America Online APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG Tuesday, July 6, 1993 10:00 p.m. Eastern Time Topic: Telecommunications Programming Forum Leader: Gary Jacobson (AFL GaryJ) AFL GaryJ Welcome to the Apple II Development Forum! AFL GaryJ Tonight, our topic is Telecommunications Programming. AFL GaryJ We have such a large crowd this evening, I think we had better take turns in our AFL GaryJ questions and comments :) AFL GaryJ (The summertime vacations are taking it's toll) AFL GaryJ (Or something) AFL GaryJ So, has anyone been twiddling with their modem lately? AFL GaryJ Hi Matt AFA AndyW Hi Matt.. Matt DTS Howdy. AFL GaryJ +++ AFL GaryJ ATH0 AFC DYAJim +++ AFA AndyW Twiddling in what way Gary?? AFL GaryJ Programming wise, of course :) AFA AndyW Well Gary, you know that communications programming is what I do... AFA AndyW Hi Dan.. DanP18 GREETINGS. AFL GaryJ Hi Dan AFL GaryJ Tonight our topic is communications programming, Dan. DanP18 (Sorry, didn't mean to shout. Been in DOS 3.3 recently) AFL GaryJ :) AFL GaryJ That'll do it :) AFL GaryJ We've just opened things up to questions/comments, and so far the queue is empty :) DanP18 ? AFL GaryJ Go ahead, Dan DanP18 How come nobody has written a spiffy grphics type front end for AO? AFC DYAJim who says nobody has DanP18 Where is it? AFL GaryJ Because AOL won't agree to support it, mostly. AFL GaryJ (Or to go along with independant development) AFL GaryJ A lot of people have offered to do it. AFL GaryJ (for free, even) DanP18 Add me to the list. AFL GaryJ But, AOL says no. AFL GaryJ It would be nice, for sure. AFL GaryJ The Apple II software is way behind the times. DanP18 Oh, well. AFL GaryJ There is a long list of people just like you. AFL GaryJ Any other communications topics? AFA AndyW Matt, when will System 6.0.1 be available ONLINE <- makes it comm question.. AFL GaryJ (I'll go for that :) Matt DTS When it gets there. AFL GaryJ When it gets to AOL (is the likely answer :) AFL GaryJ Yep :) AFA AndyW <- wondering if it has been sent yet.. AFL GaryJ We have to wait for the official licensed version to arrive at AOL headquarters, and then AFL GaryJ someone there uploads it. AFL GaryJ Good question, Andy. Is there a perscribed lag time between the time the software ships AFL GaryJ with the people who charge bucks for it, and the time it can hit electronic distribution channels? AFL Marty banner sighted Matt DTS Not to my knowledge. AFL GaryJ Good timing AFL GaryJ (On the banner) AFL GaryJ We'll see if it does any good. AFA AndyW <- doesn't see banners.. AFL GaryJ Thanks, Matt. (Sure seems to be taking it's time to get to AOL) Matt DTS No one has it yet. Matt DTS (no licensees, that is) AFL GaryJ Turn up the brightness knob on your monitor, Andy :) AFA AndyW <- banners turned off AFL GaryJ Ok, anything else? AFA AndyW Hi Doug.. DAGwyn Hi Matt DTS Long time no see, Doug. AFC SteveB Is this where I can get Windows 3.1 progr AFL Marty STEVE AFC SteveB amming support? ;D Hey everyone AFC SteveB MARTY AFL GaryJ Hi Steve, DAGwyn AFL GaryJ Yeah, right, Steve. AFL GaryJ (You type like a windows programmer :) AFA AndyW Hi Steve.. AFC SteveB Hay, eye kan tipe fine! (: AFL GaryJ We're talking about telecommunications programming tonight. AFL GaryJ (the topic) DAGwyn ? Is "Spectrum" particularly better than, say, MouseTalk? AFL GaryJ Has anyone successfully ordered the Zilog chip info for the IIGS serial port? AFC SteveB When's the GSOS driver for internal modems coming out? :) Matt DTS I've seen it, Gary. AFL Marty When it's done. Matt DTS Doug: Spectrum uses the desktop tools and is a full desktop program. MouseTalk is a P8 program. DAGwyn GaryJ, I got the SCC ship info from a databook. Matt DTS Steve: Apple's not writing one. AFC SteveB I know, Matt. AFL GaryJ I've tried to get it. All I have is the Advanced Micro Devices stuff, which I understand is not AFC SteveB (Just wondering if anyone was working on such a beast, Matt :) AFL GaryJ as good as what Zilog puts out. But the last time a Zilog number was AFL Marty Maybe someone is. Maybe it's