Subj: The Resource Manager 89-05-11 23:48:35 EST From: AndyBoy1 Msgs: 33 (89-06-17) I'm starting this folder for discussions about the new 5.0 Resource Manager. I'll start by introducing some features and answering some of the "commonly asked questions" (it's what people were asking in Boston) What are Resources? A resource is a self-contained package of data in a standardized format. For example, icon resources each contain an icon in a special format. Each icon resource would contain a different icon but they must all be in the same format. There are system resources containing Apple-defined data structures such as windows or controls or DefProcs, and there are Application-defined resources containing anything the author wants. Resources live in the resource fork of any file, which is a separately maintained section of the file. A Resource Manager tool is provided which makes it very easy to load, modify, read and write any resources of any type. System Resources Many parts of the toolbox have been re-written to use resources. For example, you may put a window definition in a resource and NewWindow now understands a request to load "window resource #1234". It will automatically call the resource manager, load the requested resource (if found) and create the window using the template in the resource. Code Resources A code resource may be written which contains one segment of code. Since code needs relocation, you must first tell the resource manager that resources of given types must be processed. The way it works is that you when you issue the load resource call, the resource manager first loads the resource (containing OMF), then it calls the loader to create a relocated code segment. The resource manager the returns the address of the relocated runnable code. Note that this mechanism is implemented in a general manner and can be used for ANY resource which needs "processing" before it's useable. For example, pictures could be packed in the resource and automatically unpacked whenever loaded. How fast is it? The Mac resource manager has *problems* when large resource files are used. The IIGS resource manager is a 2nd generation design which shows little to no speed degradation when large numbers of resources are accessed. How can I create resources? You can do it from APW. I'm not an APW expert so I can't give you exact dates, but APW will have full support for the resources - a tool called "reziigs" will compile text definitions of resources, and "dereziigs" decompiles them. In addition, at AppleFest Boston, a company (I wish I could remember the name) was showing a REALLY COOL tool (not available till Sept) called "Genesys" which was an interactive interface toolkit that could output Pascal, C or Asm source, Rez source, or actual resources. Enough rambling. Questions? Subj: Re: The Resource Manager 89-05-12 20:33:35 EST From: AFA Parik I've run the demo's of Genesys and it looks could with its REZ formats. Now, for those of us who are idiots in the department of higher Macintosh learning (if there is any :) [just kidding!] why/how do we use resources? To use your example of pictures, ok, I pack a picture using _Packbytes ($c0 auxtype $0002) and such processing. I store it as a resource. Now, my program loads up the picture using the resource manager. why? whats so different between this and just storing it as a ... file...? (yup, you're looking at probably the last person on the face of the earth who don't learn no resources. : Subj: Re: Genesys 89-05-12 23:42:10 EST From: PElseth The _person_ showing Genesys was Michael Hackney, I believe of SSSI. I've talked to him a little about the program, and it sounds great! Subj: Why resources? 89-05-16 02:09:24 EST From: AndyBoy1 To understand the reasons behind resources let's try a better example. Say you have a program with 10 different dialogs. In pascal, you'd have to write code with many, many calls to NewDItem(...) NewDItem(...) etc. This takes up mucho room in RAM and on disk. If you put them in a resource, it's just data and you can call NewWindow2 directly with a resource #. In addition, because the resource format is so standardized, programs like Genesys can exist which can always edit your dialog, etc. --Andy Subj: Re: The Resource Manager 89-05-16 18:39:30 EST From: BCS Al I'm assuming that now that the IIgs supports resources, that would mean that text would be kept in the resource fork, so that it could be edited independently of the program. So, if you write a program in English, and you want a Spanish version, just edit the resources, and you can have a Spanish version of the program with no recompiling of the program, atleast in theory. Subj: Yet another good reason 89-05-16 20:17:06 EST From: JimMensch changing / localizing text in an application is one very popular use of