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APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
Tuesday, January 21, 1992  10:00 p.m. Eastern Time
Topic:  Sound Programming & General Questions
Forum Leader:  Gary Jacobson (AFL GaryJ)


AFL GaryJ  Welcome to the Apple II Development Forum!
AFL GaryJ  Tonight's Topic is Programming with Sound on the Apple IIGS.
AFL GaryJ  We've never had a topic on this before, and it looks like everyone
           is
AFL GaryJ  just dying to get in here to find something out about it :)
AFL GaryJ  Since the IIGS has such great sound capabilities, (and of course,
           the "S" in
AFL GaryJ  IIGS stands for "Sound" - duh)
AFC DYAJim Great Sound = GS :)
AFL GaryJ  Yeah, Great Sound and Graphics Stupendous
AFL GaryJ  (or something like that)
AFL GaryJ  Anyway, I know many of you in here have at least dabbled with
           the
AFL GaryJ  sound tools, or played with the sound capabilities in some way.
AFL GaryJ  Jim, I was interested in the question you asked in the message
           board.
AFL GaryJ  Were you looking for an Apple II speaker type of sound routine,
           or
AFL GaryJ  something else?
AFC DYAJim oh, just a unique sound blip :)
AFC DYAJim (non-ensoniq)
AFL GaryJ  Ah.  I see.
AFL GaryJ  Apple II style, then?
AFC DYAJim I eventually stumbled upon two.. 
AFC DYAJim one from sound and grafix on the GS, and one that I made myself
           :)
AFC DYAJim I ended up implmenting the latter.
AFC DYAJim Apple II style, so it doesn't conflict with the running
           application.
AFC DYAJim I don't want to assume the ensoniq will always be free for my
           use..
AFC DYAJim I ended up creating a really unique sounding blip that I like a
           lot :)
AFL GaryJ  I have some routines for that too, but I wasn't absolutely sure
           that is what
AFL GaryJ  you were looking for.
AFL GaryJ  If anyone has a question (on this topic, or another topic if
           you'd like)
AFL GaryJ  then ask away.
JWankerl   Any topic?  Then ? * 2 - semi related (but not sound related :-)
AFL GaryJ  Related to the Apple II?  That's close enough, Joe :)
AFL GaryJ  Go Ahead.
JWankerl   Okay - Page 131 of the GS/OS Call Reference (Chapter 7) - the
           DStatus call,
JWankerl   code $0003 GetFormatOptions.  I make this call to an Apple 3.5
           drive with a
JWankerl   disk in the drive, formatted freshly with the finder, and the
           result I get
JWankerl   has a zero ($0000) as the currentOption word.  WHY??????
JWankerl   GA  (I'll ask 2nd in a minute :-)
JWankerl   No takers?  :-)
AFL GaryJ  (Looking :)
AFA Jay    this is the word thats offset 06? :)
JWankerl   Yes, offset $06.
JWankerl   Formatting option of current media.
AFA Jay    what does it usually return?
Matt DTS   Still looking for GS/OS Reference (hmm...)
JWankerl   It always returns a zero for the apple 3.5 drive.  I don't
           remember what
JWankerl   happens with other devices.
AFL GaryJ  It is non-zero on other devices, then?
AFL GaryJ  (Or you don't remember even if it's non-zero?)
JWankerl   It's always zero when I make the call to the apple 3.5 drive.
           It's been 1
JWankerl   before for a hard drive, I think.
Matt DTS   Oh, that thing.  Got it.
JWankerl   Maybe it doesn't work for removable media?
Matt DTS   $0000 means "unknown"; it means the driver doesn't know what
           option this device was formatted with.
Matt DTS   If the driver supports it, this is how you find out what
           interleave, etc., a current device has.
JeffreyH11 How can it not know, for a floppy?
JWankerl   Ahhh... okay.  Is that documented anywhere, Matt?
Matt DTS   Most drivers don't support it.
Matt DTS   I see it on page 32 of Device Driver Reference, which is a
           confirmation to what I remembered.
Matt DTS   Jeff:  Print 500 sheets on one laser printer and 500 sheets on
           another with the same software.
Matt DTS   Mix them all up and pick one at random.  How can you not know
           which printer it came from?  :)
Matt DTS   (Or better yet, run the sheets back through the printer and expect
           it to know.)
AFC DYAJim but Matt, can't it read a sector and get the skew from that?
AFC DYAJim and then see if it's a skew that it supports, and then if so, pick
           the right
AFC DYAJim opt?
Matt DTS   Perhaps, but most Apple drivers don't do that much low-level I/O
           in the driver.
Matt DTS   They use the firmware where possible to save memory.
AFC DYAJim oh, alrighty then :)
AFC DYAJim so then would it ever know?
AFC DYAJim even with its own disks?
Matt DTS   If it doesn't support it, it doesn't support it, Jim.
