Subj: How to Express a File??? 89-08-02 21:02:16 EST From: BigAl35 Msgs: 21 (89-09-13) Just got my copy of Version 5.0 from dealer. Since he copied his I could not get any documantation. (Not yet available). I have noted on this board referance to express loading files and note that there is an Express Tool on Ver 5.0. Question....how is it used? .............Al Subj: Re: How to Express a File??? 89-08-02 21:04:41 EST From: JoshThomps You have to have a special program that expresses the file for you so that it can be ExpressLoaded. Unfortunately, us "normal" people don't have this utility yet, and anyways, it's a programmer's utility that you'll need to get thru ADPA. Subj: Re: How to Express a File??? 89-08-02 22:37:40 EST From: HyperRam Huh!? You mean right now-every piece of 16 bit software for the IIGS is NOT expressed! Gee, that would be fast... Ram Subj: You got it RAM... 89-08-03 02:33:32 EST From: A2Pro Tim Hyper, That's right, basically NO commercially available GS software (except for 5.0 itself) has been EXPRESS'd. There is only one exception that I know of. If you have APW or ORCA, then you can find out if a file is EXPRESS'd by using DUMPOBJ and looking for a header with a segment named "~ExpressLoad". Please do _NOT_ confuse the ExpressLoad file in the System folder with the EXPRESS tool for APW. The file in the System Folder is what LOADS express'd files and the APW tool is what creates express'd files. Got it? :-) Therefore, the file that the guy starting this folder THOUGHT was the ExpressLoad creation tool is NOT. It's the piece of system software that actually LOADS Express'd files. There's a big difference. Tim S. Subj: Re: How to Express a File??? 89-08-03 18:42:56 EST From: BigAl35 Thanks for enlightening me on "Expressing" files. .............Al Subj: Well... 89-08-03 22:33:58 EST From: Matt DTS ...actually, there is at least one commercial program we know of. AppleWorks GS 1.0v2 ships pre-Expressed. That's how come it loads so fast with 5.0 right off the bat. --Matt Subj: That's the exception I mentioned 89-08-04 02:55:49 EST From: A2Pro Tim Yep, I mentioned (second sentance, three messages PRIOR to this one) that I knew of only one exception and that's the one I was referring to. :-) Tim S. Subj: Re: How to Express a File??? 89-08-05 13:42:05 EST From: HyperRam How did AppleWorks GS get expressed if 5.0 wasn't out yet? Ram Subj: Being a Developer has its privs 89-08-05 15:30:21 EST From: GuS Grafix Ram, Rank hath it's privileges... or in this case being a registered developer has it's privileges. Developers get certain things earlier (under non-disclosure, of course) than the general public, so that they can be certain their applications will work with upcoming system software, etc. Marian Subj: Re: How to Express a File??? 89-08-06 09:07:07 EST From: HyperRam Yeah, but didn't AWGS v1.0v2 come BEFORE AppleFest May? (I THINK) Ram Subj: AWGS v 1.02 release date... 89-08-06 14:27:47 EST From: GuS Grafix Nope, Ram, it began shipping at the time of AFest Boston. In fact, I got my copy at AFest directly from Steve Carlton (cuz I was a beta tester for it)--which is why I remember this so clearly. The actual copy from Claris came in the mail about a week later. Marian Subj: Re: How to Express a File??? 89-08-07 00:10:10 EST From: JSchober Anyway, Ram, it so happens that files that have been expressed are totally compatible with previous Loaders (the ExpressLoad segment is simply ignored), so they could express it then (using a beta System 5.0 system), and when Sys 5.0 hit the streets for everyone -- now -- it instantly becomes sped up. Neat, huh? Subj: Couple of Questions 89-08-08 17:03:52 EST From: AFA Parik A few questions on GS/OS 3.0... 1) how does one differentiate between ProDOS 16 and GS/OS, to see whether System Disk 4.0+ is active or v3.2 and lower. 2) are there any benefits in using GS/OS calls versus ProDOS 16? Besides the obvious 4k filename lengths. Can P16 calls access multiple hard drive partitions? Will it die if it access's a resource file? 3) is it better having one large file for a program with multiple load segments to take advantage of expressload, or to split up the program into a dozen (etc) files? 