America Online APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG Tuesday, July 14, 1992 10:00pm Eastern Time Topic: Pascal and C Programming Forum Leader: Gary Jacobson (AFL GaryJ) AFL GaryJ Welcome to the Apple II Develpment Forum! Tonight.... AFL GaryJ our topic is Pascal and C programming! AFL GaryJ And, since we're supposed to talk about Pascal tonight, it is a particularly AFL GaryJ good time to plug our Apple IIGS ORCA/Pascal class (for toolbox programming) that AFL GaryJ is being offered in connection with Programmer U! The classes AFL GaryJ have been put off a month, (since the original promotions did not run) AFL GaryJ and to allow some refinement on the course materials. AFL GaryJ The class is scheduled to start on August 10th... AFL GaryJ and there will be an open house on August 3rd. AFL GaryJ This class will be taught by a REAL pro..... Jim Merritt (Presbyte). Sheppy :: applause :: AFL GaryJ The course is designed for those who already know generic Pascal, and AFL GaryJ want to learn how to use the specific features of the Apple IIGS. AFL GaryJ (i.e. Toolbox and GS/OS stuff) AFL GaryJ Anyway, this is a great opportunity for anyone who wants to AFL GaryJ enhance their Pascal skills. The class if free of charge (except for AFL GaryJ connection time) AFL GaryJ Ok, enough plugging, but I think the class is pretty important :) AFL GaryJ Now, let's get on to your specific questions (even questions pertaining to AFL GaryJ the upcoming Pascal class.... plug plug :) AFL GaryJ Let's use PROTOCOL this evening, so if you have a question, type a AFL GaryJ "?" on a line by itself, or if you have a comment on the current topic, type AFL GaryJ a "!" on a line by itself. Jay will keep track of the queue, and I'll call on AFL GaryJ you when it's your turn to type. AFL GaryJ How many people here program in Pascal or C? (or would like to?) AFL Marty I'd like to. AFL GaryJ Or have ever bought a Pascal or C compiler that is sitting on your shelf? Sheppy Orca/C, other forms of Pascal... :) AFL Marty mememe AFL GaryJ (or taking up space on your hard drive :) AFA Andy <-- learning C slowly ;) IIGS MATT <---taking pascal class next year AFL GaryJ Does anyone still use TML or Complete Pascal? AFL GaryJ (Or should I ask such a question? :) AFA Andy I have ORCA. Sheppy I tried TML once. AFC SteveB I bought ORCA/Pascal, don't use it too much...and Complete Pascal AFC SteveB got thrashed when my HD died (oh darn :) AFL Marty Gee that's a shame Steve AFC SteveB Oh yeah :) Sheppy Steve: My heart weeps for you and your Complete Pascal. AFL GaryJ Steve, you don't use ORCA/Pascal, but you do use Complete? AFC SteveB InComplete block Fragments now, Eric :) IIGS MATT what is a good pascal program for GS that allows GS toolbox? AFL GaryJ Pascal compiler? IIGS MATT yeah IIGS MATT I already know basic. AFL GaryJ The only one that I can recommend is ORCA/Pascal. It is well AFL GaryJ supported, and does support the IIGS toolbox. Sheppy Yeah, go with Orca/Pascal... AFL GaryJ It was always a favored product, as it is compatable with the other AFL GaryJ ORCA products (allows you to link Pascal, C, and Assembly stuff into AFL GaryJ a single program, assuming you have the other compiler/assembler) AFL GaryJ And the environment is popular too. IIGS MATT what about an advanced basic in comparison to learning pascal? AFL GaryJ Advanced BASIC? There are a few made for the IIGS (unfortunately, The Byte Works AFL GaryJ /ORCA isn't one of them). Sheppy ...even though there's a language number for Orca/BASIC. :) AFL GaryJ There is Micol Advanced BASIC for the IIGS, AC BASIC, and there was AFL GaryJ also TML BASIC (but that never worked too well). Sheppy AC BASIC is a bit out-dated, though. :( AFL GaryJ Yes, but some people still swear by it. IIGS MATT what about Micol? AFC SteveB Micol's probably the best-supported. IIGS MATT how does Micol compare to Orca pascal? AFL GaryJ I mentioned Micol. I agree with Steve. Right now it is the best supported. Sheppy Yeah, it is. AC BASIC isn't supported