resources. But as a programmer I can give you some better reasons to use them. Lets say you have a window that is your about box (this is just an example ...) when the user picks about, you call the NewWindow2 call with the ID of your about window, which will bring up the window and all associated controls with it.. (pretty slick...) Now, when the user is done and closes the about box, you release all the resources with the proper call and they get set purgeable. Now, the system may or maynot kick them out of memory. The next time that you call newwindow2 withe the about box ID the resource manager will either locate the data that was used the last time in memory, or, if that data has been purged for some reason, it will reload it from disk, all this groovy memory management without any extra work on your part... Mensch Subj: Rez & DeRez 89-05-16 23:57:19 EST From: A2Pro Tim At AppleFest, we were telling those who asked that Rez & DeRez for APW would be available this Summer - 5.0 has to ship first, but we're working to have the new APW Tools out as quickly behind 5.0 as possible!!! Tim Swihart APW Product Manager Subj: Re: The Resource Manager 89-05-17 20:38:03 EST From: Da Gibber Ok...My 2 cents What is the price of the Update ::Grimmace:: for APW.... I am running with version 1.0.2. and hope that this one will be a complete GS/OS application. AFC Gibber Subj: Re: The Resource Manager 89-05-19 00:06:22 EST From: SkySinger Genesys is put out by Simple Software Systems International. Address: 4612 North Landing Drive Marietta, GA 30066 (404) 928-4388 Looks great. In addition to creating or editing resources, the program is supposed to let you "draw" much of your program. It generates the code (in whatever language you're using) for menus, windows, dialogs, alerts, controls, icons, and cursors. It also automates the process of starting up the tools, running the event loop and handling menu selections without your having to write any code for these operations. Subj: APW update price... 89-05-19 02:46:17 EST From: A2Pro Tim The price for the update hasn't been set yet, but it will be similar to the historical update prices... We always try to give the folks who bought a previous version a break when the new one comes out... Tim Swihart APW Product Manager Subj: Re: The Resource Manager 89-05-19 20:02:07 EST From: AFA Parik Are you guys (APW dudes ;) giving ByteWorks all the utilities and such you make? For us Orca lovers anyways... Subj: Re: Posting files w/resources 89-05-20 15:39:34 EST From: PElseth Does the current version of ACU support resource forks in files? If not, will a future version? We had better get a way to upload files with resources pretty soon, or there will be major problems. --Paul Elseth Subj: Re: Uploading files w/ resources 89-05-20 17:53:57 EST From: BCS Al ACU doesn't handle forked files. The IIgs version of ShrinkIt will be able to put forked files into a NuFX archive, which can be uploaded to AppleLink Personal Edition. Subj: Re: The Resource Manager 89-05-20 19:18:02 EST From: ShrinkIt The next version of ShrinkIt (for the IIgs) will fully support resources, but, unfortunately, I *NEED* System 5.0 to test the beast properly (I trashed my HD completely twice while trying to handle resources... momma, this is not fun. -- Someone told me not to, but I didn't listen.. ;-) I don't have System 5.0, therefore, it might be a while before I have something proper to show. (some other archiver authors don't have this problem.. :-) IIe ShrinkIt will create an AppleSingle file if it is passed a NuFX record which contains resources. (not in v2.02, though.. I need a GS/Shrinkit that will create those records before I can test _that_ -- quite a quandrary, eh?) andy Subj: Re: The Resource Manager 89-05-20 19:23:23 EST From: ShrinkIt Uh, al, *NO*. Applelink does not support NuFX archives or ShrinkIt. ACU is the standard archive utility for AppleLink Personal Edition. Please use ACU, and *NOT* Shrinkit. andy Subj: Re: The Resource Manager 89-05-21 00:28:18 EST From: JoshThomps Ahh well, if you think that's bad, I've been using GS/OS calls very well, and all I started with was the data file from Nifty List! I've also picked up a lot from the tech notes and AppleLink messages. I have to get a darn APDA subscription sometime soon. Don't feel bad, I have System 5.0, and I still can't use it...at least not yet. I'm an enquiring mind, I wanna know, and I'll have everything hacked out by the time it's officially released. Subj: Re: The Resource Manager 89-05-21 03:20:30 EST From: ShrinkIt Well, quite frankly, Josh, since you have 5.0, and you obviously have a pirated copy, if anything should "happen" to your HD, as was posted by Jim Mensch for the unstable 5.0 version -- not alot of us are going to have much pity. Sometimes that really irritates