you've checked out our school-to-school project here on AOL in the JWMMartin : ! AFA Bard : Electronic Schoolhouse. ) OCCTI : Pam, I'll also send you some info on ISMENNT, a network in Iceland doing the same thing Joe? PamErwin : Actually, I am new on AOL (two months over the summer) and am just now finding out what's abailable. AFA Bard : (Pam.. try keyword: ESH - you'll find a wealth of online projects there!) JWMMartin : Pen pal stuff is great with foreign langs. It has definite motivational benefit. AFA Bard : Ok folks.. almost time to wind down... anyone have a last question or comment for our guest? PamErwin : ! OCCTI : Very much so. Linguistically, we in the U.S. are extremely backward and illiterate. JWMMartin : Thanks. This was stimulating. AFA Bard : Pam.. your comment? (Hang on Joe.. free hour awarded in just minutes!) OCCTI : Joe!!! PamErwin : Joe, sorry, I didn't mean to put down pen pals. It's just that when the kids do it within their own l language it gets a bit just surface stuff. JWMMartin : I understand that. OCCTI : This is where the discipline comes in with CT. There are criteria to hold our work up to! PamErwin : Right on! AFA Bard : Wow! That hour just FLEW by! ;) PamErwin : ! AFA Bard : OK, Pam.. one last comment. ;) PamErwin : Thanks, and please send me the info, Larry. OCCTI : Done. AFA Bard : Great! Let's give our special guest, Lawrence Parker, OCCTI, a BIG HAND to thank him for his OCCTI : and look for more mail and chatting! AFA Bard : participation in tonight's online conference!!!! ()()()()()()()()()()()() PamErwin : *Applaudir1* JWMMartin : HAND AFA Bard : For more information about the Ohio Ctr. for Crit. Thinking send e-mail to OCCTI or phone 216-762-5341. And now.. ** Time for the FREE HOUR GIVEAWAY! *** (::: spinning the wheel :::) Tonight's FREE ONLINE HOUR goes to... MaristR : *DRUMROLL* AFA Bard : (Thanks, Roger!) PamErwin : Tatal AFA Bard : PamErwin!!!!!!! Congrats to Pam!!!!!!! JWMMartin : OK OCCTI : Yeah! MaristR : *YEE-HA!* AFA Bard : Your free hour will be credited to your account within 72 hours! An edited version of tonight's log will be posted in the AED library later tonight. PamErwin : GREAT!!!! Thanks a lot!!! I'll use it to findthings for myu kids to be involved in. OCCTI : Pam, use it to contact us! PamErwin : I'll so that, too. oops, do that, too. AFA Bard : Thanks, again, to our guest OCCTI... Thanks to everyone else who joined us tonight! Join us next week, same AOL TIME (8-9 ET) for another spirited electronic education conference!