4) does the system itself use any toolbox calls which have been patched using the TS files or the TOOLxx files? Or are the START.GS.OS, GS.OS, etc files independant of the newer functions of the toolbox? Subj: A little off topic... 89-08-08 19:37:11 EST From: AFL Dyfet Parik, First, there is a version ID call in all versions of GS/OS and ProDOS 16. This could be used to quickly identify what version is running. Secondly, besides the larger filenames, in many instances, the new class-1 calls are used to pass more parameters for various GS/OS functions than were originally defined in the class-0 call. For example, the Class-1 create call has a parameter to pre-allocate file space. The class-0 parameter block for various calls were all fixed and could not be extended to support new features. Dyfet Subj: topic 89-08-08 19:50:18 EST From: AFA Parik no other place to put it :), don't want to create a folder just for a few messages. Hmm, still a bit mystified on the _GetVersion call. Is it according to OS, or System Disk type? I guess I'll go try it out with the excerciser and try to find all the OS types. Subj: Parik's Questions 89-08-09 01:00:04 EST From: AndyBoy1 Parik, (2) (Can one still use p16 calls) We tried to pack as much functionality into the GS/OS versions of ProDOS 16 calls. However there are places where you will indeed lose out. The official recommendation is to use GS/OS Class 1 Calls in all new programs. (3) (Should a program be broken up?) I don't think so. ExpressLoad is very good at streaming large sections of code out of the OMF and if you break up the program you'll just add the overhead of opening and closing all those files. --Andy Subj: Re: How to Express a File??? 89-08-23 02:00:46 EST From: BurgerBill I was wondering if anyone knows if ExpressLoad has the capability to express a file with a $F6 relocation record? I have some old programs that when I run the Express utility, that Express will give me an "Unsupported Load type" error. Is there a work around or do I have to live with the fact that some files just simply can't be "Expressed"? Subj: $F6... 89-08-23 04:15:57 EST From: A2Pro Tim Bill - I don't really know if you can Express a $F6 record or not. There have been some subtle changes to the Express tool since the seeding, so hopefully you'll have the "real" version before long and can try it yourself. Tim S. Subj: Express is now shipping!!! 89-09-12 22:53:48 EST From: A2Pro Tim OK gang, those of you using either APW or ORCA can call APDA and order the real version of Express now! (for those of you not quite sure what Express is or does, it's an APW/ORCA utility that converts existing files into ones that take advantage of the new ExpressLoader found on System Disk 5.0 - in English, it makes your applications, NDA's, CDA's, EXE's, etc load MUCH faster than ever before!). Express is just one of the many new tools found on the "Programming Tools & Interfaces for APW" package which APDA started shipping today! To order, call 1-800-282-2732 (that's 1-800-282-APDA) and ask for part number: A0228LL/A For more information about this package, please see the discussion under the "Programming Environments" area of this forum... Tim Swihart APW Product Manager Subj: The Zipper 89-09-12 23:47:23 EST From: AFA Parik prosel 16 v7.2+ also has a utility called "ZIP" which will take omf 2.0 files and put it into expressload format. Pretty neat! Funny too, it'll create a temporary file called ZZzzzzippped (something like that) while converting. Subj: ZIP's in Merlin 16+ also... 89-09-13 00:07:49 EST From: A2Pro Tim The ZIP utility is also part of Merlin 16+ now. I found a slight "glitch" (not really a bug, but not ideal situation either) in it and a new version should be out RSN. Express'ing (or ZIP'ing) a file adds a new segment to the beginning of the file. ZIP was naming that segment "ExpressLoad" when it technically should have been "~ExpressLoad" (maybe there's an "er" on the end, I'm not sure, the problem was the missing "~"). Apple's FIRST version of Express (which never shipped via APDA) did NOT have the "~", so this was an easy mistake to make. We caught the problem, added the "~" long ago. As soon as I used ZIP, I spotted the difference and reported it. Obviously, this is a trivial fix and in no way degrades the