AFL GaryJ  Ok... What was your other question?
JWankerl   Okay, page 133 of GS/OS Reference - the flags word in the
           formatoptions list
JWankerl   for the DStatus call defines the multiplier bits in the flag...
           the
JWankerl   apple 3.5 drive returns bits 0 and 1 as 00 - which means the
           multiplier is
JWankerl   bytes - but I KNOW that it should be kilobytes.  What gives?
Matt DTS   December TNs, GS/OS #13:
Matt DTS   "The diagram describing the Flags word of GetFormatOptions is
           incorrect.  Bits 0 and 1 are...
Matt DTS   ...actually the format type, while bits 2 and 3 are the size
           multiplier.  In other words, the two
Matt DTS   labels are backwards."
JWankerl   Oh.  Okay.  :-)  Glad to know I'm not crazy.  :-)
JeffreyH11 Are those here yet?
Matt DTS   They haven't been released to online services yet because the
           indexes aren't done yet.
AFL GaryJ  Joe, that doesn't mean your not crazy.  It just means that it's
           not
AFL GaryJ  correct in your book :)
AFL GaryJ  Ok, any other questions tonight?
JWankerl   :-)  Not from me.  I know EVERYTHING now.  :-)
AFL GaryJ  Ok, Joe... I've got a sound question for you :)
JWankerl   Fire away, Gary...
AFL GaryJ  (nah, just kidding :)
JWankerl   :-)  Awwwwwww.... chicken.  :-)
AFL GaryJ  I could think one up :)
AFL GaryJ  Our topic is "Sound Programming on the Apple IIGS".  If you have
FL GaryJ  a question or comment, jump right in (we're not up to protocol,
           yet)
Nuzz       I've got a SANE question. The docs say to save a few bytes of its
           DP between calls,
Nuzz       can you elaborate on that a bit
Matt DTS   No.
AFC DYAJim that would be insane
Nuzz       (comedians everywhere)
AFL GaryJ  Did you finish your question, Mike?
Nuzz       yep
Nuzz       BTW, it is bytes 24 to 29
AFL GaryJ  For those of you coming in late, our topic tonight is "Sound
           Programming
AFL GaryJ  on the IIGS" (but we are a bit off-topic at the moment).  Does
           anyone
AFL GaryJ  have any questions they'd like to ask?  
AFL GaryJ  (Or comments to make)
Nuzz       I guess I sorta asked for that. But, it seems unusual to save
           something everytime
Nuzz       yoiu have to make a call
AFA Parik  i don't know if everyone picked it up yet..
AFA Parik  but noisetracker v0.77 and the soundtool for it (a typical,
           french, system tool)
AFA Parik  is in ams.  play your own neat songs.
AFA Parik  or maybe its noisetracker 0.70.  sounds good tho.
AFC DYAJim the tool is there too?
AFA Parik  the disk I got has the tool (TOOL220 I think)
AFC DYAJim now we just need tool source :)
AFC DYAJim like for tool219 :)
AFC DYAJim all their dumb system tools..
AFA Parik  i think you can still load it w/o having it in the */SYSTEM/TOOLS
           directory.  I remember
AFA Parik  doing something like that, a long time ago, in a galaxy far
           away.
AFC DYAJim wasn't that with user tools?
AFA Parik  there should be a way to do it w/ system tools.
YarkoT     It should be in the same dir as the application that is using it,
           right.
YarkoT     If the finder doesn't need the tool doesn't that work?
AFA Parik  no, the french programs usually require it to be in */SYSTEM/TOOLS
           i think
AFA Jay    I have a question that's not really my question...
AFA Jay    Dave125 was in here earlier asking about something, so I'm going
           to ask for
AFA Jay    him.
YarkoT     But you said you had it so its yours now.
AFA Jay    He was wondering if it was possible to have the font manager load
           fonts from
AFA Jay    somewhere other than *:System:Fonts...
AFA Jay    such as off a network hard drive or something.
AFC DYAJim I'll repeat myself.. why not use the load and install font
           routines that
Matt DTS   He asked me that in mail.  The answer's "no."
AFC DYAJim all those Font DA loders take advantage of?
Matt DTS   The Font Manager has the "*/system/Fonts" path hard-coded.
AFA Jay    Oh, ok...
AFC DYAJim what about servers, Matt? ;)
AFA Jay    Well, the argument for the Font loader is that not everyone has 4
           meg to spare
AFA Jay    to load fonts ahead of time.
AFC DYAJim Well, they're loaded when you ask for them, dynamically, are they
           not?
AFL GaryJ  Was he looking for something to incorporate into his own
           program?
AFC DYAJim You're not loading them all at boot or something..
Matt DTS   If you boot over a server, you get the fonts from the server.
           Fonts only come from *:System:Fonts.
YarkoT     No they are loaded into memory when you select them.