me that someone can basically steal a newer version of system software and possibly get some benefit when some other people I know are trying very legitimately to write decent and useful and timely software for the IIgs _without_ such wonderful toys, not just "hacking around." -- yes, I mean me! Grrrr... :-( andy Subj: Re: The Resource Manager 89-05-21 10:23:59 EST From: AFA Parik Andy, Call Apple! [literally, not the mag :)] jeez, you're a certified developer, i'm sure if you explain the situation you're likely to at least get on some waiting list. I doubt complaining here is gonna do any good. :) Evangalists are good people to start with, a guy named Ford (I think) is a really cool guy there. Subj: Re: Uploading files w/ resources 89-05-21 21:08:10 EST From: BCS Al I didn't mean to imply that people shouldn't use ACU for AppleLink files. ACU is, after all, the standard archiving program for AppleLink Personal Edition. However, I had an eye toward the future. I'm assuming (perhaps I'm wrong) that ACU doesn't support forked files. If it doesn't, how will we upload such files? I realize that Apple has defined a format (AppleSingle and AppleDouble) for dealing with forked files on file systems that don't support them. Does ACU support this format? If it does, we are all set. But if it doesn't, when will it? And what to do in the meanwhile? Just asking..... I hope that this is a non-issue. Thanks for any info. Al Subj: ACU 89-05-21 23:34:30 EST From: AFL Floyd ACU's archive format (like NuFX) supports resource forks. Of course, the 8-bit version of ACU can't handle resource forks, but the GS SHR (System Disk 5.0 required) version will. Floyd Subj: Testing resource fork applicatio 89-05-22 21:02:20 EST From: Dave Lyons I don't understand the problem...there's nothing stopping anybody from testing their pack/unpack/whatever applications with resource forks under System Disk 4.0. It's just that the format of the data you're supposed to put into the resource fork wasn't defined then. That doesn't stop you from cramming a bunch of test data into a resource fork & seeing if you can copy/pack/unpack it properly. Subj: Re: The Resource Manager 89-05-23 20:32:47 EST From: JoshThomps Don't worry Andy...the only hard drive I have is a 5-meg ProFile I borrowed from my school...and it's got the old ROM so GS/OS hates it anyways. Subj: Re: The Resource Manager 89-05-23 20:34:44 EST From: JoshThomps That's easy...but of course any good application needs to use the Resource Manager, which is of course on 5.0 only. Subj: Re: Uploads w/resources 89-05-25 00:05:22 EST From: PElseth Well, at least that generated some discussion...but no real answers... Subj: Re: The Resource Manager 89-05-25 10:06:38 EST From: ShrinkIt Just curious Dave, then why has everyone who has System 5.0 beta documentation that I've asked about this problem said that I shouldn't be fooling with the resources until 5.0 comes out because 4.0 is dangerous, hmmm? And its more than 3 people that have told me this. It only confirms my suspiscions that there was some sort of bug someplace in the usage of resource forks. I'd suggest you go read over the beta docs and bug reports for 5.0 again and see if you can find what I'm talking about. I can't duplicate the problem, nor do i want to. corrupting my hard drive is not something I plan to try every day to help Apple fix a bug. Sorry. andy Subj: Resource Forks, Uploading 89-05-26 00:56:58 EST From: AndyBoy1 Josh, I'd have to agree with Dave on this one. A well-written may or may not use the resource manager, but for the specific purpose of archiving you -don't- want to use the resource manager. It is much faster & simpler & less error-prone to simply open the fork and stream those bytes. Andy (ShrinkIt), The resource fork wasn't any buggier than any other part of the system. We knew all along that we were going to do a resource manager, and we wanted to make sure that people didn't start using the fork because we knew they'd get burned on this release. --Andy --Apple II System Software P.S. It's getting close now ! Subj: Re: "getting close now" 89-05-27 00:17:16 EST From: TMH2 (These comments do not belong here, but seeing the promise that it's "getting close now" prompted them) Fine. Release it. We've waited an unreasonable length of time for this machine to live up to its potential as 1)an application machine 2) a development machine 3)the machine it is passed off to be. Right now, it is none of the above. I'm tired of attempting serious development on such underpowered hardware, because it's so disappointing to see fine software trudge along on this box. If 5.0 will help, GIVE IT TO US. If it won't, give us a faster IIGS. We've been patient, but we're using a GS which is all dressed up with no place to go. Z^\GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG\_ Z R Z T. Mike Howeth II N Z Dallas, Texas N Z (TMH2) V Z B Q ZO WVWVWVWVWVWVWVWVP_ Subj: Re: The Resource Manager 89-05-28 09:28:07 EST From: A GibberFC To Tim: Lay off.... I for one would rather see a pretty bug free version of 5.0 instead of, for example, 6.0 for the Mac... so far there has been 6.0, 6.0.1, 6.0.2, 6.0.3, and now 6.0.4... So far I have had no less than 7 crashed hard disks that have been attributed to system 5.0 in its present state. All of the system software was pirated. Right now system 5.0 is like a good looking Hooker.... nice to play with... nice to watch...but don't put it in...you might get something you don't want.... Yes I want a faster //gs... I want the system 5.0 to have been released 6 months ago...but for crying out loud let them get the bugs out of it... I don't want my Hard drive killed because Apple rushed the thing. I have owned Apple computers for over 9 years... I am a very vocal supporter of Apple; however I am a very vocal when it comes to things that I don't think are right... Yes We need a faster //gs.... Yes we need system software... Apple needs to wake up and listen to the 50 million Apple // owners... A lot of us don't want a MAC. Apple, I feel, has given us the short end of the stick for over 3 years... but that was the price we had to pay so that the Mac could get into business. If the Mac didn't get into business then you probably would be remembering Apple computer because I don't think that they would have recovered from the Lisa or Apple /// bust. Yes.. the Apple //gs is underpowered... However if you look it has been in the last year that Applied Engineering has been able to get the thing up to 7. Apple computer is one company... We are one community...I support development for the Mac...and now with System 5.0 I see Apple giving back so of what was taken from us 3 years ago...Mainly Attention. Now that the Mac is firmly entrenched as a business Machine, Apple computer... it is time you spent time with your Older Child. The Apple //gs is a good machine..but it could do so much more :::::Getting off my Soapbox:::::: AFC Gibber Subj: Re: Soapboxes 89-05-28 21:51:29 EST From: TMH2 First of all, I agree with everything you've said, and I'm disappointed in Apple for those exact reasons. I too have been an Apple owner & programmer for about 9 years and have seen, as we all have, resources for the II line dwindle to the point that we are grateful for an otherwise astounding machine which is blown out of the water by everything else on the market. (I, of course, do not mean "everything" literally). Second, my name is not Tim. Z^\GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG\_ Z R Z T. Mike Howeth II N Z Dallas, Texas N Z (TMH2) V Z B Q ZO WVWVWVWVWVWVWVWVP_ Subj: Re: Waiting for 5.0 89-05-29 00:45:15 EST From: PElseth Seems to me that a couple of months is a reasonable wait for a relatively bug-free release. An early release of buggy software (_especially_ system software) is never smart - you just end up looking bad and alienating people. 5.0 is worth the short wait. Subj: He's not Tim... 89-05-29 01:37:54 EST From: A2Pro Tim Gibber - were you "yelling" at T.Mike or me? I'm Tim, but I wasn't down on the new software. T.Mike was down on it not being ready yet (but not on it's features), but he's not Tim... Tim S. Subj: Re: The Resource Manager 89-05-29 12:54:17 EST From: A GibberFC Actually I was Preaching....heheh and sorry.. I think I posted that while I was sick and was half drugged and asleep... That post was directed at T. Mike... Somehow the T stuck in my mind. Anyway... I understand all of what you said Mike. It is just that when I see Apple on the right track (for a change) I want it to be the best it can be.... I have seen a great machine lose market to the Amiga and Atari....That cannot continue. If I offended I am very sorry... John aka Gibber Subj: Re: The Resource Manager 89-06-17 15:04:56 EST From: HyperRam How does TMH2 do those dialog boxes in the letters? :) Subj: Questions about Resource Forks 89-07-30 13:31:38 EST From: GuS Grafix Msgs: 32 (89-08-17) Ok, I give up! Can anybody tell me which files on 5.0 actually contain Resource Forks and which don't? I've heard that only the CDEVs contain resources at present, but I really have no way of telling if this is correct or not. Also, it's my understanding that Finder file copying files that contain resources is a no-no. Is this true? [ I know that disk-to-disk copying is OK, based on a message from A2ProTim (Tim Swihart) elsewhere. ] Tim? Anyone else? Can you help clarify this? Thanks. Marian Subj: Re: Questions about Resource For 89-07-30 13:40:53 EST From: JSchober SYS.RESOURCES also contains resources, for some silly reason... ;) No! Finder 1.3 =can= copy resource files, just fine!! But Finder 1.2 