confidential. :) AFL GaryJ "shared" here in the ADV chat, I tried to call it and got someone's house answering machine AFL GaryJ in California :) Matt DTS Steve Gunn has it, but he's not here tonight. AFC SteveB LOL :) DAGwyn Z8530 SCC Serial Communications Controller (Zilog doc) runs 21 pages. AFL GaryJ Does it have a phone number or address with it, DAGwyn? DAGwyn If you have my SCC8530.h header, most of the necessary info is summarized there AFC SteveB It says at the bottom, Gary, "We won't supply our phone number or address, AFL GaryJ Probably, Steve :) AFC SteveB 'cuz if you can't figure it out with a 21-page documentation, go program AFC SteveB Windows!" AFC SteveB :) DAGwyn As I said I got it from a Zilog data book, no phone # on the copied pages. ... DAGwyn If you're desperate, I don't suppose Zilog would mind my sending you a copy. DAGwyn Email me your name and address.. AFL GaryJ I could do that. (I'd also like to have the order info for future chat reference too :) AFL GaryJ I've been trying to come by it for a long time. AFC SteveB "sEnD mE tHe ZiLoG iNfOrMatIoN oR sOmEoNe Is GoNnA gEt HuRt" Matt DTS (Where's that "ignore" button again?) AFL GaryJ :) AFC SteveB :P AFL GaryJ Looks like Steve is phasing in and out of DOS 3.3. DAGwyn ? Anyone working on TELNET or FTP over SLIP? (FTP would be useful.) AFL GaryJ Do you know, Andy? Matt DTS Is anyone getting instant messages from me? I'm not getting any responses. AFA AndyW Do I know what Gary? AFA AndyW I haven't gotten any.. AFL Marty To whom did you send them? AFL GaryJ I haven't gotten any either. Matt DTS Doug and Jim. AFL GaryJ (Don't know who you're sending them to :) AFL GaryJ Andy, the answer to DAGwyn's question. AFL GaryJ (That's what I was asking) AFA AndyW I don't know.. I don't have direct access to any of what was mentioned.. AFL GaryJ Ok, I guess nobody here knows. AFL GaryJ Anyone have any off-topic questions or comments tonight? (We seem to be going full steam on the AFL GaryJ telecom discussion :) AFA AndyW LLUCE (or whatever it will be called now) should have FTP eventually... AFC DYAJim sorry I was afk :) DAGwyn ? What is LLUCE? AFL Marty What's FTP? AFA AndyW A replacement for ACOS/GBBS.. DAGwyn FTP is Internet File Transfer Protocol AFC SteveB [Smashing Pumpkins come out with a new CD on July 27th] AFL Marty :marking date on calendar: AFC SteveB :) AFL GaryJ Pumpkins in July? DAGwyn Well, gotta boogie -- CUL OM AFL GaryJ Goodnight, DAGwyn AFA AndyW See you around Doug... AFL GaryJ Thanks for dropping in. AFL Marty Hi Andy AFL GaryJ Hi AFA Andy AFC SteveB Hey, Andy!! How's your ear doing? AFA AndyW Hi Andy! AFA Andy Hi MartMan, Gary :) AFA Andy Steve, Andy :) AFL GaryJ Tonight's topic is telecom programming (or whatever else is on your mind :) AFA Andy I hope that as soon as I learn a little more to do a FAX program, but please AFA Andy don't hold your breath ;) AFA AndyW Hey Andy, I'v moved to Cincinatti.. Living with Scottie now... AFL GaryJ That would be neat :) AFA Andy Cool, Andy :) AFA Andy Take good care of her. AFA AndyW We should find AFA Andrew, and have all 3 of us in one room! ;)_ AFL GaryJ We could use a good IIGS fax program. AFA Andy I agree, Gary. AFA Andy Andy, don't you think it's confusing enough now ;) AFA AndyW We could use ANY IIGS fax program! AFA AndyW Nope! AFL GaryJ So, holding our breath doesn't work, eh? (hmmm, what else :) AFA Andy :) AFC SteveB Yeah, get AFC Steve, AFC SteveY and I in the same room :) AFL GaryJ Hi DizzyLizy AFA Andy Hi Dizzy :) DizzyLizy Hi All AFA Andy Well, someone needs the phone. I can't wait to get moved into my own place AFL Marty Maybe you can have it ready by the time 6.0.1 makes its debut online. :) AFA Andy again. AFA Andy Nigh guys! AFC SteveB Seeya, Andy! AFL GaryJ Goodnight, Andy AFA Andy I doubt that Marty :) AFL Marty Bye Andy AFL GaryJ Yeah, that's true, Marty :) AFA Andy Night AFA AndyW Bye Andy.. AFC SteveB [Andy'll have v2.0 out by then, Marty. :)] AFL GaryJ :) AFL Marty lol AFL GaryJ Sad, but true. AFA AndyW I wonder where Jawaid is.. AFL GaryJ This room usually fills