value of ZIP! I've used ZIP and it's roughly as fast (maybe more, maybe less) as Express. I ran both from a hard drive (same hard drive) on the same original file (a bigggggg file) and the times were within fractions of a second. Either way you go is fine, as long as you're developing IIGS programs, I'm happy! Regardless of whose tools you use to do that! Tim S. Subj: OS Speedups and ExpressLoad 89-05-11 23:35:46 EST From: AndyBoy1 Msgs: 45 (89-07-06) I'm creating this folder for anyone who wants to discuss how the OPERATING SYSTEM got faster in 5.0. Toolbox info elsewhere. I'll start by introducing some new features. System Overhead Reduced The overall structure of GS/OS has been improved to accelerate call handling. This means that single-character-IO, for example, is now as fast or faster than the text tools. 3.5 " disks using "Scatter Read" This is a technique with which 3.5 disks of ANY interleave are read at an effective 1:1 rate. Writing still takes place in the interleave of the disk. SCSI Ram Resident Driver This all new SCSI driver is loaded from disk and consists of a SCSI.MANAGER which is in charge of the SCSI card, and two drivers: SCSIHD.DRIVER for hard disks and SCSICD.DRIVER for CD-Rom. This new driver is 3-5 times faster than the old one. New FileName capabilities in ProDOS FST Did anyone notice the lower-case filenames on the ProDOS volumes? ExpressLoad. What is expressload? Well, it's a modification to the load file format which permits much faster load times for programs. It varies from program to program but can result in load times 2-5 times faster than without. How does ExpressLoad work? ExpressLoad only works on files which have been "expressed". You can express an existing file, or you can use a linker which outputs expressed files. There are two major changes made when expressing a file. First, the segments are reordered with all statics at the front, and all dynamics in back. This minimizes head thrashing. Second, each segment is rewritted with a new format which allows the entire segment to be loaded with only two read calls, one for the code and one for the relocation info. Since GS/OS was always designed to work best with very large reads, this makes GS/OS run faster. Finally, a new "express" segment is added with "commonly used" information so the loader isn't always cruising the file looking for things. What programs can be expressed? Most existing programs can be expressed. The biggest problem is programs which use the Load/Unload Segment by Number calls. As mentioned above, segments are reordered so the numbers change! We recommend using Load by Name, or just use the automatic Jump Table loads. Much easier and no number dependencies. Is ExpressLoad compatible? ExpressLoad is FULLY FORWARD and BACKWARD compatible. An expressed program can still be run on 4.0, assuming it doesn't make any 5.0 calls or operations. And a non-expressed program will be loaded by 5.0, just slower. Well enough Jawin from Andy. Any questions? Subj: Re: OS Speedups and ExpressLoad 89-05-12 20:29:30 EST From: AFA Parik I noticed the lower case volumes/filenames, its only in the SFtools though, correct? Or does GS/OS else change 'em to lower case when doing stuff like _GetDirEntry? And will expresscompacter (whatever name) be distributed with any forthcomings versions of APW, in the event that we assume that any future versions of APW will be released, not in any case binding Apple to release a future version but merely in the possibility of one (not that we are assuming there would be one). Subj: Parik's Paragraph 89-05-12 21:02:59 EST From: Coach101 I think yoy have the hang of it Parik. That last paragraph demonstrates a definite ability to work for Apple and participate on ALPE :) Subj: Disk Block ALlocation 89-05-12 21:04:39 EST From: Coach101 All of this sounds great Andy! My one question, about FSTs really, is how does GS/OS allocate disk blocks on its storage mediums. If I have 200 _fragmented_ blocks at the beginning of a volume and go to _express_ a 100 block executable file, it would be nice if GS/OS's FSTs would attempt to find some contiguous space as opposed to scattering me all over the fragmented 100 blocks at the beginning of the volume. If I am fragmented it would