much at all... AFA Andy Doesn't AirShip still use Micol? AFL GaryJ TML BASIC was never "promised" to be Complete. (And Complete is AFL GaryJ completely gone) AFL GaryJ I'm not sure how much stuff Airship does in Micol. AFL GaryJ Most of his stuff was done in AC BASIC, if I remember correctly. AFL GaryJ He's one of the ones who loves AC. He's done some really neat applications AFL GaryJ with it too. AFL GaryJ ("Tonight's Sky IIGS") IIGS MATT hmmmm...thanks everybody... AFL GaryJ You're welcome, Matt. IIGS MATT thanks again....bye all. AFL GaryJ Feel free to ask again if you have another question. AFL GaryJ Ok, I've typed enough for awhile.... your turn. Anyone have any questions or AFL GaryJ comments? AFL GaryJ I think everyone is getting hyped up for KansasFest. AFL GaryJ Has anyone taken a look at Mike Westerfield's Pascal course? AFL GaryJ (The recently announced product) Sheppy Nope. AFL GaryJ (hmmm... I have some literature on it here somewhere :) AFA Jay Is Mike's course an Online one or just a coorespondence one? AFL GaryJ No (not online). Matt DTS Neither -- it's a self-paced complete course at purchase time. AFL GaryJ It's a toolbox oriented tutorial. AFA Jay Oh, so it's like LTP but for the toolbox. Fun :) AFL GaryJ Yes. AFL GaryJ Mike has posted some information about his Pascal course materials AFL GaryJ in the "Using the Toolbox from Pascal" folder in the Pascal board. Nonogon I got a question for you all, Im trying to hook up my old GS to my fx, (Network em) Is the new sys Nonogon softwarte available to do this? AFC SteveB Personal AppleShare. Nonogon if yes, how? and can I D/l the software on my mac, and transfer it over to the gs AFC SteveB Yup. I do it all the time. AFL GaryJ System 7 on the Mac should do it for you. Nonogon Steve, ok I have Gs os 4.0 on my gs, Im sure I need to update that to sys 6 (GS OS) AFC SteveB That'd help things slightly :) AFL GaryJ Yes, it's a BIG leap from 4.0 to 6.0! AFL GaryJ :) AFL GaryJ Many many new and faster features. AFL GaryJ You'll be glad you did. Nonogon How do I D/l the GS software to mac, and then transfer the files over...(The GS has been boxed for Nonogon 3 years AFC SteveB Apple File Exchange AFA Jay Or A2FX for the GS... AFC SteveB It comes with every Mac system disk. AFA Jay Once you have System 6, you can just pop a Mac disk in :) AFC SteveB Although once you have System 6, you'll be able to read AFL GaryJ Right :) AFC SteveB HFS (Mac) disks directly :) AFC SteveB Steal my thought why don't ya Jay :) AFL GaryJ System 6 has a Macintosh HFS File System Translator which allows AFA Jay Ok Steve, I will :) AFL GaryJ you to read Mac disks directly (but of course, you can't do that until you AFL GaryJ have System 6 on your IIGS :) Nonogon AFE, right! ok What was the method for activating the network on the GS side? AFL GaryJ I have never done it personally (although I know many people who have) AFC SteveB I couldn't tell you Brian, I haven't tried it yet. Nonogon Can I store my GS files on my mac HD without messing with prodos formats, and then share them AFL GaryJ Anyone know the specifics on what to activate on the Mac? AFC SteveB That's the advantage of a network, Nonogon. AFL SandyB I've got the Mac and //gs networked with Appletalk. I can access everything on the //gs with the Mac. AFL SandyB But the //gs can't read the Mac files. AFL SandyB (Mac hard drives.) Nonogon I actually just wanted to play with the network options in Sys7, I setting up a 30 station network AFL SandyB --as far as I know-- Nonogon Thanks sandy, I'll get the new GS OS and go from there.! AFC SteveB Sandy, you got System 6 on your GS? AFL GaryJ I think you should be able to, Sandy AFL SandyB Ayup. But I also did it under 5.04. AFL GaryJ Ah (System 6 should fix that) AFL SandyB I also did it on my //c and my Mac+ with the Chinook //c hard drive. AFL SandyB (It sounds more impressive than it is.) Nuzz I saw Sandy's setup :) AFC SteveB If you have the HFS FST installed in your GS, you should be able to AFC SteveB read