up around 11:15, for some reason :) AFC SteveB Lighting off fireworks? Matt DTS afk AFC DYAJim ? AFL GaryJ People must think it's earlier than it is with the longer daylight hours. AFL GaryJ GA, Jim AFC DYAJim This is a question from James - AFC DYAJim he's trying to set a printer or modem device to no-wait mode, but it keeps AFC DYAJim giving error $22: bad call parameter; the error it would give if the printer AFC DYAJim or modem was a block device. the same code works fine with .CONSOLE. AFC DYAJim any ideas? AFA AndyW Won't work AFL GaryJ Hi Eric AFA AndyW Serial port drivers don't support no-wait mode.. Sheppy Hola! Que tal? AFA AndyW Hi Eric.. AFC SteveB Asi Asi, y tu? AFL GaryJ Bastante bien, e tu, Como estas? AFC DYAJim why don't they, andy? AFL Marty dobrze AFA AndyW Don't ask me! I didn't write them! AFC DYAJim is there any way to ask the serial port if it has a character then? Sheppy Took 20 minutes to sign on tonight... :( AFC SteveB ---------============[@}}} Softy AFC DYAJim so you don't have to wait around; i.e. so you can go to the next device? AFA AndyW Status call.. AFC DYAJim what status call? AFA AndyW Hang on.. AFC Softy (arrgh... I'm on the node fom Hell too :/) AFA AndyW Grabbing book.. AFL Marty ---===[}}} Softy AFL GaryJ Hi Softy AFC Softy Hi Gary :) AFL GaryJ Welcome. We're doing telecom programming tonight, and Jim has a question on the floor. AFL GaryJ AFA AndyW is doing his best to step on it. AFC Softy Steve {{]====---- ----====[}} Marty AFC Softy (double barrel pie shooter :) Matt DTS Generated devices don't support no-wait mode. AFA AndyW Use the DStatus call.. AFL GaryJ Yeah, but not through a generated device. AFA AndyW Bit 5.. Matt DTS See GS/OS TN #13. AFC DYAJim okay, thanks. AFA AndyW Is the Receive buffer NOT empty flag.. AFA AndyW Hi Larry.. AFL GaryJ Ok, that was a good question :) AFL GaryJ (Kept our minds occupied for a few minutes) AFA AndyW Minds? What are those?? :) AFL GaryJ Uh... AFL GaryJ Uh... AFL GaryJ (I don't remember, actually) AFL GaryJ Hi JoyceAnn AFA AndyW Hi Joyce! JoyceAnn S Hello everyone AFA AndyW Well, I'm going to go look around.. If anything interesting happens, or there AFA AndyW is a question that I might be able to help with, just send an IM.. AFL GaryJ Thanks for coming, Andy AFA AndyW See you all later.. AFL GaryJ Ok (got a phone call, sorry) AFL GaryJ Hi Frank BCS Frank Hi, Gary, y'all :) AFL GaryJ You talked about telecomunications tonight in your chat too, didn't you? BCS Frank That was the plan, but it went free form. AFL GaryJ (Pretend I had another 'm' there) AFL GaryJ Kind of like here, eh? :) BCS Frank Telecomm's a grand topic, esp. the social effects, BCS Frank we'll get back to it again. BCS Frank :) AFL GaryJ Well, that's one thing everyone here has in common. We all have modems :) JoyceAnn S ;) AFL GaryJ Just not everyone is programming them :) Sheppy Thank you for that astonishing point, Gary. :) AFL GaryJ You're very welcome, Eric :) AFL GaryJ (Anytime) Sheppy <-- Just found out I'm poor enough to get a 50% discount on my local phone AFL GaryJ Hi Barnabas Sheppy bill. :) BCS Frank Strikes straight to the core, ehh? :) Sheppy Hey, Greg. Sheppy Sure does. Barnabas Hi folks... been trying and trying to log on, but it wasn't working... AFL GaryJ Lot's of people had that kind of problem tonight, Greg. BCS Frank Programming? We don't talk about that at the BCS chats too often... Barnabas Hi Jim. AFC DYAJim ihi Greg! BCS Frank but we do have a chat on Fuzzy logic coming up.] Sheppy We don't talk about it all that often here, either. :) BCS Frank I think the nodes are restless tonight. Barnabas Glad to know they're not discriminating against me personally (yet).:) Sheppy Greg's an expert on fuzzy logic. :) Barnabas [Pulling flame thrower out of closet] Barnabas Gee, telecommunications... how ironic! Barnabas (just looking at topic) AFC DYAJim if modem and printer are generated devices, how come they have drivers AFL GaryJ What a coincidence, eh Greg? AFL GaryJ :) AFC DYAJim in the drivers folder? just wondering.. BCS Frank