won't, P8 utilities won't, and most P16 utilities won't. ProSEL/16 will. Confused, now?? Subj: Not confused :-) 89-07-30 14:27:16 EST From: GuS Grafix Joe, Actually, that clarifies a LOT, Joe. It made no sense to me that Finder 1.3 would =not= be designed to take into account the copying of resources. I'm glad to hear that THAT particular rumor/innuendo is false :))) And one wouldn't necessarily expect Finder 1.2 to handle them, since Finder 1.2 pre-dates System 5.0. It all makes sense to me. Thanks, Joe! Marian Subj: Re: Questions about Resource For 89-07-30 14:31:59 EST From: HyperRam What's a resource fork? Ram Subj: Which files have resource forks 89-07-30 23:05:59 EST From: A2Pro Tim Marian, Off the top of my head, I don't recall which parts of the System Disk have resource forks and which ones don't. I know CDevs do (they're nothing but resources forks - no data forks at all), and I'm sure a few other parts do too (chances are good that the Control Panel NDA does...). It really should NOT matter to the average end user whether there's a resource fork or not. The intent was to make it invisible to the user. Resources are really a benefit to developers (in my opinion), although there will no doubt be a bunch of user-related uses for resources in the future. The Finder that comes with 5.0 (version 1.3) CAN copy resource forks just fine. Tim S. Subj: Re: Questions about Resource For 89-07-30 23:33:56 EST From: JoshThomps To my knowledge, resource forks exist on: all CDevs, the Control Panel NDA, and the file SYS.RESOURCES in the system setup directory. That's it as far as I know. I wonder who started the rumor that 1.3 won't copy resources forks? Subj: Re: Questions about Resource For 89-07-31 10:22:45 EST From: AFA Parik Could a program have a font in its data fork and then use the font? Or must the font reside in the */SYSTEM/FONTS subdirectory? It would make it a lot easier for programs that need certain fonts, as I tend to forget to copy the font into the system folder. :) Subj: Re: Questions about Resource For 89-07-31 15:10:55 EST From: GuS Grafix Thanks, Tim :) Marian Subj: Re: Questions about Resource For 89-07-31 21:12:40 EST From: A GibberFC It would be pretty stupid for apple to release a finder that COULDN'T HANDLE RESOURCE FORKS... And I don't think Apple is that stupid Subj: Re: Questions about Resource For 89-07-31 21:47:31 EST From: JSchober To add to Parik's question, kinda... Does Finder 1.3 have provisions for putting an application's icon in a resource of that file, like on the Mac? It would make things easier for the end-user than having to copy two files (application + icon), or to be stuck with a boring Finder... ;) To HyperRam (I think): A resource is most concisely defined as a datafile. I think that's the simplest way to put it. A forked file is simply one with both a data fork (what you're used to) and a resource fork. It's like two files merged under one filename. --Joey Subj: Icons and resource forks 89-07-31 23:33:58 EST From: AFL Floyd There are no provisions in Finder 1.3 for application icons in resource forks. All Finder icons need to be in icon files separate from the applications. What is probably confusing to some people is that you can have icons in resource forks, but these icons are for use within the application itself and are not read by the Finder. Floyd Subj: fonts in resources? 89-08-01 20:56:00 EST From: Dave Lyons For the Font Manager to know about a font automatically when you start it up, the font has to be in */System/Fonts. But there's nothing stopping an application from having a font in, say, a resource in its own resource fork, and telling the Font Manager about the font after startup. (Or just loading the font & telling QuickDraw to use it--no problem.) Subj: Re: Questions about Resource For 89-08-03 09:36:06 EST From: Matt DTS The rumor that the Finder doesn't handle resource files probably came from our repeated attempts to get people to quit using the Finder *instead* of the Installer. Finder handles extended (resource) files just fine, but when trying to get things from the Apple-supplied floppies onto some other disk, USE THE INSTALLER. ALWAYS. --Matt Subj: Re: Questions about Resource For 89-08-03 23:29:45 EST From: GuS Grafix Any special reason why, Matt? (and thanks for the advice :) Marian Subj: Re: Questions about Resource For 89-08-04 12:14:41 EST From: JSchober I can venture a guess, Marian, though heaven forbid that I'd ever contradict Matt. ;) Simply this: If you forget to delete ANYTHING from System 4.0, or if you forget to copy over ANYTHING from System 5.0 to your older disks, you're gonna have a mixed-4.0-and-5.0 OS, or an incomplete OS, and either way, you're gonna get oodles of problems. Letting Installer do the copy insures that everything gets where it's going. Saves