AFA Jay    Right, if they're off *:System:Fonts...
AFA Jay    they load when you need them...
AFC DYAJim So then you don't have to have 4mb.
AFA Jay    but if you use a font loader, I believe, I'm sure I will be
           corrected if I'm
AFA Jay    wrong, they are loaded into memory.
YarkoT     Right Jay.
AFA Jay    He wanted to have them just like they were in *:System:Fonts...
AFA Jay    so they wouldn't take up memory if he didn't need them...
AFC DYAJim I still don't see what the person is trying to do.
AFA Jay    which, I realize, is impossible :)
AFL GaryJ  That's what I'm trying to understand.
AFC DYAJim can you release loaded fonts (loaded using the techniques that
           font DA loaders
AFC DYAJim use)?
YarkoT     Is he on a network but boots off his 3.5" drive?
AFC DYAJim if so then you can just load and release them yourself.
AFA Jay    That is possible...
Matt DTS   He wants to write a utility that lets you choose a font folder
           somewhere other than your boot volume.
AFA Jay    he wanted to get the fonts off a network hard drive...
Matt DTS   No -- once a font is added with the Font Manager, you have to shut
           it down to get it out of the lists.
AFA Jay    so maybe he doesn't have a hard drive of his own or much memory.
JeffreyH11 Change the string in the Font Manager? :-)
Matt DTS   "Hard-coded" means "you can only replace it with a string of the
           same length."
Locutus04  Okay what tool would I want to use if I want to put a song in a
           program?
Nuzz       crowbar?
AFC DYAJim What kind of song?
Spottysoft Tool219???  :D
Locutus04  Hmm.  Let's say something from SnithLab.
Nuzz       You could use tool 35 Midisynth to add Synth sequences
Matt DTS   (Or Snithlab.  <grin>)
AFL GaryJ  That's what you'd use for something like synthLab stuff :)
AFC DYAJim Synthlab has its own tool.. midiSynth tool 35.. full documentation
           is availble
AFC DYAJim from APDA or Resource central
Locutus04  What about NoiseTracker
AFC DYAJim NoiseTracker.. there supposedly is a tool shipped with v0.55 and
           above,
AFC DYAJim download 0.7 in AMS to find out.. I don't know what kind of
           documentation
AFC DYAJim is provided.
Spottysoft (The NT0.7 archive doesn't have the Tool220 with it :/.  Has some
           short docs)
AFC DYAJim sounded like just technotes
AFC DYAJim (well then supposedly the tool is floating around somewhere)
AFA Parik  I will send the nt0.7 source code stuff to ADV in the next few
           days
AFA Parik  it only plays its own song format however
Nuzz       It thought it only played DEMO songs :)
AFC DYAJim Well, their tool219 came with interface files for TML Pascal and a
           pascal
AFC DYAJim program as well as an assembly program showing how to use it, and
           some
AFC DYAJim french dox.
AFC DYAJim I don't know how tool220 will be.
AFA Parik  the noisetracker tool is strickly merlin
AFA Parik  in fact, it includes a link library so you MUST USE MERLIN
AFC DYAJim make that files :)
Locutus04  Changing the subject for a min.  where can I get a copy of
           Choser.II other then
Locutus04  My GS ROM.
Locutus04  On a ROM3.
Matt DTS   Chooser II comes on the Apple IIe Workstation disks and on all
           IIgs system disks before 5.0.
YarkoT     I have a copy that was included on my system tools disk with sys
           disk 3.2
JeffreyH11 Locutus; I've got a System 3.2 disk at home if you want it.
Locutus04  Really.  I have a copy 4.0 amd it's not on there.
Matt DTS   It should be on the System Tools disk, Locutus.  If not, it's
           definitely on 3.2.
Locutus04  Yes, Jeff but you are in Pitt now not Erie. :)
AFL GaryJ  4.0 is in our library
AFL GaryJ  (In the OLD system software library)
AFA Parik  wouldn't it be neat if you could drive away bugs from your
           programs w/ faith healing?
AFL GaryJ  Now I think Parik is dreaming :)
AFA Parik  I wonder if we'll ever see the II Ethernet card?
YarkoT     One exist?
JeffreyH11 I heard 3 exist
AFA Parik  thats what I hear
AFC DYAJim looks like it's a lot further away then the FDHD card
AFA Parik  or 6.0  :-)
Matt DTS   (the FDHD card was released four months ago, Jim)
YarkoT     hey I bet we can build one real cheap after the DSP card comes out
           using one
YarkoT     of the ports on the DSP chip
AFC DYAJim four months?  ick!  thought it was released mid November
JeffreyH11 OK, then it's not further away. just a different direction.
Matt DTS   October 1st, I think.
AFL GaryJ  Well, our conference hour is officially up.  But, everyone is
           welcome to
AFL GaryJ  stick around and chat (as we have been all evening :)