telecomm, ironic? How so? Sheppy Notice how the conversation dies when Greg shows up? :) Sheppy Those are port drivers, Jim. Sheppy Not device drivers. Difference. AFL GaryJ Well, it is after 11 now. I think it's just that Greg happens to show up when the chat is Barnabas Ironic, because it took me FOREVER to get into AOL tonight... so I missed most BCS Frank others use starboard drivers? AFL GaryJ officially over :) Matt DTS Check the auxiliary type. Those are the ones that show up in the "Direct Connect" control panel. Barnabas of the conference... Sheppy The port drivers are for the Print Manager, not for GS/OS. Barnabas ... on how wonderful telecommunications is! AFC DYAJim oh, ok :) Sheppy Nobody ever said telecomm is wonderful, Greg. :) Sheppy 'Least, I never did. Barnabas Well, if they did, I missed it anyway :( Barnabas :) BCS Frank Sure it is! AFC SteveB I gotta split-- goodnight, everyone! AFC DYAJim (sorry - I was afk talking to James smith (I ran out of outlets so I couldn't Sheppy Ciao, Steve. BCS Frank Bye, Steve :) AFC DYAJim use the cordless by the computer :) and then my AOL window limit overflowed AFC DYAJim and AOL overwrote itself) but I'm back now :) AFL GaryJ Bye, Steve BCS Frank .... lull alert .... Sheppy Weeellll, I guess I'll take off then so the interesting conversation can Sheppy resume. :) AFL GaryJ What? :) AFL GaryJ Hi PenNPixel BCS Frank What what? PenNPixel Hi AFL Sheppy Come on, Gary, don't pretend y'all aren't waiting for me to leave... :) AFL GaryJ "What" about Eric leaving. AFL GaryJ Nice sceen name. PenNPixel Thanks! AFC Softy Shep.... I'm waiting for the dancing girls afterwards... ;) AFL GaryJ I suppose it has something to do with graphics? :) AFL GaryJ You wouldn't be a graphics programmer type, would you? Sheppy Too bad I'll miss that, Softy. I'd better go plod through hours of homework. Sheppy Don't you wish you were in summer session? :( PenNPixel Yes & no - I'm an agent. I help book authors & multimedia developers find publishers AFC Softy =:o (Ack! Summer school?) Sheppy Thought for the day: "Homework: just say no!" :) AFC Softy (Shep... 17 straight quarters at Cal Poly was enough for me thankyouverymuch :) Sheppy Yeah, summer school. I knew I wouldn't be doing anything worthwhile anyway, Sheppy so I figured I'd get some course credit while I accomplished nothing worth- Sheppy while. :) Sheppy 1 straight quarter is really all I can handle. I'm bouncing off the walls Sheppy here. Sheppy Fortunately, the quarters here usually aren't straight. They're crooked as Sheppy all get out... :) Sheppy I'm outta here! AFC Softy :) PenNPixel I just had my first day of summer session - blah AFL GaryJ Fun :) Barnabas Uploaded new copy of my Joystick Adjustor CDA earlier today... AFL GaryJ Jay has been dying to get back to school, eh Jay? Barnabas Has a great new feature: it doesn't blast memory anymore! AFA Jay I'm very excited actually :) BCS Frank I've gotta cool of the modem.... AFL GaryJ We'll see if you hold the same enthusiasm come September or October :) AFA Jay It's a new place, I'll love it for a while :) PenNPixel What do you two study? AFA Jay maybe November :) Barnabas (I was accidentally linking in part of the ProDOS 8 version of a library). Barnabas That's what I get for making dual-environment libraries, I guess... :) Barnabas So, was Jawaid here tonight? AFL GaryJ Not so far. AFL GaryJ He usually shows up around now :) Barnabas Of course, he's working on some intense debugging program, right? The one he's Barnabas been looking for beta-testers for... AFL GaryJ I think so. AFL GaryJ Maybe that's what he's doing. AFL GaryJ (now) AFL GaryJ If he ever shows up tonight, we can ask him. Barnabas Anyone talking about the Apple layoff news yet? AFL GaryJ I haven't heard about it. Tell us more. Barnabas (and how it might affect the Apple II?) Barnabas Newspaper says 2500 layoffs... let me grab it... AFL GaryJ You mean, they *might* get rid of the Apple II line?? AFL GaryJ :) Barnabas Says 16% of entire (worldwide) Apple workforce is being layed off. AFL GaryJ What reasons are given? (if any) Matt DTS People want computers to cost less than they really do. Barnabas "...the work-force reductions are part of a braod restructuring of the company" Barnabas -Apple spokeswoman Kate Paisley AFL GaryJ Any specific branches or areas targeted? Barnabas "In recent months, Apple has had to lower the prices on its Macintosh...