DTS millions of hours on the phone diagnosing problems if they can be sure that you're not using START.GS.OS from 4.0 on an otherwise 5.0 disk... ;) --Joey Subj: Re: Questions about Resource For 89-08-04 14:47:15 EST From: GuS Grafix Ok, that makes sense, Joe. I was trying to relate Matt's comments to the circumstances I usually work under--which is to say, I completely RE-format my startup volume (usually /AEROM ) before installing a new system on it... and, yes, I _do_ use the installer, but I'm never sure whether I really have to in such a case. Matt? Marian Subj: Re: P8 Respurce Compatibility 89-08-04 21:10:06 EST From: GGrant Hmmm... If P8 can't handle copying resources, does that mean that ACU and BLU will be unable to pack GS/OS 5.0 16-bit applications with resource forks??? Subj: Re: Questions about Resource For 89-08-05 01:26:09 EST From: JoshThomps Don't worry...Andy's working on ShrinkIT/GS, and I'm working on my packer NuPak ][gs...so in a month or two packing resources to NuFX will be no problem. ANd I forgot to mention Floyd's new ACU and BLU II stuff which should be out Any Day Now, right Floyd? Subj: About the Installer 89-08-05 10:56:18 EST From: Matt DTS There are several reasons, Marian: 1) The relationship between files is not always documented extremely well, and misunderstanding what you need and what you don't can cause big problems. The revision to GS/OS Technical Note #1 should help this situation, but the text file versions aren't completed yet. But you don't *have* to worry about it; just use the Installer and a minimum configuration will be installed (you can choose a minimum configuration without the Finder if you really want). Then add the extra pieces you need. The only thing which might *possibly* be superflous that the Installer will install is the Apple 3.5 Drive driver, which you can then deactivate from the Finder. 2) Not all programs copy resource forks correctly. The Finder will (again, if you know ALL the files that should be copied or removed), and I've heard ProSEL 16 will, but Copy II Plus will *not* and won't give you an error (it just does it wrong. "Oh, it's not a tree file, it's not a sapling file - it must be a seedling file!" Wrong...it's a new extended file). The lack of resource forks implies a lack of system resources that makes some of the desktop tools quite unhappy (the Control Panel NDA, for one). 3) Using the Installer is easier than any other method. If you only have one drive, there will be some disk swapping, but you can install twice - install the minimum files on your hard drive, then reboot from it and install anything else you need or want. If you have a two drive system, just use the Shift and Open-Apple keys to select all the things you want (the Installer now lets you pick more than one script at a time) and Install them all. Also note that the disk configuration has significantly changed. MIDI stuff is no longer on :System.Disk, for example; if you want any MIDI tools or drivers, you *must* install them or you won't get the toolset. Similarly with the VideoMix toolset (for the VOC, new to the System Software); you have to *install* it or you probably won't notice there's a VOC init in the System.Setup folder that should be copied as well. It will save all of you and all of us a lot of time if you use the Installer *first*. There will still be some people who have problems even with a properly-Installed copy, but not as many as those who just installed it the wrong way. --Matt Subj: About Resource Forks 89-08-05 11:05:00 EST From: Matt DTS Please remember that extended files (with resource forks) were introduced on *4.0*. It's just that they weren't widely used until now, since there was no Resource Manager and the fork's format was reserved by Apple. We have been working for *months* to properly insure that packing programs will be able to handle extended files when they have to deal with ProDOS 8. I refer to the following Technical and File Type Notes: FT $E0/$0001 - AppleSingle format (used by Binary II for extended files) FT $E0/$0002 & $0003 - AppleDouble format (an alternative to AppleSingle for archivers or telecom programs) FT $E0/$8000 - Binary II (including specs to handle GS/OS-specific considerations, like extended files) FT $E0/$8002 - NuFX (which ShrinkIt uses; NuFX includes support for extended files) Miscellaneous Technical Note #14 - Guidelines for Telecommunications Programs (talks about some of these considerations). We've documented well how P8 people can handle extended files. I would hope anyone writing a utility to deal with transferring files would heed these notes and not do it in an incompatible, unsupported way. It's hard enough to find standards in this world; let's use the ones we've got. --Matt Subj: ACU format 89-08-05 12:47:00 EST From: AFL