seem that ExpressLoad and ScatterRead would not be able to ramp up to their capabilities. Subj: Re: OS Speedups and ExpressLoad 89-05-13 14:36:47 EST From: JeffDWoods ExpressLoad does its thing by optimizing the data in the load file, the program. ScatterRead should help with general disc read performance. To ensure that either is working at its greatest potential, optimize the volume. ProSel's BeachComber does a great job of that. Speaking of which, I think it would be a great idea for software publishers (especially those who publish copy-protected software) to optimize their master disks before duplication so that the applications load (& run in some cases) faster. Subj: Re: OS Speedups and ExpressLoad 89-05-13 15:13:19 EST From: Jump Long The new development tools will be available from APDA approximately the same time 5.0 is released... sometime mid-summer. --Jim Subj: Re: Upper lower case.. 89-05-13 22:11:50 EST From: DougMac Well acording to Matt D.'s comments on the Usenet feed, upper and lower case in file names is stored in the now defunct version/min.version bytes in the system directory entry, in a manor much like Appleworks did. Text environments like Orca can use the files as they are. I've also noticed that you can put high-ascii into filenames now, and those files can not be handled by text environments.. Subj: Re: OS Speedups and ExpressLoad 89-05-14 15:13:01 EST From: Matt DTS GS/OS has always allowed high ASCII in file names. The ProDOS file system does not, and will still either strip the high bits or return a syntax error (not sure which off-hand). --Matt Subj: how blocks are allocated 89-05-15 02:54:50 EST From: Dave Lyons The OS doesn't allocate blocks: FSTs do. I don't know how the ProDOS FST decided which block to allocate next. Subj: Re: OS Speedups and ExpressLoad 89-05-15 04:05:59 EST From: EyeStrain Just a question (really directed at Jump Long {How are ya, Jim?}): Wouldn't it make more sense for the APDA version to be available to developers BEFORE the general release? I, for one, am dying to get my hands on a copy!!! But I've heard rumors that pirated copies are on the loose that trash hard disks--all the more reason to get it through _authorized_ channels (APDA or a dealer...). Incidentally, why is the user documentation never available from APDA? I've had a GS since they came out (Remember Apple II DeskTop?), and since I get my updates through APDA, I've never even gotten documentation on the Finder (but I did get info on the changes made to toolsets, etc.). Not that anyone operating on all 8-bits really needs instructions. :) Subj: Re: OS Speedups and ExpressLoad 89-05-15 04:11:33 EST From: EyeStrain Uh, I guess that should be _16 bits_. ;) Subj: Block Allocation..... 89-05-15 20:34:30 EST From: Coach101 I knew that FSTs had to allocate the blocks (given the architecture described in the GS/OS Reference manual). Cant really explain why I made the comment I did in my question (must have had a _fouled_ plug in one of those 16-cylinders :) ). I am still curious as to the allocation technique that is used. If some deference is given to requests for multiple blocks, then Scatter Read could be more effective. By the way, given the existence of Scatter Read, is the complement (Gather Write) implemented? Subj: Block allocation 89-05-16 02:04:46 EST From: AndyBoy1 How are blocks allocated: If you are simply adding blocks to a file, one after another, the ProDOS FST simply finds the first free block on the volume. This works OK, actually better than you might think because multiple free blocks in clumps will be allocated one after another. However if you ever request multiple blocks added to a file (the best time for this is in the create call where you can specify the EOF) the FST will specifically look for a large free chunk in which the entire file would fit. Scatter read vs. scatter write: Scatter read is EXTREMELY timing dependent and "just makes it" on the read operation. Writing is even more timing dependent and there's just no way to do it. --Andy Subj: Re: OS Speedups and ExpressLoad 89-05-16 15:44:52 EST From: ShrinkIt I guess it wouldn't be possible to do the scatter read of a track, and then fill in the unused blocks on that track with the data which