America Online APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG Tuesday, October 20, 1992 10:00 p.m. Eastern Time Topic: Telecommunications Programming Forum Leader: Gary Jacobson (AFL GaryJ) AFL GaryJ Welcome to the Apple II Development Forum! AFL GaryJ Tonight is the night where we talk about how to "reach out and touch someone" AFL GaryJ with your programming skills :) Our topic is "Telecommunications Programming" on the AFL GaryJ Apple II. AFL GaryJ Let's not use protocol, just yet at least. If things get too harry to AFL GaryJ make sense of the conversation, I reserve the right to enact protocol AFL GaryJ later on. AFL GaryJ Does anyone have any questions or comments on Apple II communications AFL GaryJ programming they'd like to start off with this evening? Cletus H When will the II have a good Modem fax softwre Cletus H and is there a problem doing this? AFC DYAJim The AE modem has fax software, and another modem might soon. Cletus H I know about AE seen it and don't like it GNO Jawaid Cletus - do you want this for a IIgs or a IIe/c/etc.? Cletus H IIGS but the II people deserve something too GA GNO Jawaid I'm just doing a tad o' Market Research :-) GNO Jawaid I could do a IIgs FaxModem thing that would knock your socks off... but GNO Jawaid it'd be strictly IIgs. Sheppy Strictly IIGS wouldn't bug _me_ (personally) since I have a GS. :) Cletus H do it Please.... ( on my knee's )] GNO Jawaid Ok, I'll put a big check next to "Fax Software" on the PPP (Procyon Possible GNO Jawaid Projects) List. :-) AFL SandyB I want one for the //c. Our club has about 8 new //c users who are crazy about their used machines. AFL SandyB We can't keep them in software, :). GNO Jawaid Quality may beat me to it, though. AFL GaryJ Sounds like a wanted item, Jawaid. AFC DYAJim But will Quality do it for everyone or just their modems? GNO Jawaid A FaxModem is a FaxModem, Jim (external, that is.) AFC DYAJim But can't they write it so that it won't work with competition? AFL GaryJ That's very possible to do. GNO Jawaid But Quality doesn't have "Quality FaxModems", they have Zoom faxmodems, GNO Jawaid Supra Faxmodems, etc. AFC DYAJim Oh - I didn't know what they had.. AFC SteveB AE did that with DataTerm or whatever software that comes AFC SteveB with the Datalink-- it won't run on anything other than a DataLink modem. FredW GS Is the signal a FAX sends different than the signal a modem send? GNO Jawaid Fred- there's a different startup protocol, I know that. Past that I don't GNO Jawaid know. AFL GaryJ They are similar, but different, Fred :) GNO Jawaid Oh, and the phone company has special support in their computers and switches GNO Jawaid for Faxes, too.. for instance, there are devices that can route incoming GNO Jawaid calls to a fax or phone before the line is picked up. FredW GS There must be something otherwise all modems would be "Fax/modems. AFL GaryJ They certainly sound different. (But I'm not up on fax protocol either) GNO Jawaid BTW, there's some great FaxModem software source code available. GNO Jawaid From the Free Software Foundation, of course. Somebody with more time than GNO Jawaid I have should put it up here on AOL.. AFL GaryJ Where, Jawaid? LL AndyW Where?? GNO Jawaid (Internet FTP to gnu.ai.mit.edu) GNO Jawaid (oops 'prep.ai.mit.edu') GNO Jawaid Well, looks like I've been elected to grab it and put it on AOL. :) ga AFL GaryJ Let's go with protocol now. (Looks like Fred has a question) FredW GS OK...I am trying to talk to a printer I own ... FredW GS I can "send a file to it using Snowterm...but when I try to write a program... FredW GS myself to do it...It doesn't work...Is all handshaking done via the Apple FredW GS firmware or do I have to write that myself? GNO Jawaid How are you opening the printer port? FredW GS OK here is where people start to laugh...I am trying to use PR#1 to just FredW GS send the info out the port. GNO Jawaid In a BASIC program? FredW GS Actually I am using the equivalent MABASIC command OUTSLOT(1) GNO Jawaid Ok. If it's using the firmware