Floyd Thanks a lot, Matt. You forgot FT $E0/$8001 which is ACU's archive format that supports resource forks. Floyd Subj: Re: Questions about Resource For 89-08-05 15:44:46 EST From: GuS Grafix Matt, Thanks a million for clarifying in detail the reasons for using the Installer. That helped a *lot* ! Marian Subj: Re: Questions about Resource For 89-08-05 19:59:10 EST From: JoshThomps I see you're pushing to colons as the standard seperator there, ay Matt? I personally love the colons...just like HFS. Subj: Re: Inactivating AppleDisk3.5 89-08-05 23:39:03 EST From: Montagne Excuuuuuusssse meeeeee !!!!!! Matt, let me qualify the statement you made about inactivating the AppleDisk3.5 driver. This can only be done IF YOU DONT HAVE AN APPLEDISK3.5 DRIVE! Further, the UniDisk3.5 driver is mandatory if you have a UniDisk3.5 and the SCSI driver is mandatory if you have the Apple SCSI Card (which requires rom revision C - provided through Apple Dealers at no cost). These drivers can only be inactivated if you don't have these devices connected to your system - no exceptions. Ray (GS/OS Team) Subj: Re: ":" 89-08-05 23:46:10 EST From: Montagne Boy! Ya just can't fool all the people all the time, can ya? Subj: Apple Disk 3.5 -> 5.25 89-08-06 10:40:50 EST From: AFA Parik I think Matt meant the 5.25 can be de-activated if you never use the suckers. Subj: SCSI driver 89-08-07 00:24:44 EST From: JSchober Ray, Uhh... the SCSI driver =must= be there if you have a SCSI card?? When I first installed System 5.0 onto my hard disk (using Installer), I forgot to install the SCSI HD drivers. Rebooted off the hard disk, got a nice GS/OS system dialog (on the TEXT screen... geez, how primitive ;) telling me that I should install the SCSI driver, and then went into ProSEL/16 (my START file). Listed devices, and I had something like .DEV1 through .DEV9, all of which worked perfectly, tho not as fast as with the SCSI driver. Seems like it CAN be done, just that it's not taking advantage of the system. Or would it have start munching my hard disks and spitting out the bones if I hadn't installed the SCSI driver? --Joe :) Subj: Installer 89-08-07 22:34:50 EST From: John moyln ...or you could just erase the disk and do a disk-to-disk copy, almost as quick if you are only making a backup of sys 5 system disk... Subj: Re: About SCSI 89-08-07 22:50:41 EST From: Montagne Yep, you gotta install it just like the dialog says. We wanted the system to be bootable even if your system disk is not configured correctly so that you have the oportunity to configure it correctly. That's why you can boot off an AppleDisk3.5, UniDisk3.5 or SCSI without the loaded driver but... The operating system needs the loaded driver because of limitations of the firmware based drivers for these devices. A generated driver always uses existing firmware and will inherit the characteristics of the firwmare driver. What's at risk is that the operating system may not be able to properly maintain internal data structures with a generated driver when a loaded driver is requires. To help prevent any problems, the generated driver for the AppleDisk3.5, UniDisk3.5 and SCSI drivers do not support multiple devices or caching. This does not mean that you should ignor the dialog that instructed you to install the driver. Please..Please.. install the driver. You're not just buying speed, you're buying safety. Ray (GS/OS Team) Subj: Various things 89-08-10 21:39:11 EST From: Matt DTS Ray: Didn't I say that? I was at least thinking it. The bottom line is that you can deactivate any drivers you have in the system folder for peripherals you don't have. If you get a text-screen alert saying you need the XX driver, you've deactivated the wrong one. Floyd: I don't know about ACU. The others are all published, defined formats anyone can use. ACU's format is private and unpublished as far as I'm concerned, and that doesn't let other people use ACU files. Joey: As my friend Ray says, you get one generated driver with no caching if you boot off the device that doesn't have the driver. For example, if you boot off a SCSI device with no driver, you get a slow driver for *only* the partition you booted from, not for any others. It would be safer to not generate any drivers, but then it would be quite difficult to install the system. :) --Matt Subj: ACU's format 89-08-16 22:55:50 EST From: AFL Floyd ACU's file format is public and published. That's how Andy added ACU support in ShrinkIT. :) The format is here somewhere in ADV and in the "ACU Support" area of the AUT forum. To be honest, I don't remember if I sent the format to AIIDTS when I requested the filetype/auxtype combo or not. Floyd Subj: Re: Questions about Resource For 89-08-17 20:43:40 EST From: Matt DTS I remember. You didn't. :) If you send it in, we'll publish it. --Matt