had to be written out and then write all the data out at once on a whole track? It would effectively take 2 complete revolutions of the track to write the entire track instead of waiting for block #NN to appear under the head -- just something to think about. The actual "fill-in" procedure might take a significant amount of time so you might have to wait another revolution, giving a total of 3 for any block operation, which might not be worth it. Subj: Re: OS Speedups and ExpressLoad 89-05-16 15:47:46 EST From: ShrinkIt Andy, Or, after reading, you could calculate the maximum amount of time it takes to fill the unused blocks (all of them-1, ie, 1 block used, the rest free, or don't bother reading the track just write it) and if the time it takes to do that is the time it takes for, say, 2 blocks to spin by the head, you'd start writing there. Yeah, I think scatter write is possible. When a block is written, what is the average amount of time (revolutions) for that block to appear beneath the head to write it? andy Subj: Re: OS Speedups and ExpressLoad 89-05-16 21:16:48 EST From: Montagne The real problem why 1:1 interleave cannot be achieved on write is that the write current circuit cannot be turned off fast enough to read the address marks on the next sector. Ray Subj: Why new APW tools AFTER 5.0 89-05-17 00:02:11 EST From: A2Pro Tim It's kinda hard to develop (and especially test) new tools for a System Disk that's not quite done yet... :-) Seriously though, the new tools are in the test/bug fix cycle and should be available shortly after 5.0. Our Testing group is a bunch of sticklers for details (thank heavens!) and they want the FINAL version of 5.0 to double-check the tools against!!! That means there's NO WAY we can release the new tools BEFORE 5.0 is done. If everything goes properly (like software schedules ALWAYSSSS do... ), the new tools should work fine with 5.0 final, and we should be able to send the tools into production with two weeks of 5.0's final release - it takes a while to get them through production, but we'll try to hurry there also. At AppleFest, we were telling folks that the new tools would be out "this Summer" (not "mid-Summer", just "this Summer"). That's as close as I intend to pinpoint it publicly at this time. And for those who were wondering - we were showing APW versions of Rez, DeRez, Express, and a new linker at AppleFest. All of those are going to be part of the new APW. Tim Swihart APW Product Manager Subj: DYN_SLOT_ARBITER 89-05-17 21:06:30 EST From: Coach101 In the GS/OS Reference (Volume 2) is described as to what it might do in the future. What does it do in 5.0? Subj: Supervisor Drivers With 5.0 89-05-17 21:10:30 EST From: Coach101 Mention is made of towo "hypothetical" supervisory drivers (SCSI and SCC {Serial Communications Chip} in the GS/OS Reference Manual (Volume 2). What supervisory drivers are there in GS/OS 5.0? If one wanted/needed to write a driver for the internal communications ports (1, 2, and 7) can you do it straight (i.e., deal with the firmware directly) or do I go through a supervisory driver? For going through supervisory drivers, will Apple publish the functions that a device driver can make upon the supervisory drivers supplied by Apple? The GS/OS manuals are "moot" on this last question. Thanks for the time, and many, many, many, thanks for the operating system (4.0 and 5.0)! Subj: Configuration Scripts 89-05-17 21:17:30 EST From: Coach101 Will 5.0 come with a _realeased and official_ configuration program for device drivers? Subj: Re: OS Speedups and ExpressLoad 89-05-17 22:01:57 EST From: Rob Turner Coach101, System 5.0 contains two supervisor drivers. One for SCSI and the other for the SCC chip. Documentation will be made available about interfacing with the new supervisor drivers. If you want to use the SCC chip you MUST use the supervisory driver or AppleTalk will not be happy. Rob Turner (GS/OS team member) Subj: Re: OS Speedups and ExpressLoad 89-05-18 20:13:05 EST From: Montagne Re: Slot Arbiter This is a function that we have planned for some time but there are many problems that have to be addressed. Previous Apple][ operating systems did not support character I/O so applications had to go directly to the slot resident firmware. Applications that employed copy protection also went directly to the firmware. Since direct access to the firmware was neccessary, there was no central point where dynamic slot switching could occur. This is not the case with GS/OS. Since GS/OS supports character I/O, all I/O should be through the operating system. You may have noticed that slot numbers are encoded in four bits so that the operating system can differentiate between internal and external slots. System 5.0 does not provide a dynamic slot switching capability at this time for several reasons which include..... 