[etc.] AFL GaryJ Ah, Matt is right. Matt DTS It will affect everything. Barnabas "...to compete with... Windows..." Barnabas "Windows... took away a key advantage of the 'user-friendly' Macintosh." Matt DTS I didn't see this coming from any Apple people. Barnabas (and, I would guess, the loss of the lawsuit against that criminal MicroSoft JoyceAnn S except that using Windows is ...nothing... like working with an Apple IIGS.. . Barnabas probably stacked the deck). JoyceAnn S It's much more difficult as you all probably know. Barnabas I've been quoting from the newspaper, sorry Matt. Let me see the source... Barnabas Ah... "analysts", including "Michael Murphy, editor of the California Barnabas Technology Stock Letter in Half Moon Bay." Matt DTS Ah. A man so rich on his own stock advice that he publishes a newsletter for a living. :) Barnabas There is that. :) AFL GaryJ Hi Rabeet Barnabas Still, the basic premise, declining margins, remains essentially correct. Matt DTS Well, if we're not really in danger of doing more programming stuff, I'll probably take off. Rabeet howdy Matt DTS Good night. Barnabas So, what all got discussed tonight? AFL GaryJ Let's see.... AFL GaryJ Asked about Zilog data sheets.... AFL GaryJ Asked about System 6.0.1 AFL GaryJ Jim had a question from James... Barnabas Oh, what about 6.0.1? Barnabas (It's been out what, almost a month now? and not online yet?) JoyceAnn S Well I'm gonna check a few other things. I'll "see" all of you later. . . Barnabas I guess the answer was "We're still waiting"... sigh... Barnabas Later, JoyceAnn S. JoyceAnn S Bye. . . Ken r S ? AFL GaryJ GA, Ken Ken r S what are we still waiting for...jumped in late...:) Barnabas For System 6.0.1 to show up on AOL. AFL GaryJ Just a sec... Barnabas (I would have sprung for it, if I had known it would take so long... Barnabas but, of course, I keep telling myself "It'll just be there any day, so it Barnabas doesn't make sense to go spend money." :) AFL GaryJ We have to wait for the official licensed copy to arrive at AOL headquarters before AFL GaryJ it can appear online. Someone at AOL will upload it to our library when it arrives. AFL GaryJ According to Matt, no online service has it yet. Barnabas And you know how far it is from California to the east coast... those poor Barnabas ponies are going as fast as they can... :) AFL GaryJ Yeah, you see, there's this guy on roller skates, and.... AFL GaryJ ...he had a slight problem around the Grand Canyon... Barnabas And he works for Dominos, so he has to keep stopping to deliver... AFL GaryJ :) AFL GaryJ Yep, that's the same guy. Barnabas And anyway, those guys writing out the disks can't get enough magnetic pens to Barnabas work more than 2 hours a day... Barnabas Anyway, so how is T2, Jim? Any changes since the release version? AFL GaryJ Actually, they did them all, and then had to do them over again. Quality control said that AFL GaryJ the HFS format they were in would not boot correctly on the IIGS. Barnabas Especially since they were on single-sided floppies, and they used the wrong Barnabas side... AFC DYAJim not yet Greg :-( Barnabas How about giving me a hand so I don't have to disassemble the whole thing? ;) AFC DYAJim You've got the debugging labels - those shoudl help ;) AFC DYAJim Andy supposedly did that. AFC DYAJim I am gona resume work on T2 tho very soon. Barnabas Really? Why? AFC DYAJim First I will write the sample modules; then document the IPC; Barnabas (Andy) AFC DYAJim then work on new modules and get 1.2d1 out the door in a few weeks. AFC DYAJim Why, because Andy is Andy :) AFC DYAJim that was awhile back tho. AFC DYAJim I guess the debug labels helped him a lotl. Barnabas Oh, of course! How silly of me!