properly, then yes the firmware will be GNO Jawaid setup to use flowcontrol as set in the Control Panel "Printer" settings. FredW GS This works completely with a dot matrix printer...but when I send it to FredW GS my laser printer, with the same GS control panel setting as with Snowterm... FredW GS it doesn't work. AFL GaryJ Define "doesn't work". Do you get NO response at all? AFL Marty Is there some sort of "wake up" sequence you need for your printer? GNO Jawaid Where is your laser hooked up? Modem port? AppleTalk? WinkieJim What kind of LaserWriter? FredW GS No, neither require a startup... FredW GS The Laser printer is connected to my printer serial port. GNO Jawaid I'm out of ideas, unless it's a CR/LF problem. FredW GS "Doesn't work" means no output comes out.. I don't know if anything is FredW GS happening or if jjust some charcters are being lost...enough to mess it up FredW GS to the point where my INterpreter doesn't know it is Postscript. AFL Marty Can you get your printer to work under P8? AFL GaryJ Good question, Marty AFL GaryJ Some laser printers don't work in normal text modes (like from P8) FredW GS I don't know Marty...I haven't tried it from P8. AFL Marty How about a Super Serial Card? Do you have one of those? GNO Jawaid You're sending it PostScript files, then. FredW GS I HAVE sent it normal text (non-postscript) from Snowterm...do problem. FredW GS do=no. FredW GS I am trying to send it both normal text and Postscript... FredW GS With Snowterm both normal text and POSTSCRIPT work fine...from my program FredW GS neither does. WinkieJim What kind Of laser printer? FredW GS A PCPI LaserImage 1030 FredW GS Although with that SAME program (mine) I can send normal and postscript (of FredW GS course AS normal text) to my dot matrix printer. FredW GS As far as handshaking that is all taken care of transparently though? GNO Jawaid Yes, handshaking is dealt with okay. LL AndyW Sounds to me like there might be a problem related to the high bit not being LL AndyW set or clear. This type of thing can affect some printers.. GNO Jawaid Or the high bit being set... GNO Jawaid BASICs have an annoying habit of setting the high bit on data going to a GNO Jawaid port or the screen. IT's hangover from earlier Apple II days when they GNO Jawaid didn't know better. :-) See if there's a an option in the printer GNO Jawaid to strip high bits (probably a DIP switch). GMTA! :-) FredW GS Interesting Jawaid...I will check that...I wish I could SEE exactly what was FredW GS going on. AFL GaryJ Sounds like something to check out, Fred (what Jawaid and Andy said :) AFL GaryJ Ok, interesting problem, Fred. Let us know what happens. FredW GS Come to think of it...MAB saves its source with the hi bit set..that'd FredW GS really screw Postscript up. LL AndyW Since I'm working on LLUCE, does anyone have any questions relating to it?? GNO Jawaid LLUCE? LL AndyW And, don't ask when it'll be released.. That's not my end... AFA Jay can we ask what it is? :) FredW GS That was my question! :) LL AndyW It's a replacement for the older ACOS language used by GBBS.. GNO Jawaid Tell me it runs in 16-bit native mode under GS/OS... LL AndyW Not yet, but it's in the mill being converted.. GNO Jawaid Let me know when you need to do GNO compatibility testing :-) AFL GaryJ Yeah, I knew there would be some people interested in that :) AFC DYAJim A good GS BBS language would be great LL AndyW I'v been considering converting it to C, but I'm not all that well versed in C LL AndyW yet, so that step isn't at all close.. LL AndyW I have the basic outline for the GS version just about done, but I was more LL AndyW interested in questions or suggestions for the 8 bit version.. Hari Figg What are the improvements over GBBS? LL AndyW The list is long... GNO Jawaid (I wish ProDOS 8 would go away sometimes...) LL AndyW One small comparison.. ACOS takes about 1:45 to compile a 25k text segment. LL AndyW This is on a //e, to a 3.5 disk. LL AndyW The same size segment compiled with LLUCE takes 7 seconds. LL AndyW