1. Some applications go directly to the firmware (either on their own or through the Miscellaneous Tools or Text Tools). For these applications, a static 7 slot environment must be maintained. 2. Application interrupt handlers need the same static slot assignment as the application. Again, a slot maintainance issue. We are investigating how to best deal with these issues. If we can maintain compatibility while providing a dynamic slot environment then you can look forward to using all 14 slots under GS/OS. You can help -- If you are writing an application, DO NOT USE THE TEXT TOOLS OR MISCELLANEOUS TOOLS TO ACCESS THE FIRMWARE AND DO NOT CALL THE FIRMWARE DIRECTLY YOURSELF. Use the operating system. If you must call the firmware directly, call the slot arbiter to select the desired slot (saving the previous slot configuration) and then restore the slot configuration after calling the firmware. This will be a passive function at this time but guarantees forward compatiblity. Calling the slot arbiter before the text tools is not guaranteed to work, besides, I/O under system 5.0 is faster than the text tools. NOTE: the slot arbiter call does provide additional functionallity in 5.0 so contact developer technical support for more information. Subj: Re: OS Speedups and ExpressLoad 89-05-18 20:32:05 EST From: Montagne Re: Configuration Scripts... No, there is no new functionality here. In fact it is not needed. Currently, no GS/OS driver implements configuration parameter lists. If a driver were written to support a configuration list then a CDEV or INIT could be written to configure or preconfigure the driver. An example of how this might work is as follows: Consider a serial port driver that has a configuration parameter list as follows... Baud Rate Parity Stop Bits Xon/Xoff Handshake etc... The current setting can be determined by issuing a D_STATUS call to the driver to obtain the current configuration parameters. These parameters can then be modified using a D_CONTROL call. The driver could be configured through the control panel if a CDEV were written to do so or the driver could be preconfigured on boot with an INIT. Finally, the drive could be configured by an application, thereby assuring that the drive is configured properly for the application and relieving the user of the burden of setting the driver up. Ray Subj: Re: OS Speedups and ExpressLoad 89-05-19 20:00:46 EST From: AFA Parik How exactly would we use GS/OS to write to the text screen? Is it a new call, or is it something in v4.0 already? Subj: Re: OS Speedups and ExpressLoad 89-05-19 21:59:23 EST From: Montagne The console driver from system 4.0 will also be available on 5.0. Some new features have been added and documentation should be available through APDA soon. All the console driver calls have been documented in GS/OS reference volume 2. System 5.0 has greatly improved the throughput of single character console I/O to the point that performance is better than the text tool set and is hardware independent. Ray Subj: Re: Console driver.. 