files from your Mac HD... Nonogon I'll be back if I run into problems! AFL SandyB I understand Proterm 3.0 under 6.0 doesn't print properly--can you fix that on the fly? AFL GaryJ Doesn't print properly? AFL SandyB It won't print until you print out of something else and come back into ProTerm 3.0--like print AFL SandyB first from the old ProTerm or from Aworks or any other program first. I understand Jerry's workingt AFL SandyB on it. AFL GaryJ Ah, "print properly" as in not printing at all. LL AndyW Sounds like they aren't calling the firmware init routine.. AFL GaryJ I haven't heard of that problem before. I haven't talked to Jerry in quite AFL GaryJ a while, either. AFL SandyB Sounds like only one person in our club even uses it/prints from it. AFL GaryJ I still use the previous version. AFA Andy I use PT 3.0 AFL GaryJ There's quite a few people around here that use 3.0. I'm sure I could find AFL GaryJ out something. AFL GaryJ Andy, do you have any trouble printing from 3.0? AFL GaryJ (Under System 6.0) AFA Andy Not at all, I do most of the stuff for ABF with the editor and I always make AFA Andy a hard copy. AFL GaryJ Hmmm... could be a combination of software that is causing the problem AFL SandyB Which version of 3.0 do you have, Andy? AFL GaryJ with the user you mentioned, Sandy? AFL SandyB Is it after April 14 or before? AFA Andy I think it's the updated version, Sandy. AFL GaryJ Did they call it 3.01? (Or the "After April 14th" version? :) AFL SandyB Ah, that's the version with the problem. It fixed a lot of problems (up/downloading, editor, etc.) an AFL SandyB broke printing. AFA Andy I think so, Gary! AFL SandyB There have been 4 updates or so. Nuzz So who's going to KFest? AFL GaryJ Mike, are you teaching a class again this year? Nuzz Yep Gary, SteveB and me are doing "Programmers Introduction to MidiSynth" AFL GaryJ Next time we do "Stump the Experts", I think you need to be on the expert's AFL GaryJ panel. (They need some help with Midi/Sound questions :) AFC SteveB I've got a little question...off topic, but the hour's done with AFC SteveB I'm writing my own little drag routine. Since I'll be handling main AFC SteveB events in my modal window with _GetNextEvent, so I'll be able to see AFC SteveB MouseDown events. When my drag routine is in effect, what would be the AFC SteveB coolest thing to do? _GetNextEvents until I see a MouseUp, or should AFC SteveB I call _Button or _StillDown to determine that? :) James S WI In ORCA/C would extended be the fastet type of float? LL AndyW It should be James.. No type conversions.. James S WI That is what I thought. Darn, so how do I make it faster? :) LL AndyW The only thing faster is integer (long and short).. LL AndyW But extended would be the fastest floating point.. AFL GaryJ Let's see... I have some code that I've written that does that... AFL GaryJ (I'm trying to remember how I handled it) AFL GaryJ I think I used _StillDown AFL GaryJ (But I'm checking) Nuzz The first Gary Little book has a real neat routine to base that on Steve Nuzz It uses StillDown AFC SteveB "Exploring the Apple IIGS", Mike? Nuzz I think the routine draws rectangles, but can be a starter for ideas Yes, that Nuzz book AFL GaryJ Yeah, I do a _StillDown and a _GetMouse AFL GaryJ Did you ever subscribe to 8/16, Steve? AFC SteveB Page 154- Yup, GBL uses them too. No, Gary. AFL GaryJ Ok. There was a good article on "rolling your own controls" in one of them, AFL GaryJ which had a nice little example. AFL GaryJ (By Steve Stephenson) AFC SteveB Cool :) AFL GaryJ a lot of neat stuff for Seven Hills (he did Independence, and Disk Access) AFL GaryJ He's maintaining the code for GraphicsWriter now (he didn't write it) AFC SteveB QuickLaunch too AFL GaryJ Yeah! QuickLaunch. AFL GaryJ He's one of the few people in the world who has actually made a living by AFL GaryJ only programming his Apple II. AFL GaryJ (All this time) Nuzz Talkin about programming. If anyone has anything they think is commercial Nuzz quality, give Triad a call.......