This 7 seconds includes loading the compiler which is an overlay.. GNO Jawaid I presume it's not a file of semicolons, like the Turbo Pascal timings are. :) LL AndyW No. It's the logon segment. Basically the same for both systems, but with LL AndyW changes so it would run under the LLUCE kernel (which has NO drivespecs).. Hari Figg It has been sooo long I don't remember (and have lost the file) what LLUCE's Hari Figg features were? LL AndyW So all a:'s had to be replaced with program/..., so it's actually a little LL AndyW larger for the LLUCE segments. LL AndyW At this time, variables can have 4 character names, 24 bit math (no floats yet) LL AndyW and, no arrays yet. That stuff will be in the GS version.. AFC DYAJim sounds very powerful Andy AFL GaryJ This is something that you'd probably get a good response on over in ACM. Have you been talking AFL GaryJ about it over there? (I haven't read the boards there in a while) LL AndyW Actually Jawaid, a file of semicolons would compile at about the same speed LL AndyW on both ACOS and LLUCE since the token table isn't searched.. LL AndyW It's been mentioned, but not much response. I have to get with Lance about LL AndyW having a conference about it.. AFL GaryJ I'm sure there are tons of GBBS users that would like to give you some input. LL AndyW I figured I'd bring it up here since this was about telecommunications.. LL AndyW Mainly, I was looking for more input about what others want to see in it.. AFL GaryJ I think it is good to bring up here, but I had just wondered if you had any response over AFL GaryJ in ACM. LL AndyW There was some, but nothing that was of much signifigance. Any suggentions LL AndyW had already been either added, or put off until the GS version, or not viable.. AFL GaryJ I think anyone would welcome a IIGS version. (But, it's good to remember AFL GaryJ the ProDOS 8 users, remember what Sandy said about all the IIc users AFL GaryJ in her user's group thirsting for IIc software!) AFL GaryJ I have a question (telecommunications, of course :) Matt DTS Howdy. I had a few minutes free between sessions and thought I'd stop by. AFL GaryJ Sessions? :) Matt DTS I'm participating in some invitiation-only sessions for forthcoming Apple technology with some font Matt DTS developers today and tomorrow. :) AFL GaryJ Well, my question is an old one. I don't know that I have ever found AFL GaryJ accurate information on where to obtain a Zilog manual. I think the AFL GaryJ last phone number that was mentioned here was someone's personal AFL GaryJ answering machine, somewhere in California :) AFL GaryJ ("Hello, this is Susan. I cannot come to the phone right now.... :) AFA Jay Did you try the 1-800 directory? AFL GaryJ No, I haven't, Jay. AFA Jay who knows, they might actually have one. AFL GaryJ I have the AMD manuals, but Matt tells me they aren't accurate in terms AFL GaryJ of everything one needs to program directly to the hardware. Hari Figg Is there any way to change the speed of a //c+ using software? AFC DYAJim Deja vu :) AFC DYAJim Look at the IIC+ discussion in misc. dev topics, Hari.. Hari Figg I take it this has been asked before? AFC DYAJim It's got some info; I don't know if there's enough, but there's some :) Matt DTS The real answer is "Buy the Apple IIc Plus Technical Reference" which has many pages on this Matt DTS subject. AFA Jay Well, there's some info in the 9/15/92 chat log. Matt DTS The folder is full of discussion for someone who didn't think the manual was worth it, and... Matt DTS ...subsequently spent many hours of his time trying to avoid purchasing it. :) Hari Figg I don't have a //c+ just a friend with a question. AFL GaryJ The person who asked the question before was AFL Marty, and he tells me AFL GaryJ that he has never solved the problem. AFL GaryJ (on the IIc+) Hari Figg Jeez. You'ld thought I asked for the combination to the Bank of England. GNO Jawaid You wouldn't want it, not with the money crisis they just had :-) AFL GaryJ I'll have to find a IIc+ manual, I guess :) (I'm very curious)