89-05-20 22:09:32 EST From: DougMac Also the console driver supports much of the pascal old 80 column interface, such as text windows (something I needed to use). The console driver is much much faster than text tools. And much faster than even Paul Elseth's patches to text tools (can't live without them until everyone is console driver.) Under GS/OS, you just Open the file ".console" and read and write to it basically. A little tricky reading though. Still having problems with that. Oh well.. Subj: Re: OS Speedups and ExpressLoad 89-05-21 10:29:53 EST From: AFA Parik wow! faster than FASTEXT? WOW! Grr, now I want Orca or APW to support it...:) Subj: APW support for console driver 89-05-23 23:10:39 EST From: A2Pro Tim Parik, We've told the world repeatedly that we're revising APW to use GS/OS as it's basis... That should take care of your concern as to whether or not APW will support the console driver... :-) Tim Swihart APW Product Manager Subj: Re: OS Speedups and ExpressLoad 89-05-24 12:07:39 EST From: AFL Dyfet Tim, I hope this does not mean the ability to redirect standard I/O (as is done now through TextTools) will be lost. I think a better solution, especially for existing shell utilities, would be to point text tools to a 'ram resident' driver (which can be installed in place of specifying slot firmware), and then using this driver as a redirector to GS/OS devices and files (which is already being done for redirection to files alone in APW). Dyfet Subj: Re: Speculation.. 89-05-24 20:51:20 EST From: DougMac Well, this really doens't really belong here, but anyway, the way APW would have to work then is to physically set up the 3 vectors standardin, standardout, standardout, all initially pointing to a routine in APW that uses the console driver, but can be re-directed by anybody to their own routines, or to internal APW routines, such as redirection to a file, or to the printer, all using, of course, GS/OS.. Subj: Console Driver Speed 89-05-26 01:02:50 EST From: AndyBoy1 Regarding Console Driver Speed: The console driver itself was in itself much faster than text tools. The biggest problems were single character I/O and scrolling speed. Single Char I/O was not a console problem so much as a GS/OS problem. Call overhead has been greatly reduced to fix that problem. Scrolling has simply been re-written to be faster. The net result is that it is now faster than the text tools. --Andy Subj: Re: OS Speedups and ExpressLoad 89-05-26 19:58:15 EST From: Montagne Not only is the console driver faster, but the I/O redirection model in the operating system is much better than the text tools. The OS provides methods of I/O redirection without any slot dependencies while the text tools is inherently slot dependent. Further, the text tools can not be extended to be slot independent. We at Apple strongly recommend (and I mean strongly) that you do not use the text tools. The lack of ability to extend the text tools beyond it's current static 7 slot environment is a major roadblock to providing a dynamic slot environment where all 14 peripheral slots in the GS might be used. GS/OS on the other hand has been designed to provide applications with independence from the hardware. In fact, it is designed so that all 14 slots might be used. The only thing that is preventing us from providing this functionality is compatability issues with applications which call slot resident firmware directly (like copy protection schemes), or call slot resident firmware through the miscellaneous tools call FWENTRY or the TEXT TOOLS. Again, use GS/OS and DONT USE THE TEXT TOOLS. Ray Subj: RE: APW and the console driver 89-05-29 01:41:18 EST From: A2Pro Tim Yep, I/O redirection (stdin, stdout, stderr) will of course still be in the new APW, but we don't HAVE to use the TextTools to do that!!!! Like Ray said, Apple is _STRONGLY_ recommending the avoidance of the TextTools!!!! APW comes from Apple, so it'll follow that guidance. Obviously, compatibility with existing APW tools is a MAJOR issue, but we've got that under control as well. The whole I/O redirection issue should be transparent to the developers using APW - you simply type the same old familiar ">", "<", and ">&" and everything is taken care of for you by the shell... Tim S. (and since the console driver under 5.0 is FASTER than the TextTools, you'll get better throughput on top of all the other nice touches) Subj: Re: OS Speedups and ExpressLoad 89-05-29 09:51:40 EST From: AFA Parik Programs that use the texttools and are utilities under APW/Orca won't crash, will they? Or would they be speeded up? :) Subj: Re: OS Speedups 89-05-29 21:07:40 EST From: Montagne We have made no improvements to the text tools nor do we plan to. The text tools are independent of the operating system and as stated before force hardware dependencies upon applications using them. Applications using the text tools directly should be converted to use the operating system. Conversion is not mandatory, however it is encouraged lest we be stuck forever with 7 out of 14 slots inaccessable. Ray Subj: TextTools and APW utilities 89-05-31 00:05:59 EST From: A2Pro Tim If you're using an EXISTING utility, and it calls the TextTools, then it will continue to do so under the new APW (after all, we're redoing APW, not your utilities... ). Our own tools should be using the console driver in their next rev... It's up to third parties to redo their own tools to use the console driver instead of the TextTools. TextTools using utilities won't crash under the new shell, they just won't get the speed enhancements (because they'll still be using the TextTools). In the future, if TextTools go away, those utilities would "break", but that's independant of APW. Tim S. Subj: OS Speedups and ExpressLoad 89-06-09 15:28:57 EST From: ShrinkIt Ok, does anyone know which development tools still work when "expressed"?? Does anyone know the current ratio of what works VS what doesn't work once expressed? Does most everything still work or not? (ie, what is the success rate? Good or bad?) andy Subj: Re: ExpressLoad success 89-06-11 00:32:02 EST From: Rob Turner Andy, I have Expressed ALL the tools that I use (I do not use them all) and all of them have worked just fine. I have also Expressed APW, and languages, plus TML Pascal, Medley, AppleWorks.GS, ORCA, Prizm, MultiScribe, Draw Plus, AppleLink PE and a few more that I cannot think of right now. In general, any stand alone application, or load file will convert to ExpressLoad format with no problems. If you have any more questions let me know. Take Care... rob. PS. We have also Expressed the entire 5.0 system disk with any problems! Subj: Re: OS Speedups and ExpressLoad 89-06-11 17:38:02 EST From: ShrinkIt Sounds like most programs seem to have succeeded in executing when Expressed. Most of what you Expressed is what I would want converted, so that just about covers it... :-) andy Subj: Re: OS Speedups and ExpressLoad 89-06-11 21:24:48 EST From: TMH2 According to my understanding of what Express does, ANYTHING should work as long as it does not call the loader's LoadSegByNum call. That call has obvious disadvantages and would, in my opinion, be made only by programmers who are a bit old fashioned in their views on the proper way to write code. Z^\GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG\_ Z R Z T. Mike Howeth II N Z Dallas, Texas N Z (TMH2) V Z B Q ZO WVWVWVWVWVWVWVWVP_ Subj: Re: OS Speedups and ExpressLoad 89-06-11 23:40:42 EST From: Rob Turner Mike and Andy, ExpressLoad was designed to allow for FAST application loading. ExpressLoad does not support all the features that the standard system loader supports. For example, ExpressLoad does not support runtime libraries. As a general rule, ExpressLoad will work on any stand alone application. Also, ExpressLoad will work correctly if the caller uses LoadSegByNum. ExpressLoad converts the segment number to the new segment number. The problem comes in, when the user tries to run the program, under a system that does not have ExpressLoad installed. So, like Mike said, a programmer should NOT use LoadSegByNum, there are several better ways to load a segment. For example, LoadSegByName works great! Take Care... Rob Turner (GS/OS Team Member) Subj: Expressload Message 89-07-03 21:50:58 EST From: LanTech1 What does the expressload message mean when you press Control-Shift Option Open Apple on boot (I believe it is less than that, just never bothered figuring out which keys don't have to be held. When you do this, the Expressload title comes up in the "Welcome to the IIgs" box.??? Subj: ExpressLoad 89-07-04 08:51:53 EST From: AFL Floyd It simply means that ExpressLoad is being loaded. Hitting any key before the thermometer comes up gives you the text screen that lists all the portions of the OS that is loading. Floyd Subj: Re: OS Speedups and ExpressLoad 89-07-04 18:01:18 EST From: AFA Parik yeah, but it comes up in the graphic screen. a secret key! :) Subj: Thermometer 89-07-06 20:55:53 EST From: AFL Floyd Oh! I missed that about it coming up while the thermometer is visible. Floyd